Saw VI discussion thread

[xwolverine2]

its a shame that Paranormal Activity movie beat Saw VI at the box office...
now there's gonna be a ****load of more "scary" handheld shot movies.


I have yet to see Saw VI but thats only because i need to rent Saw V before seeing this one... the reviews are amazing though... i thought it would have less than 15%(Saw V) but 45%!?...

..lol i guess this is what happens when there's been abosolutely no gorey hard R movies in a while.

i have never not liked any of the saw films... and i think they're getting all slightly better and creative (for a horror flick).

and to those who say this is torture porn... it aint no different than final destination ( the recent FD's being completely ******ed) lol

 

[E-Man]

I saw this last night. It was much better than part 5, but it was pretty predictable. Who honestly couldn't see that ending coming? It was too obvious well before it happened. I will say that I did like the movie a little. It is on a part 3 and 4 level of having some good traps, but I'm glad I got free tickets because I'm burned out on Saw. VI will make a nice addition to my collection, but I can't see how they can continue this series without really getting ridiculous.

 

[Heretic]

Torture Porn may be a name used to bash the genre, but who cares...everyone knows what you're talking about when you say it. I'm a huge fan of Hair Metal. Do I think the music is all about hair?? Of course not, there's some talented musicians in that genre...but every one reading this knew exactly what bands I was talking about when they read "Hair Metal". It was a losing battle when I spent years trying to convince people to not call it that, and it's probably a losing battle to try to give Torture Porn a new title...sucks...but get over it.

Obviously there are the diehard fans who love the movies and all...but the general public doesnt care. If you went to Walmart right now and proclaimed to the next 100 people that walked by you that Dr Curt Connors would return and be the villain in the next Spider-Man film, the vast majority of people who have seen all three previous films would have no clue who you're talking about (despite the fact that he's mentioned/seen in all three)

The fact is that most of the general audience loves the twists and turns of the Saw films, but are not about to invest the time and energy it takes to keep track of characters, subplots and such. It's kind of pathetic, really...but I think that's why the films are losing their impact. People loved going "hey, that guy isnt dead!!!!", but in general people are too stupid and uninterested to remember a minor detail in part 3 that impacts the story in part 8.

 

[xwolverine2]

well i remember Saw used to be as famous as The Ring when the first two came out.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Planning on seeing this soon, but could someone who has already answer these two questions for me:

Spoiler

Was there any reference to Dr Gordon in this movie? If so, what was it? Also, do you suspect the writers are planning something more with him on VII?

And, what about Jill? Does it reveal in VI that she is with Jigsaw's schemes or against him?

Spoiler

Jigsaw mentions him while discussing his medical options, basically saying Gordon "has his hand on the doorknob half the time he's there.", honestly i dont think that the film-makers have any intention of bringing him back, they made him sound pretty incompetent in my opinion but who knows.

as for jill, let's just say i hope you weren't against her involvement, because they pretty much show her at least showing up during the set up for Saw 3 and 4 taking place and not necessarily condemning john for what he's doing.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I watched it tonight and I found it was a very good film. It tied up some loose ends and purposefully left open some new ones for future films.

Spoiler

Not disappointed about no Gordon showing up. In fact, I think they do plan on bringing him back. They made reference to him, spoke about the surgical nature of the Jigsaw pieces, and Jill drops off a tape to an unknown doctors office but we have no idea who. I think that's a clue there.

Personally, as much as I liked this and felt it was a strong film. They should just stop for now and let it rest.

Spoiler

The final image of Hoffman with half of his jaw ripped open was gruesome and fitting for everything he did. I definitely see him becoming bitter, vengeful, and now becoming a full on killer since he killed Erickson, Perez, and the lab technician. He still gets away since he planted Strahms fingerprints at the scene.

Spoiler

The shot of Strahms corpse was horrible. I felt so bad for Strahm as there literally was nothing left of him. Very sad ending for a great character such as him.

I say let the Saw franchise rest for a year or two.

Spoiler

I do wonder where will they take Hoffman's character? I can see him possibly going after Jill.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

The doctor is...

Spoiler

The one who did all the examinations on the Jigsaw victims.

Spoiler

Could be. I didn't think about him. I doubt the FBI would let him in on such privy information though. Why would he be a Jigsaw apprentice anyways? Plus I don't recall him limping either so I think it would be rather pointless to include him.

Spoiler

That final shot of Hoffman is iconic stuff. Perhaps they should let Kevin Greutert direct the next one? He did a great job at capturing certain images that stick in your head. Hoffman with half of his ripped apart is iconic in my opinion.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Spoiler

But they didn't explain as to why Amanda killed Kerry and Adam? I could buy her killing Adam as a mercy kill. But why Kerry? I wonder if Hoffman threatened her early on with revealing to John at what she did?

Spoiler

Who also delivered the Amanda letter to Pamela? Someone else who was obviously close to Jigsaw.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Spoiler

I think Saw 7 should have one of those timelines where a couple or a few years passes. It can show a scarred Hoffman who is still studying test subjects and testing them while planning his revenge on Jill.

What's interesting to note is how ironic the ending was.

Spoiler

Hoffman escaped his trap in the same fashion that Eric Matthews did and how he was the only one who managed to outsmart Jigsaw's game. It showed how well he studied Jigsaws method and how he possibly anticipated a test to an extent.

 

[The Dark Defender]

"Obviously there are the diehard fans who love the movies and all...but the general public doesnt care."

The films are loaded with complex stories, themes, and characters, and there's nothing pathetic about them unless you find complexity and substance "pathetic."
If members of the audience don't bother looking closely enough to see it, that's their loss, but it's not the films' fault.

The films aren't centered purely around some sick thrill of watching people die horrible deaths, which is what "torture porn" means.

"Who honestly couldn't see that ending coming..."

Spoiler

I highly doubt that you saw it coming that Hoffman was going to end up in the reverse bear trap, barely escape it, be mutilated, and exposed to the public (as Perez said)...of course you knew he was likely to get his compeuppance, that was kinda the point, it's been building throughout the second trilogy, but if you honestly knew it was going to happen in that way, you should be making a fortune as a psychic.

Storytelling isn't simply a matter of what happens, it's a matter of the way things happen.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

"Obviously there are the diehard fans who love the movies and all...but the general public doesnt care."

The films are loaded with complex stories, themes, and characters, and there's nothing pathetic about them unless you find complexity and substance "pathetic."
If members of the audience don't bother looking closely enough to see it, that's their loss, but it's not the films' fault.

The films aren't centered purely around some sick thrill of watching people die horrible deaths, which is what "torture porn" means.

I understand what Heretic is saying though. Fans like us remember characters, plot details, and come for the twists and the complex stories within the characters. But the general public is obviously losing interest with these films and they're not going to keep coming.

I'm sure the general public didn't remember

Spoiler

Amanda and I know they sure didn't remember Perez. I'm sure some of them don't even know who Dr. Gordon is.

It's not to say these films are horrible at all, quite the opposite, however, he is right when it's becoming painfully obvious that they're losing their impact.

 

[The Dark Defender]

I don't base a films impact on what the audience thinks, and I couldn't care less about how the film effects someone that can't remember a major character like Amanda, or just plain doesn't care about what a film has to say. I don't want the films to cater to attention spans like that.

And this film would've opened within atleast $5 million of the previous SAW opening weekend if it weren't for a huge BO phenomenon that appeals to the exact same audience going head to head with it.

The word of mouth of IV and V hurt it, yes, but Paranormal Activity hurt as much or more and would've crushed the gross of any SAW film.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I don't base a films impact on what the audience thinks, and I couldn't care less about how the film effects someone that can't remember a major character like Amanda, or just plain doesn't care about what a film has to say. I don't want the films to cater to attention spans like that.

And this film would've opened within atleast $5 million of the previous SAW opening weekend if it weren't for a huge BO phenomenon that appeals to the exact same audience going head to head with it.

The word of mouth of IV and V hurt it, yes, but Paranormal Activity hurt as much or more and would've crushed the gross of any SAW film.

Oh, I don't disagree with you at all. I'm just stating I see both sides of the argument regarding the films impact. But it's become a sad reality that that the attention span of the general public is the size of an ant. They don't care about the details and don't really care about the story.

Sometimes they get it right. Lord of the Rings, Sin City, 300, The Dark Knight, Iron Man, Spider-Man 1 and 2, V For Vendetta, and others were successful because of the fans and the general audience. But as a whole when an overhyped film like Paranormal Activity defeats Saw something is wrong. I think the makers of the films should consider having them come out in a different month and perhaps having them released every year hurts it too.

Let it breathe and let the people hunger for it. Hence why I think when you consider the ending of Saw 6 it's best to let a couple of years pass by.

 

[The Dark Defender]

I really love the idea of it being a trilogy-trilogy. I think they should go to SAW 9 without taking a break, then stop for good; or atleast end the current continuity, then do a reboot later on if they want more SAW films.

SAW VII will do much better than VI without a rare phenom in the way, plus with the 3D factor, plus with the very good word of mouth of SAW VI.
It wouldn't surprise me if it even put up SAW IV numbers and topped $60 million. There were a number of negative factors holding back SAW VI that won't apply next year and a few positive ones that will.

 

[Heretic]

I wasn't calling Saw pathetic because it has a storyline that stretches over several films, I was calling the general audience pathetic for not being able to keep the characters and situations straight.

However, I agree. There is NO WAY that the general, non-diehard audience remembered Amanda from part 1, and there is no way they remember the other characters whove come and gone. I watched several of the saw movies in a row once, a sort of mini marathon, with some friends. NONE of them could remember characters from film to film, and constantly were confused as to who these people are. that's your general movie going audience for you. They dont really pay attention.

I applaud the Saw franchise for trying to reach beyond the story of the typical horror franchise. I do think that the story has been bungled with some poor films, scripts and acting...but at least they tried. I would prefer it if they had succeeded though.

Still, I am a defender of the Torture Horror (or whatever you want to call it) genre. Most genres have more bad output than good. I think that someone, somewhere is crafting the Halloween of this genre. It just hasn't happened yet.

 

[Heretic]

edit

 

[mclay18]

The thing about the Saw franchise that irritates me is that Lionsgate keeps pounding them out one by one. Where the first movie was an intriguing one-off movie the ones just keep getting repetitive and more contrived. Nowadays, it revolves around elaborate death traps despite wrapping loose ends left from previous pics. This is essentially Friday the 13th for the twenty-first century -- cheap to make, bring in a load of cash for Lionsgate and reliable overall.

But eventually, people are going to get tired of this series. Regardless if Paranormal Activity took the #1 spot, the Saw series is steadily declining. Saw VI is going to be profitable for Lionsgate regardless (since it costs $10M per pic), and I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 more pics before Lionsgate sells the rights to another company.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Truthfully

Spoiler

They need to bring back Dr. Gordon in order to keep the audiences interest. Sure, they might not remember him. But if they flashback to the bathroom trap and him sawing his foot off they will DEFINITELY remember that.

But Defender is also right in terms of it possibly being a trilogy-trilogy. When you look at it these films maintain great continuity. They still keep the smallest of details and I think that's why I love these films. You can watch all six of these films in a row and see a great seemless story.

They flow perfectly and the theme remains the same. I think Saw 1-3 dealt with Jigsaw's origins, his apprentices, and the concept of revenge. Saw 4-6 appear to be branching out into different storylines with Saw 6 taking a different direction.

Spoiler

Saw 7 should begin with Hoffman planning his revenge on Jill after a couple of years due to his own test. I do like how it came back on him when he least expected it though. Hoffman just went all kinds of badass on Erickson, Perez, and the lab technician. I mean a lowly detective cop took out two trained FBI agents with ease. How badass can you get?

 

[LastSunrise1981]

But I think we all can agree on this. It really didn't matter who won this week because either film was going to get a new one ripped by the MJ film this week.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

What was everyones favorite part in the film?

One of my favorite parts was a small part into Hoffman's character.

Spoiler

After viewing Strahms corpse he gave that sadistic grin and used Strahm's hand to plant his fingerprints there.

Regardless of whether or not people believe Gordon is alive or dead. I think it's absolutely necessary that they show what happened to him. Maybe it's true that they leave it to our imaginations, however, surely they know that bringing him back will most likely increase viewers?

I have to say the acting was a major improvement too. Every actor and actress was believable in their roles. Well, I take that back. I didn't care for the Scream Queen winner which I assume was the actress at the beginning of the first trap. Costas Mandylor was the real highlight for me personally.

He did such an amazing job and I think this film showcased what an underrated actor he is.

I have to say though

Spoiler

William got it the worst. The thing with him and Strahm is that both of their deaths were somewhat slow. Except Williams was much faster than Strahms but it was still a horrible way to die.

 

[Legion]

Spoiler

I highly doubt that you saw it coming that Hoffman was going to end up in the reverse bear trap, barely escape it, be mutilated, and exposed to the public (as Perez said)...of course you knew he was likely to get his compeuppance, that was kinda the point, it's been building throughout the second trilogy, but if you honestly knew it was going to happen in that way, you should be making a fortune as a psychic.

Storytelling isn't simply a matter of what happens, it's a matter of the way things happen.

I'm a saw fan. i liked the movie although it had some weak parts. And btw

Spoiler

I did see the reverse bear trap coming because there was a a poster a while ago that had Hoffman in it.

Most people on here thought it was Amanda even though I said I thought it was Hoffman. I expected him to die though honestly. His survival did surprise me.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I'm a saw fan. i liked the movie although it had some weak parts. And btw

Spoiler

I did see the reverse bear trap coming because there was a a poster a while ago that had Hoffman in it.

Most people on here thought it was Amanda even though I said I thought it was Hoffman. I expected him to die though honestly. His survival did surprise me.

Spoiler

I had a feeling it would return in some fashion. But it was hard to tell if that was Hoffman in the trap or not via the poster. But I was expecting him to die too when Jill put the reverse bear trap on him.

You have to give it to Hoffman. He is a tough character and he outsmarted Jigsaw, Jill, and Amanda.

 

[TKing]

Thanks AlteredEgo for those answers.

Also, I have another question for anyone who's seen VI:

Similar to Amanda's letter from Saw 3 and the box Jill receives, are there any plot items that they introduce in VI yet don't explain, leading onto more questions for VII?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Saw it yesterday and felt that it was decent. The last Saw movie was beyond awful so anything would have been a step up.

I'm glad that it sorta flopped though (yes I know it's going to make some money but is it going to be enough money to release the next one in theaters. 14.8mil is a long ways off the opening of the last one) because I don't want them to make anymore. The series should just end already.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Thanks AlteredEgo for those answers.

Also, I have another question for anyone who's seen VI:

Similar to Amanda's letter from Saw 3 and the box Jill receives, are there any plot items that they introduce in VI yet don't explain, leading onto more questions for VII?

Yes.

Spoiler

Jill drops off a tape at a doctors office that was in the box that Jigsaw gave to her. Hoffman escapes the reverse bear trap leaving him with a split jaw and still alive.

They also don't explain how Pamela received the letter that Hoffman wrote to Amanda. Strahm's fingerprints are still at the scene of Jigsaw crimes so he's still suspected of the murders.

Spoiler

Another thing I forgot. They don't explain why Hoffman wanted Lynn dead. Granted he threatened to tell Jigsaw what Amanda did to Jill because of Cecil. But there had to be a reason as to why Hoffman wanted Lynn dead and not because of Cecil or Amanda.

Spoiler

Besides, Hoffman is alive. They ended with him escaping the trap and ended the film to where they can actually make a good 7th film. I do believe the 7th should be the last though.