Rumored "Final Crisis" to be supposedly written by Kurt Busiek

[Anubis]

It's Superheroes. It doesn't have to have a point.

 

[CConn]

I never said it did, but, like, when COIE came out (and, really, until IC happened) the Crisis was treated as this great big good thing that made the DCU better and easier to understand. When, in actuality, it really didn't. And all IC did was make everything more confusing. Yeah, comics don't have to have a point, but when they start seriously screwing things up, it starts to get a wee annoying.

 

[Anubis]

What's confusing? The return of the Multiverse? I've had a tougher time trying to set the timer on my VCR than understanding the Multiverse. Just sounds like Pointless whining to me. But I guess Whining doesn't have to have a point either. Oh yeah, I went there.

 

[CConn]

That's the point though, the Multiverse isn't confusing. What is confusing is continuity merging then splitting Earths has created. It would've been much better if they had just left the Multiverse be in 1986, and left DC's continuity relatively untouched.

And I'm not whining.

 

[The Leaguer]

A structured multiverse is stupid, and thus I'm not like the 53 Earths at all. Considering I can't stand alternate realities, leaving the multiverse back in 1986 would also have been stupid, and thus Crisis on Infinite Earths was completely appropriate and appreciated.

 

[Assassin]

Not much of a backlash. Same whiny motha f**ks whining about the same s**t as always.

:heart:

 

[Aristotle]

I'm in the same boat. Crisis on Infinite Earths was way before my time, so I learned about it after all its changes had crystalized into the DC universe I knew growing up, so I'm not really able to comment on that one objectively.

Before my time too, but here's a reason to love it: Superman isn't God anymore.

Infinite Crisis, on the other hand, had a great build-up but mostly sucked.

Infinite Crisis did seem a little rushed at times, but mostly I felt it accomplished its aims: big event, universe goes back to the more heroic, good ol' times, moral high-ground that DC's been claiming over Marvel for years but had been starting to drift away from, one-panel cameos by forgotten heroes to remind us of Gunfire and that other guy, and a few really great moments. Sure, it wasn't perfect, and not even DC's best event, but it was good, and the awesome buildup to it makes it worthwhile, as those stories kicked ass in and of themselves.

I can't help feeling that the whole thing is just overkill right from the start.

In a fictional universe containing a superhero who flies, has superstrength, shoots lasers out of his eyes, has cold breath, has X-ray vision, is invulnerable, and is a basically decent person, you're concerned about overkill?

 

[Aristotle]

Jeeze DC has as many titles with the word crisis as marvel does WAR.
New idea time guys

True, but with DC, the whole "Crisis" concept can be chalked up to a sort of universal motif going back to the old Crises on Multiple Earths, some sort of characteristic of the universe, just the same way that Earth-1 was a "good" universe and Earth-3 was a "bad" universe. And no matter how many times they flog the "Crisis" to death, a universe-shattering apocalypse isn't going to get old as fast as moronic comics dreamed up to sell toys and glorified fanboys writing glorified fan-service hero-fights that make Stan Lee look like a visionary writer telling complex stories about the human condition.

 

[Aristotle]

That's good to know at least. I dig Kurt Busiek's work but I'd have rather have seen him go over to Marvel and write some Spider-Man or something.

That's like saying, "Sure, Alan Moore's been doing great work lately, but I sure wish he'd go write Captain Carrot."

Second thought, an Alan Moore take on Captain Carrot would be at least worth picking up. While anything featuring the Emo Wonder Without Even A Conflicted Double-Life Gimmick Anymore is completely devoid of meaning.

Does not really matter that it's named Crisis - I bet it will be based around the Great Disaster.

If it wasn't a Crisis it would be another summer event.

Oh Lordy. Someone who still has his wits about him. Now that is a shocking announcement.

Sweeping events are the foil covers and holographic covers of this period in comics.

Because they're totally unique to this era, and haven't been happening for well over 20 years. On an unrelated note, you know what else I'm tired of? This new sport "baseball." Upstart fad game, if you ask me. And don't even get me started on this whole "Republican Party." Can't wait till THAT trend passes.

The first Final Fantasty was supposed to be Squaresoft's last game, as they were going bankrupt, but it sold amazingly and brought them back. So they kept the name.

No, I heard the reason they named it Final Fantasy was because the game's ****ing stupid, and they needed a suitably wanky, pretentious, and ****ing stupid name to go along with the whole "****ing stupid" motif.

 

[Aristotle]

That was more anti-climactic than the ending of Civil War.

At least he didn't kill off his only interesting and worthwhile major character at the end of it.

Maybe they do have Busiek working on some super secret project, God knows they throw a new event at us every summer.

Goddamn that DC. Them with their events. Their "Infinite Crisis," their "Day of Judgment," their "Legends," their "Secret Wars," and their "Civil War," and their ******ed-ass "Disassembling ****." So glad Marvel has the integrity to stay above it all and publish quality material that respects the reader's intellect and delivers good content.

You ever say or type something so blatantly untrue, that even telling yourself it's sarcasm doesn't stop your conscience from hurting?

i wonder if it'll break the internet in half

No, just whiny children who pretend they're old codgers from the Golden Age.

DC is really running this whole Multiverse thing dry.

You've inspired me, Eros. From now on, anytime something happens that I don't like, regardless of the fact that it won't have ANYTHING to do with DC's Multiverse (much like the Final Crisis news doesn't), I'll just blather out, "You know, DC is really running this whole Multiverse thing dry."

What's that? My flight to Chicago's been cancelled? You know, DC is really running this whole Multiverse thing dry.

Wait a minute. Waiter, I asked for my steak to be medium, not well done. You know, DC is really running this whole Multiverse thing dry.

 

[Aristotle]

That's the point though, the Multiverse isn't confusing. What is confusing is continuity merging then splitting Earths has created.

It's so confusing, you literally just explained it in less than a sentence. Wow. See, confusing is the tax code. "There used to be infinite earths, and then many were killed off and the remaining few were merged into one, and now it split back into 52," that's not confusing.

I'm not whining.

Yeah, you are.

 

[Steelsheen]

I merely had a moment of clarity and realized Crisises are pointless, is all.

I never said it did, but, like, when COIE came out (and, really, until IC happened) the Crisis was treated as this great big good thing that made the DCU better and easier to understand. When, in actuality, it really didn't. And all IC did was make everything more confusing. Yeah, comics don't have to have a point, but when they start seriously screwing things up, it starts to get a wee annoying.

That's the point though, the Multiverse isn't confusing. What is confusing is continuity merging then splitting Earths has created. It would've been much better if they had just left the Multiverse be in 1986, and left DC's continuity relatively untouched.

And I'm not whining.

sounds like you've had an epiphany

its not that the Crises were pointless. it was a honest to goodness attempt to bring order to a very rich but chaotic heritage that was DC Comics. the effort can be luaded though, however i dont think TPTB (at the time) considered the long term ramifications of placing the restrictions. that was part of the reason why i and many others didnt buy into the Crisis idea (yes i came into comics towards the end of Pre-Crisis and right into COIE) because we could see that in the long run, this whole thing will get so top heavy and restrictive, new writers coming in will have to contend with so much baggage of a certain franchise and are creatively limited to what they can contribute. continuity is paramount after COIE, and when you have that to think about, half of a writer's ideas goes out the window. that is why in the past few years stories within continuity have gotten stale, or nearly identical with other franchises. theres only so much tricks you can do in a straight jacket you know what i mean? that's why if you noticed, a lot of the really great DC stories that came after COIE arent even within continuity, they're from Elseworlds, becaus writers there can bypass the tenets continuity and just let the creative juices flow.

i've always wondered what was it about the reboot principle of comics that DC suddenly didnt like. in any case, it seems like they're learning the lessons and are easing up on the restrictions by bringing the Multiverse back in, but its still got some sense of order, as you can see their limiting the universes to 52. if managed properly this is enough to get new, creative ideas and stories flowing around again into the different franchises for a good long while without things getting out of control.

 

[Aristotle]

continuity is paramount after COIE, and when you have that to think about, half of a writer's ideas goes out the window.

Continuity HAS to be paramount! If there's no continuity, there can be no meaningful character development, since everything's basically a stand-alone story in its own universe and it happens to feature the same character, and even if there is development, it doesn't matter or interest anyone because there's no way to know it will last. The next guy can come along and **** it over if he didn't like it. Sounds like Marvel Comics under Joe Quesada, actually. I bet you really like Marvel under Joe Q, don't you?

that is why in the past few years stories within continuity have gotten stale, or nearly identical with other franchises.

Well, no, not really.

theres only so much tricks you can do in a straight jacket you know what i mean?

No, I don't, because it's an awful analogy. I bet you totally dig the song "I Can't Drive 55."

that's why if you noticed, a lot of the really great DC stories that came after COIE arent even within continuity, they're from Elseworlds, becaus writers there can bypass the tenets continuity and just let the creative juices flow.

OK, creative juices are semen, dude. Let's just cancel that phrase except in sexual usage. Anyway, to be honest, those EW stories lose a bit of their punch because their EW. That's not Superman, it's just some Kryptonian who landed in the USSR. That's not Batman, it's a guy in a suit who got bitten by vampires. That's not the future of the DCU...oh, OK, wait, it is now. Which I'm sure Steelsheen has a problem with, because continuity is the devil of comicdom.

in any case, it seems like they're learning the lessons and are easing up on the restrictions by bringing the Multiverse back in, but its still got some sense of order, as you can see their limiting the universes to 52.

DAMN THEM AND THEIR SENSE OF ORDER!

 

[Kitsune]

Why don't they just call it "Crisis of Infinite Crissises?"

 

[Mee]

"The Crisi-est Crisis"

"Infinite-er Crisis"

"Crisis: The Next Generation"

 

[Kitsune]

"The Crisi-est Crisis"

"Infinite-er Crisis"

"Crisis: The Next Generation"

"That 70's Show" was apparently already taken.

 

[CConn]

It's so confusing, you literally just explained it in less than a sentence. Wow. See, confusing is the tax code. "There used to be infinite earths, and then many were killed off and the remaining few were merged into one, and now it split back into 52," that's not confusing.

No, no, that's not what I meant. I'm talking about the confusion the Crisis has created for individual characters personal histories. Hawkman's continuity has been an absolute mess since COIE hit. Seemingly no one understands it. Superman's origin has been rewritten multiple times, and now we honestly don't know what's in or out of his continuity. Wonder Woman is much the same way. How the Justice League's creation has changed back and forth about who exactly founded it...it's become, IMO, pointlessly muddled .

Yeah, you are.

I'm merely explaining why - I've discovered - I think Crisises are a bad idea. I'm not trying to drone on endlessly about the topic or drive my point through people's skulls; just explaining an opinion. If that's whining, to explain a negative opinion, what isn't whining? Being positive about everything?

 

[Steelsheen]

Continuity HAS to be paramount! If there's no continuity, there can be no meaningful character development, since everything's basically a stand-alone story in its own universe and it happens to feature the same character, and even if there is development, it doesn't matter or interest anyone because there's no way to know it will last. The next guy can come along and **** it over if he didn't like it. Sounds like Marvel Comics under Joe Quesada, actually. I bet you really like Marvel under Joe Q, don't you?

Well, no, not really.

No, I don't, because it's an awful analogy. I bet you totally dig the song "I Can't Drive 55."

OK, creative juices are semen, dude. Let's just cancel that phrase except in sexual usage. Anyway, to be honest, those EW stories lose a bit of their punch because their EW. That's not Superman, it's just some Kryptonian who landed in the USSR. That's not Batman, it's a guy in a suit who got bitten by vampires. That's not the future of the DCU...oh, OK, wait, it is now. Which I'm sure Steelsheen has a problem with, because continuity is the devil of comicdom.

DAMN THEM AND THEIR SENSE OF ORDER!

argued like a true Post-Crisis lover who doesnt want things to change.

its ok dude, i forgive you

if its any consolation, now you know what the Pre-Crisis readers felt when COIE came around.

in fact i remember it being worse, because in a nutshell we were told that everything we knew about the characters we loved were sheit, that they are invalid in the New Order of things post COIE. try living with that feeling for the past 20 years, then when we try to speak about something Pre-Crisis, folks like you would rub in our face that its dead and buried. lovely isnt it?

at least with Post-Crisis followers all you have to do is be more open with the changes, that some of the new stuff can hail from Pre-Crisis. it doesnt invalidate what you already know right? dont you think you have a better deal in all this?

anyway, i know that some Post-Crisis followers will never give in. i've been through this before. its There and Back Again. if there is anything i learned from this whole trip, is to take the changes in stride, and essentially just pick and choose. nobody is forcing anybody to like everything.

Why don't they just call it "Crisis of Infinite Crissises?"

sounds like a title to a great article.

hmmm.......

 

[TheCorpulent1]

at least with Post-Crisis followers all you have to do is be more open with the changes, that some of the new stuff can hail from Pre-Crisis. it doesnt invalidate what you already know right?

No. Oh, except when it does. Like with the JLA, where Meltzer pretty much invalidated the fantastic JLA: Year One.

 

[Darthphere]

No. Oh, except when it does. Like with the JLA, where Meltzer pretty much invalidated the fantastic JLA: Year One.

And Mark Waid invalidated him.

 

[Steelsheen]

with the Multiverse figuring in i think a lot of those can be kept now.

see it works

 

[TheCorpulent1]

So DC's gonna publish comics based on every iteration of every JLA to keep all its fans happy? That's where the "Hooray Multiverse!" idea breaks down. DC has to stick with one main version, and the main version they chose kind of sucks.

And Mark Waid invalidated him.

Yeah, but you know that was pretty much Waid going, "Silver Age JLA origins, what? Suck it, Meltzer!"

 

[yenaled]

I don't think DC is going to publish book based on other worlds.

At least, they shouldn't.

I think it's important for modern fans to have that "this is the main version, these characters you care about". If there is just 52 versions of any character it lessens peoples emotional involvement. You have to care about these people and you have to care about why they do what they do. Not start thinking "why does Batman even care there are about 52 of him running around anyway".

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Except DC's already breaking that rule with the Legion, which has two iterations that are integrally important to the main, New Earth continuity now.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

People really seem to hate the Multiverse. I always liked it. Without it some of the greatest stories like Red Son and Kingdom Come would become meaningless what-if's.