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Discussion in 'Superman & Lois' started by LL2K2, Jun 8, 2021.
Can someone explain what happened exactly to Superman with this red beam influence in the end? Was this red kryptonite energy?
It was the Eradicator possibly.
Hmm. I wonder if Hoechilin will wear the iconic 90s shades.
Keeping the praise going for this show, I'm super thrilled they kept the Fortress training years for Clark. That's something I really enjoyed from the Donner film. He spent 18 years raised by humans, and then another decade perhaps embracing his Kryptonian side.
It lends some believability to him having mastered his abilities to the extent he has, while also speaking every language on the planet.
Ahh good guess. I hope he get a black suit hehe.
Maximum "Clark, you have to fight it"-drama incoming.
Ah, the Fake Science of Superheroes™. My specialty!
I agree that John Byrne’s “bio-aura” explanation for Superman’s powers is rather ingenious. It’s classic technobabble/phlebotinum and “solves” (in a manner of speaking) a number of scientific problems and objections at a single stroke. (The Flash’s “speed force” is a similar, catch-all phlebotinum.)
Just for instance: Superman’s invulnerability due to his “dense molecular structure” doesn’t actually make sense. Junior high physics tells you that increased density means more mass. So Supes would have to weigh several tons (!). And clearly, he does not. But introduce a sci-fi “aura” and invulnerability (or strength or heat vision) is wonderfully “explained” and the physics nitpickers are stymied.
Likewise, and as noted, Byrne’s “aura” retroactively rationalizes the traditional unitard costume dating back to 1938. I.e., because the protective “aura” extends a few millimeters beyond the skin, tightfitting clothing is similarly protected. Loose fitting attire, not so much. (Ma Kent figured this out early on.)
Except… except… the “aura” didn’t protect the cape. And as I recall, it would often (post-Byrne) get torn or burned, requiring frequent replacements. (Indeed, just flying at modest speeds should tear any loose fabric. This is why planes don’t fly flags. ) To me, this was a conspicuous flaw in the “aura” concept — inasmuch as it represented an excellent reason to ditch the cape. (Sacrilege!) Moreover, a normal/vulnerable cape means that certain iconic imagery is sacrificed…
… which seems a shame.
Of course, there’s an obvious solution. Just establish that the super costume (including cape) is made of some weird “bio tech” material that — like Superman, himself — emits its own protective and self-healing “aura.” Indeed, in many modern iterations, this seems to be the preferred explanation for the costume’s preternatural durability. But… this pretty much necessitates a Kryptonian origin. So no Ma Kent at the sewing machine.
Final point: as you mentioned, the “aura” is sometimes evoked to explain lapses in common-sense physics. E.g., how could Superman hoist the Golden Gate Bridge at one end and not have the other end collapse? Answer: Supes’ “aura” (via touch) travels out of his body and reinforces the bridge. But this always struck me as a goofy deus ex machina. Also, a frequent complaint is that Superman is just too powerful (and, therefore, boring). Well, one way to depower him (without actually depowering) is to lose the so-called “tactile telekinesis.” It’s often distracting anyway, and tends to break the “willing suspension of disbelief” — not unlike the notorious cellophane from SII or “Great Wall of China Vision” from SIV. So when it comes to saving folks from the Golden Gate Bridge, Superman will have to get... creative.
Forget the aura, I was hoping they'd finally explain that the glasses involve some type of Kryptonian technology.. that alters Clark's appearance.
It wouldn't be unheard of. Harrison Wells used a similar holo disguise on Flash.
I have trouble suspending disbelief on the identity thing (especially with Lois in this episode), because this show aims for such grounded, realistic emotions.. but it's hard to buy into those feelings, when you have something as jarring as Lois not recognizing Clark during that upclose Superman interview. Clark, the man she's supposedly in love with...
Yeah, this was truly a great episode. Everything good has been mentioned here already, I just want to point out once again when we see the car rescue, how brilliant it was to choose a green 90s Chrysler PT Cruiser as a nod to that classic Action Comics issue with Supes on the cover. That car had a significant late 30s retro design, perfect for this reenactment.
Yeah… I’m not the biggest fan of Superman doing interviews or addressing a TV audience. I prefer he be more mysterious and enigmatic (especially since obscurity makes the glasses disguise slightly more plausible). I suppose my opinion is colored by the famous rooftop interview in Superman The Movie. Sure, it was charming and funny and Supes got to see Lois’s underwear (with her full consent!). But the published interview taught Lex Luthor to use lead as an x-ray shield and allowed him to deduce the existence of kryptonite. Moral of the story: don’t do interviews!
I enjoyed the episode and give it high marks. But while others describe this retelling of Superman’s origin as an almost religious experience, I cannot. I’ve just seen too many of them. Indeed, I’ve seen this version of the origin before (though abridged) in the series pilot. …And I could have done without Lois’s TV interview.
On another note, I'm slightly curious about Martha's prophetic dream in that it not only showed her a fully-formed Superman but also allowed for her to get his adult body measurements. lol
Agreed. That's one of the things I didn't like about Man of Steel; Lois meeting Clark with her already knowing he has powers... of course she's going to fall in love with that guy. I prefer the story where she slowly gets to know him.
I was hoping the flashback would last the whole episode and we'd return to our regular scheduled broadcast next episode. I liked that Lois loved Clark rather than Superman. I do wish they didn't reuse footage from the pilot but showed some of it from a different angle.
I thought Superman submitted to Edge rather easily. He could've brought reinforcements. He acts as if he's the only Kryptonian or only hero on this world. He could've easily had Barry Allen speed his family away. It's not like Barry is too busy fighting a big bad at all.
I'm hoping Superman somehow tricked Edge and that he wasn't turned. Maybe it's like in Superman 2 where he seemingly submits to Zod but then crushes his hand because he had reversed the rays while he was safe in the chamber.
Henry Cavill looks like he's trying to balance himself out in one frame there to stop himself from falling by yanking himself upwards. Is that what he was doing in the film? I can't remember.
I wish they explained why Clark started wearing glasses in the first place. Was it because he was trying to disguise himself or because he genuinely needed them? I seem to recall that Kara mentioned in Season 1 of Supergirl that she actually did wear them.
He never wore them before moving to Metropolis. He was even going to see Lana without his glasses on after he returned from the Fortress, until he saw that she had already been taken.
I was also hoping that Clark might've decided he needed a disguise after saving people and that would've been the basis for him to start wearing a costume. Here, it seemed as if Martha just made him one without him even asking (and it also happened to fit perfectly). What if he needed a completely different type of suit like some black stealth jumpsuit for example?
I think this could've been a two-part episode so they could have spent more time with the flashbacks instead of rushing through it. I'm sure most viewers didn't really want to be drawn back to the present as they were enjoying seeing early Superman.
When Clark returned from the Fortress of Solitude to declare his love to Lana but then saw her already taken, how would she know it was him if she hadn't seen him since he was a teen? And also if he had met her that night without his glasses then she would never be fooled ever again when she saw Superman just because now Clark started wearing glasses. Surely she would recognise Clark as Superman in that scenario?
I think it would be easier to have a different personality for Superman than to have a fake one for Clark. He has to be Daily Planet Clark who is clumsy and awkward and unconfident and then Smallville Clark who is not so bumbling but more normal. And then yet another more confident personality for Superman. If Lana and others from Smallville had visited Clark at the Planet years before and knew he never acted like that back in Smallville then surely they would be wondering what are these weird affectations he's suddenly putting on in Metropolis. They would feel that Clark is being a bit of a fake with this different personality in the big city.
Personally I found the submission totally believable.
At what point was he supposed to arrange for reinforcements to arrive?
It seemed to me like he woke up in the fortress after a very humbling post solar flare smack down, knowing that Edge had just promised to kill his entire family. So he threw every last little bit of energy he had left into getting there as fast as he could, not knowing whether he was already too late. That's why he arrived in a heap, panting.
What else was he supposed to do? There was no time to think about it.
But if Superman turns then he'll just end up killing his entire family himself if he's anything like the other version on Steel's earth.
Option 1: Entire family dies in front of your eyes right now while you watch
Option 2: You submit and give your family the chance to arm themselves up with weapons and call in reinforcements, even though they might eventually die anyway after you are turned
I'd go option 2...
Quite the lineup of Shirt-rips by The Man of Steel
Imagine if Clark tripped over that hurdle when running. It could happen as he wouldn't be immune to that just because he's the man of steel. It just means he didn't jump high enough.
Lots of iconic "shirt rip" imagery. But you don't see as many iconic "pull down pants" moments -- which must happen just as often...
Clark flying for (what looked like) the first time was such a joyful, hopeful moment.
I'm thrilled that becoming Superman was Clark's choice and not a responsibility handed down to him from his Kryptonian parents.
The phonebooth. The f***in' phonebooth.
Tyler Hoechlin. Tyler f***in' Hoechlin.
It felt so good watching Lois and Clark be Lois and Clark - Ace Reporters. It made me realize how long it's been since I've seen them like that.
I forgot how terrible the actor who plays young Clark is.
Martha had a "dream" about Clark flying around so she...made him his Superman outfit? Are the writers implying she had some kind of vision of the future? Because...that's lame. Like, really lame.
Honestly, I found that entire chunk of the episode (Clark and Martha discussing the former's plan to become Superman) to be some of the weakest material of the entire series to date. It felt like another silly, heavy-handed, underwhelming CW pilot that I'm suddenly glad was never made.
Okay. Wow. Those shots of the flames from the flamethrower hitting and enveloping Superman are the fakest things I've seen on network television in a generation (I'm exaggerating, of course).
Okay so I think it was astoundingly idiotic for Superman to have A) agreed to an on-camera interview and B) revealed that he'd been raised on Earth his whole life.
Lois and Clark had been dating for "months" at the time of the interview and she didn't recognize him as Superman at all? Not the smile? The hair? The cologne? The voice? Nothing?
Wow, so Jor-El does have a personality. Good to know.
I understand why they didn't want to use other actors for the flashback scenes, but it's legitimately hilarious to watch these actors (whose average age is 39) try and play characters in their early 20's.
"I will not debate reality with this whisper!" So they're just unabashedly stealing from MOS now.
I have a feeling Edge put his father in Clark's body. But if that's not the case and we're subjected to an "evil" Superman that will be saved by "love" and "family," I'm gonna be very disappointed.
Worst episode of the season for me. A lot of the origin was, frankly, terrible and the rest played out like a typical CW soap opera. I hope the next few episodes are a return to form.
What if Tal-Rho discovers in a future episode that he is really human Morgan Edge and that the Eradicator was also used on him to transplant a Kryptonian named Tal-Rho's consciousness and memories into him? And then there are some other false memories implanted in him to make him think he came here as a child and was rejected by humans?
So maybe he's not even Kryptonian at all but human and Morgan Edge is his real identity. Maybe he's not even Kal-El's half brother. How would he even react to that? Would he rethink his hostile takeover of earth if he discovers his whole life here has been a lie?