Sequel? Your Thoughts...

[Nivek]

problem is that The Punisher IS a profitable character if done right.

After 3 failed films, what evidence do you have to back that up? Even his comics are not big sellers, just consistent.

Book keepers decide what projects get made, I dont think there is a chance in hell of seeing another Punisher film for at least 5-8 years.

 

[Heretic]

I recommend calling it Star Wars Episode 7: The Punisher

 

[dft-313]

After 3 failed films, what evidence do you have to back that up? Even his comics are not big sellers, just consistent.

Book keepers decide what projects get made, I dont think there is a chance in hell of seeing another Punisher film for at least 5-8 years.

You're right, but there's a market for solid action movies, if made well and marketed well. On that budget, with the technology we have now, and considering what Hensleigh did with MUCH less - why couldn't they make it decent?

They just need a decent actor (say Thomas Jane), a decent director with an eye for action, but with a quirky approach and decent ability with actors who'll work on a low budget (Kathryn Bigelow or Brian Helgeland), a good script (the toughest part, but i think Helgeland's a good choice) based on a solid story where you can reveal the origin and a good budget of maybe $50 million.

Then you just need to market it as a brutal action movie, without the revenge thriller elements - the part that's the hardest to do in an interesting fashion.

 

[Nivek]

But the Punisher is about Revenge (regardless of the fan psychobabble). I just don't want Troma Films style revenge, I want something along the lines of Kevin Bacon's Death Sentence. I didn't think it would be this hard to translate the character.

 

[PUNISHERo]

There isn't going to be another Punisher movie. The Punisher's film career is Dead.

sadly, this is true. All we can do is hope people flock to see it this weekend, but I dont think they will. And hope the DVDs sales are really good.

 

[Nivek]

Well, word of mouth wise, whenever I have told people that I'm disapointed in it, I get a responce like "Well duh, you mean you thought it looked good?"

No amount of praise can fix general perception like that.

 

[CrimsonMist]

i think Marvel should get the character back, as well as any other characters they don't own, and once Marvel is finished turning every single one of their characters into a movie, they should make a Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe movie. Take some liberties with that story, of course, but keep everything else the same. It would be awesome.

 

[PUNISHERo]

The 04' Punisher did make money. And the DVD sales where really good. Maby if DVD sales are good we will see another Punisher. But chances are not good.

 

[Heretic]

Even though the story would be stupid, I bet a Marvel Knights movie made up of guys like Blade, Ghost Rider, Punisher and Daredevil would outperform the individual movies.

 

[Microchip]

After 3 failed films, what evidence do you have to back that up? Even his comics are not big sellers, just consistent.

Even though the story would be stupid, I bet a Marvel Knights movie made up of guys like Blade, Ghost Rider, Punisher and Daredevil would outperform the individual movies.

Daredevil can't be that much more popular than the Punisher, but his movie (which I thought was below average, but I'm a big fan of the Director's Cut) made 102 million domestically on a 78 million budget. Of course, that movie had big names attached to it. I mean, we've got Punisher, with Thomas Jane. Ooooohh, THAT'S going to drive people to the theatre. And then comes P:WZ, with even less starpower. Both have relatively no budget for the films they are trying to be.

So why are you expecting them to magically do well? Nobody went and saw this because they (a)didn't know what it was from a fairly bad marketing campaign, and (b)didn't want to see a Punisher film that looked worse than an already bad previous one.

Punisher can be profitable, he just needs a GOOD movie. Something that doesn't just appeal to the die-hards. Even if they can't find the big names, they can still make a good, appealing movie. Blade did that.

 

[dft-313]

But the Punisher is about Revenge (regardless of the fan psychobabble). I just don't want Troma Films style revenge, I want something along the lines of Kevin Bacon's Death Sentence. I didn't think it would be this hard to translate the character.

The origin is about revenge at first, but the tagline of the 2004 movie seemed right to me: This is not revenge, it's punishment.

I love that sentiment - any emotional satsifaction he'd have taken by murdering his family's killers is destroyed by him losing the humanity that made him care in the first place.

*That's why i've never understood the Punisher/Man On Fire comparisons (both kill bad people, but Washington's quest to get the girl back is part of him reclaiming his humanity).*

Once Castle continues on with the aim of avenging the helpless, he becomes a catalyst for the downfall of those criminals around him. I think you get a lot out of him by having him questions his motivations, deny the turmoil he's burying.

It doesn't have to be a think piece, but a straight thriller that puts him in a situation where he's exposed like that would be a good film dramatically and for action. I agree with Punisher_MAX's opinion that The Slavers would make a great Punisher film, and could be used to reveal his backstory over the course of the film.

It's a moot point, The Punisher is dead as far as film goes for at least 5 years. I say we look for a team of machinimators and give them a script and pay Thomas Jane to do the voice out of our own pockets.

 

[Heretic]

You arent going to get your "good" Punisher movie. Without some silly scriptwriting inserting him into someone elses movie, there simply isnt any reason to give Punisher another chance at losing money.

I have always said that Punisher is Marvels EASIEST to translate film. Again, I think any idiot with a handheld, limitless bullets and Henry Rollins could have made a brutal and awesome Punisher movie. We dont need any comic relief, we dont need complex stories. We just need an awesome story of violence. There is no reasonw hy Punisher, once you add some brains to the franchise, couldnt be kind of Death Wish meets James Bond type franchise.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

Man on Fire is being called by you guys a good Punisher movie...well thats why I'd like to get Tony Scott to direct a Punisher movie. Use The Slavers arc, a good budget and a brilliantly adapted script and we have an awesome Punisher movie.

 

[CASk8er87]

Henry Rollins as the Punisher? Hmm...never thought about that. Sounds interesting.

 

[dft-313]

Man on Fire is being called by you guys a good Punisher movie...well thats why I'd like to get Tony Scott to direct a Punisher movie. Use The Slavers arc, a good budget and a brilliantly adapted script and we have an awesome Punisher movie.

I thought Man On Fire was utter garbage - supremely pompous, utterly lacking in story and completely nonsensical. I also thought the "action" was non-existent and it was sadistic.

Other than that, I've never rated the younger Scott brother. I can't think of any great film he's made ever - he's got all the flash, but none of the heart.

i'd point to Kathryn Bigelow as the best choice. She's underrated after a few years of doing almost nothing, but Near Dark, Point Break, Blue Steel and Strange Days all show she can handle action, drama (ignoring Point Break) and FX. Also, she's not stupidly macho and into flash for flashes sake.

and nobody tells her what to do with her films - especially with a powerful ally in James Cameron.

 

[dft-313]

Henry Rollins as the Punisher? Hmm...never thought about that. Sounds interesting.

I remember a few people mentioning him when the 2004 Punisher was in development. I can't see how it would work - he's got the bulk, but he's noone's idea of a good actor.

i do like his bit part in Heat though.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

I enjoyed Man on Fire. Scott or Mann, imo, would do well with The Punisher. I personally liked Collateral by Mann.

 

[nomad662]

Here's my ideal Punisher sequel:

A story military in theme, but not Viet Nam. Something contemporary: Russia or Afghanistan.

Screenplay by Garth Ennis.

Directed and starring Ray Stevenson.

Keeping Steve Gainer (DP), Michael Wandmacher (composer) and Andrew Neskoromny (production designer).

AND (prepare for heresy, no matter what side of the fence you're on)

Spoiler

Tom Jane as Nick Fury! Now, before you go crazy, think about this! 1) Huge publicity advantages that may inspire an enhanced budget. 2) A geek's wet dream, Punisher vs Punisher! 3) Uniting the fan base and possibly saving The Punisher as a viable cinematic subject.

I'm having a geekgasm!

Nomad

 

[Kable24]

Here's my ideal Punisher sequel:

A story military in theme, but not Viet Nam. Something contemporary: Russia or Afghanistan.

Screenplay by Garth Ennis.

Directed and starring Ray Stevenson.

Keeping Steve Gainer (DP), Michael Wandmacher (composer) and Andrew Neskoromny (production designer).

AND (prepare for heresy, no matter what side of the fence you're on)

Spoiler

Tom Jane as Nick Fury! Now, before you go crazy, think about this! 1) Huge publicity advantages that may inspire an enhanced budget. 2) A geek's wet dream, Punisher vs Punisher! 3) Uniting the fan base and possibly saving The Punisher as a viable cinematic subject.

I'm having a geekgasm!

Nomad

Screenplay by Garth Ennis - He can write comics, but I don't want him writing the movie. Who knows if he can even write a movie. And if he does just remember it will be 3/4 of villain development and very little Punisher

Directed and starring Ray Stevenson - Acting in most definitely. Directing the movie is no way in Hell going to happen.

Keeping Steve Gainer (DP), Michael Wandmacher (composer) and Andrew Neskoromny (production designer). - The only one of those I would keep is the composer. I don't want another 100 minutes of pretty purple and yellow lighting.

 

[Nivek]

No sequel. Cable series is the way to go, if anyone will put up the money for it after this theatrical reception.

 

[dft-313]

I'd like to see Jane as Fury. But that's another concept. In fact, I'm going to start a Nick Fury the Movie campaign.

Anyway, no "action" directors. they're the kiss of death now - name an action movie director who actually makes good fims - not enjoyable rubbish, but good films that can be enjoyed as more than sturm und drang silliness. In the 70s and 80s you had tons of those guys. There's not the same discipline.

If you must, pick Kathryn Bigelow - at least she'd approach it from a suitably gritty perspective - and she can work with actors. Even the super glitzy Strange Days had a really grimy, nasty vibe to it.

I thinka TV mini-series is the way to go, preferably animated. Look at the CGI for the game of a few years ago - I'd say go for that look and get Jane to do the voice.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

If the next movie wanted to keep the over the topness and stuff i wouldnt mind letting Robert Rodriguez do it...Desperado is one of my all time favorite movies so yeah.

 

[HoboJoe]

IF that happens and it takes 15-20 years or so to do this movie. IMO they should make it a period piece, if that makes sense. They should do a good 2-3 hour movie that introduces Frank Castle in Vietnam, going through some of the Vietnam storylines, ending with Born. Going back to the states, sees his family then it flash forwards 3-4 years to 1976 and shows the crossfire and his family's death. The rest of the movie would be him killing his way to the top, over a few years. Coming up with great weapon and tactic combinations that confound police, FBI, and the mob. Frank Castle becomes almost a modern day Robin Hood, an ultra-violent one, in the eyes of the public, and a few cops.

If it was successfull each new movie could take place in a different decade. Showing the times, and Frank change. Ending with an older looking MAX style Frank and could even do a The End type storyline...who knows. If Marvel would grow a pair and get some good funding and writers they could make it work.

 

[Clark Kent]

After 3 failed films, what evidence do you have to back that up? Even his comics are not big sellers, just consistent.

Book keepers decide what projects get made, I dont think there is a chance in hell of seeing another Punisher film for at least 5-8 years.

5-8 years? Are you kidding me? This isn't Hulk, or even Batman & Robin. They've tried starting this franchise three times now, and this one has done even worse than the last one. Wikipedia are saying that this is the biggest financial flop for Marvel since Howard the Duck. And you just said yourself even the comics aren't big sellers. Mark my words, if there is EVER another Punisher movie, I'd say it won't be for at least another 25 years, seriously.

 

[Microchip]

Screenplay by Garth Ennis - He can write comics, but I don't want him writing the movie. Who knows if he can even write a movie. And if he does just remember it will be 3/4 of villain development and very little Punisher

Directed and starring Ray Stevenson - Acting in most definitely. Directing the movie is no way in Hell going to happen.

Keeping Steve Gainer (DP), Michael Wandmacher (composer) and Andrew Neskoromny (production designer). - The only one of those I would keep is the composer. I don't want another 100 minutes of pretty purple and yellow lighting.

I'd like to see a DTDVD (being reasonable here, I know this won't get another 35 million budget theatrical release, at least if it's a sequel) with somewhere between 5 and 10 million for the budget.

Star Ray Stevenson for sure. I was kind of intrigued by someone bringing up Rob Zombie to direct before, but I'm not sure he has the range beyond the slasher bloodfest type films.

For story, I'd TRY to adapt the Slavers. It doesn't seem like it needs a big budget. I'd drop the part about the 2 cops, add some more about the Punisher as a character.

If Gainer stays, I'd like a bit less intense lighting, but enough to keep the sequel tied to the last movie. The score was great, so keep that guy too.