The Dark Knight Rises Roven: Joker Could Return

[StorminNorman]

How was TDK all about Bruce and Dent? The Joker had more screen time than Harvey.

TDK revolved around the Joker. It was a Joker movie. Two Face was simply a part of the Joker's plan, not the focal point of the movie.

I want the Joker to return to film, but I think there are better options than making him a focal point of Batman 3. I would rather see Batman take on multiple baddies, a real criminal world of freaks.

 

[KalMart]

I thought it was more about Dent, Gordon and Joker than Batman, really, in terms of carrying the narrative.

 

[evilskillz]

I thought Nolan denied all the reports that Two-Face story was supposed to span two movies. Hm.

Anyway, Joker is vital for Batman 3. Like Ace said, Batman completes Joker. as long as Batman's story isn't done, neither is Joker's.

We also need a big confrontation between the two. TDK ended with Joker kicking Batman's ass and then Batman going off to try and calm down Two-Face. We need a movie where Batman and Joker are beating the crap out of each other, without Batman needing to run off and fight some other villain while the Joker just hangs from a wire.

TDK was all about Bruce and Dent, Batman 3 needs to be all about Batman and Joker.

Yeah I totally disagree here. The Dark Knight was mostly about Batman and Joker than anything else. It was also a Harvey Dent/Two Face story but he was mostly used to carry the emotional weight of the story. He brought in a lot of the themes of the film: how close any man is to evil, what is real and what is seen from the public's view, the hope in people and society, and how choices ultimately make your fate, and I'm sure many others. But character wise, "The Dark Knight" was all about the Joker and Batman.

I don't think we need a big confrontation in batman 3, and I don't think we would have needed that even if Heath was still alive. I still think that last scene with him hanging from a wire is better and has more depth than a possible alternative...them kicking the crap out of each other till one dies or is unconsious. That's how most action movies do it, that wouldn't have worked in Nolan's crime epic. They summed up the great balance between the two better than any characters I can remember on screen. I don't think it can be explored any futher from a philosophical level. Which is a lot more interesting than a fight scene for me.

Sure you could of had Joker as part of the madness in the next film, but I don't think you needed to go that way. The third movie should be more about batman and his inner struggles and who he wants to be going forward. It shouldn't be about the Joker and Batman, we just had that movie.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

How was TDK all about Bruce and Dent? The Joker had more screen time than Harvey.

TDK revolved around the Joker. It was a Joker movie. Two Face was simply a part of the Joker's plan, not the focal point of the movie.

I want the Joker to return to film, but I think there are better options than making him a focal point of Batman 3. I would rather see Batman take on multiple baddies, a real criminal world of freaks.

I'm dying to see The Joker return as well (I had an odd dream last night that I saw Batman 3, and it featured The Joker ), and I think the best way to do it is to leave him out of most of the movie, but have him return at the end as the controlling factor in the entire movie's conflict.

I.e, he controlled The Riddler or Black Mask (obviously, there would have to be clues that link to The Joker that viewers could only truly figure out once The Joker appears at the end of the movie), use Harley Quinn as a decoy to the audience so we think we know that The Joker has presence in the movie and what he is really doing (and we don't- and I'd like it even more if once Harley is taken down, we find out The Joker had no presence whatsoever in what she was doing... This would arguably make the revelation that he was behind The Riddler or Black Mask the entire time that much more shocking). I've read numerous comics where The Joker believes Gotham to be his city (especially on the abominable Hush Returns), and I think that should play a factor in the third film.

 

[CJ]

Nolan said before that Harvey Dent was the backbone of the story. Not to mention, Batman and Joker's final confrontation was cut short because Batman had to try and talk sense into Dent. Then we never see Joker for the rest of the film.

I want Joker to be the backbone of Batman 3, and I don't want Batman to have to run off and encounter another villain while he's having his final battle with the Joker.

The Batman/Joker fight was pretty lame in my opinon. It was just the Joker beating Batman with a pipe, while constantly cutting away to people on the ferries going 'should i push the button?' 'give it to me! Grrrr' 'hmmm i have the remote, should i use it?'

Batman only got lucky in the end with his armblades, and I really REALLY didn't buy the fact that a stupid pipe would be able to keep Batman down. He's wearing heavy armor. Not to mention Bruce Wayne is a pretty buff guy, whilst the Joker is really scrawny. Joker defintely has the mental/psychological edge on Batman, but not with brute strength. In a hand-to-hand battle, Batman would beat Joker to a pulp.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Nolan said before that Harvey Dent was the backbone of the story. Not to mention, Batman and Joker's final confrontation was cut short because Batman had to try and talk sense into Dent. Then we never see Joker for the rest of the film.

I want Joker to be the backbone of Batman 3, and I don't want Batman to have to run off and encounter another villain while he's having his final battle with the Joker.

... Batman's fight was over. What was he gonna do, untie him and go for round 2?

The Batman/Joker fight was pretty lame in my opinon. It was just the Joker beating Batman with a pipe, while constantly cutting away to people on the ferries going 'should i push the button?' 'give it to me! Grrrr' 'hmmm i have the remote, should i use it?'

Batman only got lucky in the end with his armblades, and I really REALLY didn't buy the fact that a stupid pipe would be able to keep Batman down. He's wearing heavy armor. Not to mention Bruce Wayne is a pretty buff guy, whilst the Joker is really scrawny. Joker defintely has the mental/psychological edge on Batman, but not with brute strength. In a hand-to-hand battle, Batman would beat Joker to a pulp.

[/quote]

Heavy armor isn't going to stop a trap. He was trapped in by three pipes, if I remember correctly. With the way they were aligned, I think it made it pretty easy to tell that all it takes is a small amount of weight to keep them there, if that at all. The reason Joker beat Batman down so badly was because of his surprise attacks and dirty tactics. Batman let The Joker's dogs distract him, while Joker sneaked and and began wailing on him with a pipe. There's not many people I know that can recover easily from being caught in a net and having some lunatic with a lead pipe beat the living tar out of you. I agree, the fight was a tad anti-climactic, but I wouldn't call it far-fetched in the slightest, regardless of Batman's skill level.

 

[TheBatman072]

Haha. Jesus. Anti-climactic? Really? Do you people want ALL the fights between Batman and Joker to be like the Bat-Pod/18 Wheeler fight?

I think you completely missed the whole point of that entire scene by wanting more "teh Batman and Joker fight to the deathz!1!" That entire scene was so much better cerebral than physical.

Come on people. You want non-stop dumb action and people beating the **** out of each other, go watch a Michael Bay movie.

 

[evilskillz]

Haha. Jesus. Anti-climactic? Really? Do you people want ALL the fights between Batman and Joker to be like the Bat-Pod/18 Wheeler fight?

I think you completely missed the whole point of that entire scene by wanting more "teh Batman and Joker fight to the deathz!1!" That entire scene was so much better cerebral than physical.

Come on people. You want non-stop dumb action and people beating the **** out of each other, go watch a Michael Bay movie.

This is why most people like Iron man and 300. Not good movies but most people want dumb action. I'm glad Nolan is different, it's refreshing. I think Batman and the Joker had one of the better & more interesting confrontations in movie history. And the great thing is, they had a few encounters throughout the film which made the last scene with Joker hanging even better.

I don't believe you could go any further with the joker as far as his relationship with Batman. I think that was covered as well as it can. That's what made "The Dark Knight" so good, it wasn't about beating the crap out of each other.

 

[MercuryEnigma]

And Joseph Gordon Levitt should take over.

The only reason I'm waiting to see GI Joe is to see if the kid can make a good sinister villain. Other than that the movie's gonna be complete crap.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Na I think if there is to be a Joker re-cast it should be Bettany.

Only if he gets to delve into the character in the same way Heath did. Make it a really personal portrayal. I think Bettany could create something really interesting and evil, I just think he has it in him.

And as we know, there is theories that have been about for years that Joker alters his personality slightly each time he is locked away. I think it could be quite unique to do it that way. I mean, I don't think you can say Joker is a one note personality, he is all over the place, mentally.

 

[Arkham_Assassin]

Holy crap... I completely agree with this picture.. JGL playing the Joker? It could work. But that aside, the possibility of joker coming back, the story I would like to see is harley quinn breaking him out. Indeed if that would have been a story she may have needed to be "secretly" I guess introduced in TDK as a "stalker" type girl collecting all newspaper articles and pictures of him and everything. that woulda been cool. Either way Nolan set this film up for a sequel no mattert how you look at it, and to say "Well the story ould have to be right and blah" is kinda shady cause that is something that should have been thought out when writing the ending to TDK. That's my opinion. Anyone help me out ehre?

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Haha. Jesus. Anti-climactic? Really? Do you people want ALL the fights between Batman and Joker to be like the Bat-Pod/18 Wheeler fight?

I think you completely missed the whole point of that entire scene by wanting more "teh Batman and Joker fight to the deathz!1!" That entire scene was so much better cerebral than physical.

Come on people. You want non-stop dumb action and people beating the **** out of each other, go watch a Michael Bay movie.

... Dude, I mentioned the fight, that was it. I made no mention of the rest of the scene. I thought the scene was incredible, but the fight alone was a bit of a lackluster. It was a two-minute fight that included The Joker wailing on Batman with a lead pipe.

I said the fight was anti-climactic. That's it. Not the confrontation afterward, not the scene it was in, not all the action beforehand. The fight.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Na I think if there is to be a Joker re-cast it should be Bettany.

Only if he gets to delve into the character in the same way Heath did. Make it a really personal portrayal. I think Bettany could create something really interesting and evil, I just think he has it in him.

And as we know, there is theories that have been about for years that Joker alters his personality slightly each time he is locked away. I think it could be quite unique to do it that way. I mean, I don't think you can say Joker is a one note personality, he is all over the place, mentally.

Yeah, this is exactly what I thought of after I saw the movie, especially since his scar story changed up constantly.

All the Joseph Gordon Levitt talk is just getting old too. I don't care if he looks like Heath Ledger, there are a million other, more qualified actors out there to take up the role. On top of that, Heath Ledger didn't look like Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight.

 

[CaptainClown]

aw i love seeing people see joe Gordon next to heath and then talk about recasting. gets me everytime.

 

[I Am The Knight]

On top of that, Heath Ledger didn't look like Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight.

My fatha....waaaashhh...

 

[Cunning Stunts]

My fatha....waaaashhh...

Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[I Am The Knight]

Is there something I'm missing here?

Yes. But I don't want to get banned.

 

[TheBatman072]

... Dude, I mentioned the fight, that was it. I made no mention of the rest of the scene. I thought the scene was incredible, but the fight alone was a bit of a lackluster. It was a two-minute fight that included The Joker wailing on Batman with a lead pipe.

I said the fight was anti-climactic. That's it. Not the confrontation afterward, not the scene it was in, not all the action beforehand. The fight.

Yeah, and the fight was fine the way it was in proportion to the scene it was in.

If the scene was more pulse-pounding and such, the fight would have been longer and more intense.

And the reason why Batman didn't really come out on top in this fight until near the end, was because he was attacked by three large rotweillers, beaten with a pipe at the same time, thrown into a net, and then had some kind of scafolding dropped on top of him.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

yes. But i don't want to get banned.

pm?

 

[regwec]

Only an actor who can make the most of the role should be given it. It doesn't matter if they look different. We could be told that the SWAT team beat The Joker's face in (he would probably have provoked them to do so, in order to have the opportunity to escape from a hospital rather than a prison), and that he had to have reconstructive surgery to keep his skull intact. It would be pretty sinister if our first sight of him in the third film was a figure whose face is hidden by a mess of bandages. It would also be a nice reference to "Batman". Perhaps The Joker could paint a smile onto his bandages with the blood of guard on his door? Who knows?

I think that either Bettany or Depp could do great things.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea I really think Bettany could create something really interesting and evil, if given the opportunity like Heath was to delve into the character and create a personal portrayal. That's the key for me. No impersonations. Whoever gets the gig must create something entirely personal and unique to them. Make it like the evil version of themselves, that's how I look at Heath's Joker. Like it was Heath, but a twisted and evil version of himself.

 

[Anjow1060]

are we really back to the bettany dammit thing?

Honestly, I could see JGL taking over. He's working with Nolan on inception, he looks the part, it's really just how his acting skills are. I haven't see him in anything other than 3rd Rock or 10 things I hate about you (and I think being a friend of Ledgers he might feel comfortable picking up the reigns and continuing with Heath's interpretation.) I haven't seen him in Stop-loss so idk how he stacks up in there but I'm looking forward to seeing him in GI Joe as Cobra. We'll see how he "delves" into that sinister role and go from there.

But in all honesty, I don't think the Joker should come back at all. If he does, I could settle with a cameo equal to Scarecrows in TDK just to have some overall continuity --- but that will just lead to the same complaining we got about that, just with the Joker. But really, let's get a couple other bat villains their dues and proper treatments before we go to the bullpen. Riddler, Freeze, Bane, Catwoman, Penguin, Hatter, Croc.

Not to mention, give Ledger some respect. It's honorable to let a film go by to let Ledger hold on to the Joker fame. I understand he's gone, but we can honor the amazing performance he gave *us*, not the general audience, us the fanboys/girls. The man gave it everything he had to do this character right and honoring his effort for a movie or two is the least we can do. I'm not saying NO JOKER EVER AGAIN! Because frankly, that's idiotic and I don't want that. But if I just had the best plate of spaghetti yesterday for dinner, I want a nice steak tonight, maybe some really good chicken tomorrow and then once I've gotten away from it for a while I can have some great spaghetti again so I don't get sick of it too soon.

(for those lacking metaphor abilities = Joker-Spaghetti, Other villains = steak & chicken)

.......

Now i want lunch.

- Jow

PS: This thread is STILL going!?

 

[regwec]

But The Joker is a staple of Batman's world. He's less a plate of spaghetti than the first cup of coffee in the morning.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Or, quite literally, The Joker is Batman. The two are such complete carbon copies of each other, it's almost impossible to have or imagine one without the other.

 

[Goodfellas]

If Joker returns Joseph Gordon Leviit would be a great choice...

Iam not a fan of Joker returning because of Ledgers passing...But if Joker is to return it has to be faithful to what Ledger since this is Nolans verse....Levitt i feel could really do a great job.

We dont even need to worry about him in Gi Joe because that movie is going to suck so bad that it won't be fare to judge levitt on that...

Remember prior to Joker...Ledger never played a villain and he turned out pretty good id say