Rudy Giuliani Officially In 2008 Presidential Race

[PhotoJones]

Giuliani will never win, he doesn't hate gays and he doesn't think that that everyone should be allowed to own a gun. He's too smart for the Republicans to like and therefore it will never work.
It's either going to be Obama or Hillary, my bet's on Obama.

hahaha...hell yeah!

 

[Kritish]

A clump of cells or not, its a living human life.

And that means jack ****, DNA isn't what makes us human. It's our mind that makes us worth something.

 

[hippie_hunter]

No its really not. A strand of hair will never be anything more than that. A fetus, at every stage, is growing rapidly, devloping at an amazing pace. A strand of hair is always a strand of hair, a part of the whole, a fetus is the whole.

But this is not a fetus, it's an embryo. An embryo and a fetus are two different things. An embryo is a clump of cells that will eventually become a fetus. It possesses no human qualities unlike a fetus.

I don't see why we have to compromise for convenience.

It's not convenience, it's reality.

 

[mwm1331]

But this is not a fetus, it's an embryo. An embryo and a fetus are two different things. An embryo is a clump of cells that will eventually become a fetus. It possesses no human qualities unlike a fetus.

And if there were a single defining moment when that change happens maybe I would agree. But th fact is the difference between fetus and embryo is just time.

It's not convenience, it's reality.

And thats where we disagree.

 

[Kritish]

And if there were a single defining moment when that change happens maybe I would agree. But th fact is the difference between fetus and embryo is just time.

And thats where we disagree.

That's the most ignorant thing that I have ever heard. If you think that all of this is just a matter of time do you consider an acorn is a tree?

 

[mwm1331]

That's the most ignorant thing that I have ever heard. If you think that all of this is just a matter of time do you consider an acorn is a tree?

I don't respond well to sophistry. Or to third grade arguments masquerading as profundity.
Maybe in ten years you'll be worth talking to.

 

[Superman]

I posted this in another thread but this seems like a better place to post it....



I do know one thing though. I won't be voting for Giuliani. Giuliani has said that "America is very fortunate to have President Bush". and that Bush was a "strong, decisive wartime leader". He even compared Bush to Winston Churchill.

Anyone who looks up to Bush and thinks Bush is a strong wartime leader and that we are lucky to have him is a complete moron IMO and won't be getting my vote. When it comes to Iraq Giuliani has been backing Bush without question since day one just like that ass kisser McCain. If either of them gets in the White House it will be more of the same crap we've been getting from Bush these past few years. America can't afford another Bush in the White House.

 

[Kritish]

I don't respond well to sophistry. Or to third grade arguments masquerading as profundity.
Maybe in ten years you'll be worth talking to.

People that hide behind intelligence and "I've studied biology" to defend a completely emotional stance lack the IQ of a meth riddled chimp.
I have little respect for pro-life advocates due to their opinions being based on nothing but emotion. They see an ultrasound image of a fetus or a zygote being terminated and they see a fully vested member society. If something is a human merely because it has human DNA than tumors and parasitic twins are "people"; and most scientists and smart people would agree with me that they're not.
There's a big difference between homo saipen and "people". Homo Saipens are anything with human DNA and a person thinks, feels and is self-aware.
You're an idiot, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[mwm1331]

People that hide behind intelligence and "I've studied biology" to defend a completely emotional stance lack the IQ of a meth riddled chimp.
I have little respect for pro-life advocates due to their opinions being based on nothing but emotion. They see an ultrasound image of a fetus or a zygote being terminated and they see a fully vested member society. If something is a human merely because it has human DNA than tumors and parasitic twins are "people"; and most scientists and smart people would agree with me that they're not.
There's a big difference between homo saipen and "people". Homo Saipens are anything with human DNA and a person thinks, feels and is self-aware.
You're an idiot, nothing more, nothing less.

Funny.
No really.
I wasn't aware that tumors were classified as homo sapiens.
Oh wait, thats right, they aren't.
Like I said, maybe in ten years you'll be worth talking to, but I doubt it.
And BTW there is no differnce between Homo Sapiens and people. All of our cells contain Human DNA, but none of those cells are Homo sapiens, however all of them, together, form a member of homo spaiens.
By your "logic" a single strand of hair could be classified as homo Spaines, (rather than a single cell from a member of homo sapiens) and anyone with even half a brain knows better.
But I am glad to see that you are devolving, the acorn bit was 5th grade, that last one was 1st.

 

[PhotoJones]

Funny.
No really.
I wasn't aware that tumors were classified as homo sapiens.
Oh wait, thats right, they aren't.
Like I said, maybe in ten years you'll be worth talking to, but I doubt it.
And BTW there is no differnce between Homo Sapiens and people. All of our cells contain Human DNA, but none of those cells are Homo sapiens, however all of them, together, form a member of homo spaiens.
By your "logic" a single strand of hair could be classified as homo Spaines, (rather than a single cell from a member of homo sapiens) and anyone with even half a brain knows better.
But I am glad to see that you are devolving, the acorn bit was 5th grade, that last one was 1st.

he wasn't saying that at all.

you know, you exhibit the classic symptoms of a typical conservative:
1) can't listen
2)struggles to maintain a valid point
3)not very intelligent (might be smart, but not intelligent)

 

[mwm1331]

he wasn't saying that at all.

you know, you exhibit the classic symptoms of a typical conservative:
1) can't listen
2)struggles to maintain a valid point
3)not very intelligent (might be smart, but not intelligent)

Yeah he was.

If something is a human merely because it has human DNA than tumors and parasitic twins are "people"; and most scientists and smart people would agree with me that they're not.

I can and do listen, when people say something worth listening to. Wanna give it a shot jonesy, or you just gonna pull the usual internet BS?
Fact is his argument is puerile, sophistic, and quite frankly stupid. A single cell, or even a group of cells from an organism is not the same thing as an organism. A embryo, even a zygote, is a whole (if not fully developed) organism, neither a tumor, or a strand of hair, nor even a parasitic twin is, nor will it ever be. In the instance of a parasitic twin, it has been absorbed into the host organism, and as such has no chance of ever developing into a viable organism. An embryo does.
Like I said arguments about whether it is a person, in the legal sense, or whether it deserves the rights and protections of such, are valid. But to claim that even a zygote is not a human life, is flat wrong, and more to the point, can only be accepted by someone who either willfully, or ignorantly, disregards the facts. But then thats one of the classical symptoms of liberals.

 

[zanos]

Guiliani is a huge admirer of the Bush administration. He'd be a great successor to Bush.

 

[The Chairman]

Guiliani is a huge admirer of the Bush administration. He'd be a great successor to Bush.

I wouldn't call him a huge admirer. He's been a bit more critical of Iraq lately.

 

[Movies205]

I wouldn't label all Christians in the same boat, there are so many different divisions, it's like labeling all Muslims as Terrorists which is completely untrue.

As for Giuliani, I can see myself supporting him, but I'm hoping for McCain.

 

[Gonking]

eh...he's also very pro-war.

that's the problem

 

[jaguarr]

I posted this in another thread but this seems like a better place to post it....



I do know one thing though. I won't be voting for Giuliani. Giuliani has said that "America is very fortunate to have President Bush". and that Bush was a "strong, decisive wartime leader". He even compared Bush to Winston Churchill.

Anyone who looks up to Bush and thinks Bush is a strong wartime leader and that we are lucky to have him is a complete moron IMO and won't be getting my vote. When it comes to Iraq Giuliani has been backing Bush without question since day one just like that ass kisser McCain. If either of them gets in the White House it will be more of the same crap we've been getting from Bush these past few years. America can't afford another Bush in the White House.

I agree with your sentiments. At any rate, Giuliani will never win the nomination bid from the neo-con controlled Republicans. He's the closest thing they have to a liberal Democrat and he wouldn't be a Puppet President like the current one. I can see them putting their weight behind McCain because he's already demonstrated that he's willing to be the party's b1tch and do whatever he's told.

jag

 

[The Chairman]

I really don't think Giuliani is th Iraq - endorsing nut that you are making him out to be. He's starting to grow critical of it. He syas he felt the war wasn't carried out properly and he does express distaste for the current condition that Iraq is in.

 

[zanos]

I wouldn't call him a huge admirer. He's been a bit more critical of Iraq lately.

He practically gushes about Bush everytime I hear him talk about the administration. If that's not being a huge admirer I don't know what is. He supports the war and everything we're doing in Iraq.

 

[The Chairman]

He practically gushes about Bush everytime I hear him talk about the administration. If that's not being a huge admirer I don't know what is. He supports the war and everything we're doing in Iraq.

Well, recently he did express criticism. I read the quotes. He is starting be a bit skeptical about Iraq. I haven't heard gush about Bush in awhile. He's changed his opinion, I think. Quite a few people who used to be in massive support of Bush and his policies are having a change of heart. Arnold, for example, was big supporter of Bush's policies for quite some time, vbut now they couldn't be further removed politically. Arnold has essentially become a Republican In Name Only, same thing with Giuliani.

 

[zanos]

I really don't think Giuliani is th Iraq - endorsing nut that you are making him out to be. He's starting to grow critical of it. He syas he felt the war wasn't carried out properly and he does express distaste for the current condition that Iraq is in.

If he's actually said that then that's a complete 180 on his stance from just months ago. What exactly has changed in Iraq in that time? Sounds like someone got a hold of him and started telling him what ppl want to hear.

 

[jaguarr]

Well, recently he did express criticism. I read the quotes. He is starting be a bit skeptical about Iraq. I haven't heard gush about Bush in awhile. He's changed his opinion, I think. Quite a few people who used to be in massive support of Bush and his policies are having a change of heart. Arnold, for example, was big supporter of Bush's policies for quite some time, vbut now they couldn't be further removed politically. Arnold has essentially become a Republican In Name Only, same thing with Giuliani.

A lot of the Republicans have been working to distance themselves from Bush, lately. They know that he's hugely unpopular and realize that being associated with him could be detrimental to their political careers. This last round of Congressional elections illustrates that their fears of that are fairly well-founded, too.

jag

 

[The Chairman]

If he's actually said that then that's a complete 180 on his stance from just months ago. What exactly has changed in Iraq in that time? Sounds like someone got a hold of him and started telling him what ppl want to hear.

Well, I myself have chnaged my opinion from a few months ago. As recently as November, I was a far right conservatve Republican. Now, however, I have done a complete 180 in my opinions. I now see that the war is not going well, and that Bush hasn't been doing a very good job of keeping the country stable. Not that his detractors have been any better.

I seriously don't think Giuliani is doing this just o gain support. I truky do believe he's realizing what a mess Iraq is, and it's time to clean it up.

A lot of the Republicans have been working to distance themselves from Bush, lately. They know that he's hugely unpopular and realize that being associated with him could be detrimental to their political careers. This last round of Congressional elections illustrates that their fears of that are fairly well-founded, too.

Absolutely. Both sides of the political spectrum don't think much of him lately.

 

[Chris B]

If the Republicans want to retain the White House in 2008, then they will nominate Guiliani. While he may have a good shot at winning the nomination, I can't see Romney winning the general election. And McCain I think has gradually become somewhat unelectable. Public opinion is turning against the war in Iraq, and that is what helped allow the Democrats to take control of Congress last year. McCain wants to further escalate that war, and if he or any other Republican campaigns on that, he will lose.

 

[The Chairman]

If the Republicans want to retain the White House in 2008, then they will nominate Guiliani. While he may have a good shot at winning the nomination, I can't see Romney winning the general election. And McCain I think has gradually become somewhat unelectable. Public opinion is turning against the war in Iraq, and that is what helped allow the Democrats to take control of Congress last year. McCain wants to further escalate that war, and if he or any other Republican campaigns on that, he will lose.

QFT.

 

[jaguarr]

I'm not entirely convinced that he's trying to distance himself from Bush completely because he's suddenly waking up and seeing the light. The timing of it is too coincidental and makes me think that his handles are guiding him to do that because they know that being associated with Bush is the political kiss of death where the next Presidential election is concerned.

jag