The Walking Dead Season 8 Episode 8 "How It's Gotta Be" Discussion Thread

[Art Vandelay]

That is probably the #1 reason why I hope it's a fakeout. By doing this, they aren't just cutting one character's development and depth short ... They're cutting TWO characters short.

I don't see how it could be a fakeout. Carl certainly thought he was going to die.

 

[Art Vandelay]

If Riggs didn’t even want to leave and this was all Gimple’s idea, then its inexcusable.

It’s not ballsy, it’s not edgy, it’s not daring, it’s just running the show into the ground for the hell of it.

In my opinion, it's a fireable offence. It started with the dumpster fiasco, then the Negan cliffhanger, which pissed off even the show's most fervent supporters. Then an entire season just to build up to this season. Killing off Carl is a step too far, and seriously affects how the series moves on. I think AMC should start considering a new show runner.

You think Andrew Lincoln was happy with this? I doubt it very much.

 

[kvz5]

This is going to get messy:

Walking Dead’ Star’s Dad Slams Show for Firing His Son: ‘It Hurt Him’

 

[Loki882]

It was also REALLY predictable. That's this shows pattern, when a character gets such a big spot-light episode, chances are pretty good that they're going to die.

 

[kvz5]

It was also REALLY predictable. That's this shows pattern, when a character gets such a big spot-light episode, chances are pretty good that they're going to die.

I really wished that pattern applied to Eugene.

 

[danoyse]

I've been reading that Riggs was told that he was good for the next 3 years when he signed his new contract which is why he bought a house in GA and was planning on going to college there.

Oh wow, if that's true...

I'm not even sure where they're going with this. To be honest, I was ready for it to be Judith, because I suspected that the the little girl in the flash-forward may have been Gracie instead. And neat as a twist like that might have been, I didn't want that to happen either. The show's been miserable enough lately, they didn't need to take out any of the kids.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Riggs wrote the spoiler site TSDF asking them to not spoil this episode and he said something interesting...

Spoiler

"One of the last few seasons of the show"

 

[WereCoyote]

My only comment is Scott Gimple is an assclown. That is all.

 

[Sithborg]

So, based on the interview with Riggs on THR, they just fridged Carl. Cool.

It has been a while since he had a new showrunner. I would say it is time for one.

 

[squeekness]

I really wished that pattern applied to Eugene.

Eugene will outlast them all!

 

[Elevator Man]

So we had to wait till the eighth episode for the plot to progress. For the most part the mid season finale was mostly setting up plotlines for 8b.

Spoiler

Aaron and Enid are now prisoners of the Oceanside community, Jadis and her trash colony escaped to fight another day once again, Rick and co. must seek refuge someplace else again, Dwight’s cover is blown, Gavin is holding Ezekiel prisoner at the Kingdom, Eugene discreetly helped Gabriel and Carson escape the sanctuary, etc. It didn’t really tie up any loose ends from 8a. Sure the ASZ is lost, Carl was infected, Negan retaliated against the alliance between the three communities, but it’s basically dragging this war out till the end of the season, which I figured it would.

The promo for 8b looks like more of the same e.g. Team Rick vs. Team Negan round 4. By the end of the season Rick and co. would have been dealing with the Saviors for nearly three seasons. I wish Gimple had the cojones to end All Out War in 8a. Instead of milking it to carry an entire season b/c it’s obvious that this story arc cannot carry 16 episodes. I was already bored with the war against Negan before Season 8 even started. It’s absurd that they waited for the 8th episode for Negan to finally retaliate against the communities at war with him. They should’ve had Negan and co. escape the herd by episode 8.4. Seeing them retaliate now doesn’t add much tension for me. Especially since this is like the 4th time Negan’s gotten the upper hand on everyone.

Spoiler

I’m indifferent to Rick & co. losing the ASZ because they’ve lost four refuges prior to the ASZ. So I’ve been numb to the group repeatedly losing a home and then finding another one. Plus they’ll probably move in with the Kingdom or Hilltop once the war is over. It’s repetitive at this point for them lose another refuge.

Instead of killing off Jadis and co. the writers have them escape to fight live another day. This group brings little to nothing to the show. The garbage group are written to be weird for weird sake. They had the opportunity to get rid of them for good in this episode but decided to keep them around to stretch out the current story arc for another eight episodes. This group is also useless. They couldn’t subdue Rick, who’s arms were tied and was holding off a walker in the process.

Spoiler

Since Gimple likes to stay close to the source material I doubt he planned to kill off Carl. So I’m assuming Chandler Riggs wanted to move on from Carl and TWD to focus on school, other opportunities, etc.. I wasn’t emotional or upset that Carl was bitten/dying. I wish I could’ve felt something because the character has been around since the beginning. I believed TWD was as much his story as it was Rick’s. Plus this is breaking canon from the comics. It was hard for me to feel anything due to his lack of character development these past couple of seasons. Season 4 was the last time he had a strong character arc, imo.

The signs of his character being killed off were apparent throughout the episode with the flashback of him and Rick having a conversation about showing mercy to people including his enemies, him writing a letter to Rick almost as if it was his will, etc. Carl being bitten a couple of episodes ago, while helping Siddiq free walker souls, took away the impact as well. Doesn’t help when looking back at that particular episode Carl put himself in that situation in the first place. If Gimple felt the need for Carl to die then I rather he had been a casualty of war. Carl getting bit occurred during a moment that was unrelated to the war. Also for a season that’s centered around war most of the casualties have been background characters from each community. Which makes it difficult for anything to feel is at stake for Rick & co. The first major character death of the season will be the midseason premiere when the fever kills Carl. It’s a shame because I was anticipating Carl being the one to take out Simon. Due to their stare downs and Simon flicking his hat. Looks like they’re setting up Maggie to kill Simon now.

Carl’s death also confirms that old man Rick wasn’t a flash forward because Carl was featured in it (during the season premiere). I assumed that moment was a Rick dreaming.

So the show is going to ignore the fact that Daryl and Tara were at fault giving the saviors the opportunity they needed to take action against the herd, by having Dwight lie about Eugene being the cause for the Saviors escape.

Spoiler

Enid and Aaron being prisoners of the Oceanside community feels so contrived. This subplot is only there to pad out the season. As well as give something to keep Aaron and Enid occupied. So instead of informing Maggie or Paul about embarking on a trip to the Oceanside colony to convince them to join the fight. They covertly take a road trip to Oceanside accidentally kill the colony’s leader. Once again characters making asinine decisions to move the plot forward or cause conflict. So now they’ll either be executed or held captive. Maggie and Paul haven’t any clue that they took a secret trip let alone where they went, which was why they should’ve told them their plan in case anything happened. Also after taking the colony’s guns I doubt either could’ve convinced Natania into joining them. Now after killing their leader they’re going to have to do some serious convincing/negotiating.

I thought the scene between Maggie and Simon was tense and well acted. As well as when she killed that savior in cold blood. Simon and this war for that matter seem to have brought out Maggie’s dark side. Somewhat looking forward to how that’ll play out in 8b. One positive I will say about this season is that appreciate the writers putting more effort into Maggie’s character growth as leader.

Even though the plot progressed a little bit the midseason finale, which didn’t need to be 90 minutes long, was underwhelming, imo. It was basically a tease for 8b which based on the promos looks to be very tedious. Season 8 so far has been mediocre with all the mundane shootouts, gun battles, and car chases that belong more on the A-team than TWD. Writers continue to force characters to make dumb decisions to either move the plot forward, cause conflict, or don‘t amount to anything just to fill a certain amount of episodes. This storyline has been an "All Out Bore" on the show so far.

 

[Art Vandelay]

It's been confirmed by Chandler Riggs that he still wanted to do the show. This is entirely on Gimple.

 

[squeekness]

Sucks.

 

[Leenie]

Oh damn.

Welp. I think I'm finally going to peace out and quit on this show. This season has been pretty damn bad. I'm always half watching it/half playing on the computer or smart phone nowadays anyway.

 

[squeekness]

I haven't given up. Things picked up after the prison which bored me, maybe they will again.

 

[Sithborg]

I look at Gimple on the Talking Dead, and to me, it is clear he doesn't get it. He genuinely does not understand the criticism of this show.

And the fact the Carl's death seems to be all about working Rick's story, it is clear he doesn't value these characters.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Gimple seems like he doesn't even know what the show is about. He couldn't give a simple answer when asked about when Carl was bitten. Dude talks in the cryptic riddles his characters do. Siddiq's actor was on Talking Dead and said he didn't know what the character was talking about or what it meant so he had to ask Gimple.

Everything Rick did to keep Carl alive, a big part of the show, means nothing now. 7 years gone.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I look at Gimple on the Talking Dead, and to me, it is clear he doesn't get it. He genuinely does not understand the criticism of this show.

And the fact the Carl's death seems to be all about working Rick's story, it is clear he doesn't value these characters.

If there was a problem regarding how Negan would factor into Rick's ongoing storyline, the answer would be to just kill Negan. But Gimple is so enamored with this character from the comics, that he doesn't get that Negan doesn't quite work in the context of the show. So in his mind, the only way to get him to work is to kill off Carl. This is such short sighted thinking. The phrase "Kill your darlings" comes to mind, that is if the idea you love doesn't work for the narrative, you let it go.

Another phrase comes to mind. That the show has cut its nose to spite its face.

 

[Lantern Venom]

This is going to get messy:

Walking Dead’ Star’s Dad Slams Show for Firing His Son: ‘It Hurt Him’

I thought there was a slim chance that this was a swerve, but when I read the quote from Chandler's dad, it seems to be a done deal. It's fair to say that any actor on this show should know that his/her character might be killed off. However, if they promised Chandler another three years then did a 180 because of the sagging ratings, that's underhanded.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I’m kinda torn on this. I feel like the show needed to kill at least one character we gave a crap about. But on the other hand, maybe they just need to kill off some of the dead weight that adds nothing to the show.

Enid? She’s useless.

Rosita? Seriously, she’s awful.

Simon? Good God, put a bullet in his head. Same with that other ugly Savior who took over the kingdom.

Dwight? He’s served his purpose. Kill him.

Gregory? How has someone NOT killed him yet?

Eugene? I used to like him but now I wish someone would kill him every time he opens his mouth.

Tara? She also serves no purpose anymore.

And please for the love of God, line up all the Trash People in front of a firing squad.

Time to thin the herd.

 

[Elevator Man]

You think Andrew Lincoln was happy with this? I doubt it very much.

It wouldn't surprise me if season 8 ends up being his final season. Lincoln's been very vocal about the show moving forward without Rick Grimes. And his contract expires at the end of the season. Not to mention the show gradually declining in quality and ratings. AMC being sued (by Darabont, Kirkman, Mazzara, Anne Hurd, and Alpert) for being greedy cheapskates. Now the [BLACKOUT]death of Carl Grimes[/BLACKOUT]. It's a good time as any to jump ship.

Wonder how Kirkman feels about this deviation from the comics?

 

[Neptune]

I really enjoyed the tense scenes in this episode. Carl & Negan, Simon & Maggie, King Ezekiel saving his people and Maggie killing off that annoying savior. Her transition into a leader is well written.

Carl dying doesn't affect me. I always found his character insufferable and Chandler is not that good of an actor. Although i've never read the comics and apparently Carl is supposed to play a big role in the later arcs.

And i totally agree with Squeeks, the Jadis group is absolutely useless. They can't do anything right, except for betraying the good guys. I hope they're dead and i want to see a lot more saviors die as well. Although not Simon because the actor is basicly playing his GTA 5 character and he is awesome.

Also, i'm starting to like Dwight.

 

[WereCoyote]

And i totally agree with Squeeks, the Jadis group is absolutely useless. They can't do anything right, except for betraying the good guys. I hope they're dead and i want to see a lot more saviors die as well. Although not Simon because the actor is basicly playing his GTA 5 character and he is awesome.

Also, i'm starting to like Dwight.

Basically when Gimple was sort of following the comics people complained, so now he has decided to go 180 and just piss on the comics. Keeps saving and giving prominent screen time to characters not in the comics, Daryl, Enid, and the Garbage people.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I feel like they should change the tagline for this season to ALL OUT BORE.


(I'm sure someone has already made that joke, but what the hell.)


I'm trying to hang in with this show, but it's been tough. At least I didn't find myself fast forwarding through this episode like I did with the previous two. But man, so much of this season has just felt like a waste of time. So many pointless scenes, like the whole thing with Enid and Aaron going to a distillery, or Rick appeasing the Trash People again just to have them **** him over again, TWICE. I had hoped that the mediocrity of last season meant it was building up to something really good and the Comic Con trailer got me excited. But this has just been a suckfest.

 

[Art Vandelay]

And i totally agree with Squeeks, the Jadis group is absolutely useless. They can't do anything right, except for betraying the good guys. I hope they're dead and i want to see a lot more saviors die as well.

From a storytelling perspective, yes, the garbage people are useless. But from a production standpoint, they're necessary. They exist as cheap actors to use. I doubt, for example, Jadis is making the money Jeffrey Dean Morgan is making.

This also applies to the supporting cast. An Aaron and Enid pairing might not make for good television, but it's cheaper than using Andrew Lincoln and Norman Reedus on screen together. Plus, dealing with so many different communities, we kind of need these supporting characters, at least until the war is over.