Seven Dead in Drive-By Shooting Near UC Santa Barbara

[DA_Champion]

A blogger went undercover to visit one of the INCEL-discussion groups.

http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-spent-with-the-ucsb-shooters-awful-f-1582884301

 

[Anita18]

A blogger went undercover to visit one of the INCEL-discussion groups.

http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-spent-with-the-ucsb-shooters-awful-f-1582884301

This stuff really makes you feel like you don't want to live on the planet anymore.

I don't know what a good solution for this kind of hate speech is. On the one hand, yeah, you should be free to share your opinion, but on the other hand....is it a belief that we should encourage? It's not helping society. It's not empowering anyone. The men who subscribe to this misogyny (or white supremacists about racism, etc) are helping each other believe they are victims, when that is not the reality at all. Their speech is not going to result in a policy change. The change that we can expect from their speech are acts of violence.

 

[Snow Queen]

A blogger went undercover to visit one of the INCEL-discussion groups.

http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-spent-with-the-ucsb-shooters-awful-f-1582884301

Well....that's not horrifying, disturbing and revolting at all....

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Scum of the Earth. But what can be done about them? These people have deep-seated mental issues. They're not the kind of reasonable souls who will have epiphanies based on social media activism, or a good heart-to-heart with a therapist. I guess the site could be shut down, but they'd just build another. There really is no way we can ever completely rid ourselves of these kind of losers. They'll always be around.

 

[charl_huntress]

This stuff really makes you feel like you don't want to live on the planet anymore.

I don't know what a good solution for this kind of hate speech is. On the one hand, yeah, you should be free to share your opinion, but on the other hand....is it a belief that we should encourage? It's not helping society. It's not empowering anyone. The men who subscribe to this misogyny (or white supremacists about racism, etc) are helping each other believe they are victims, when that is not the reality at all. Their speech is not going to result in a policy change. The change that we can expect from their speech are acts of violence.

You can also expect a rallying call for people opposed to that speech, and efforts to spread positive speech in opposition. Though allowing the speech serves no real purpose, to disallow it would be a travesty for all. My opinion...

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I agree if the shooter was truly mentally ill he wouldn't be able to talk his way out of a police search.

 

[Paradoxium]

You can't be a white knight and a misogynist at the same time.

This guy gave up on the white knight concept to become the ultimate bad boy.

And where do you get the idea that only white knights seek validation through sex? Plenty of non-white knights do the same thing.

He had white knight ideas of what a girl SHOULD want, and therefore he was entitled to.

It failed, and he got mad at the world.

He went down the PUAHate rabbit hole, and reasons (warped one) it is the world's fault and not his responsibility to correct/adapt himself. Hence his misanthropy. Therefore, his revenge towards the world.

 

[Tempest]

Scum of the Earth. But what can be done about them? These people have deep-seated mental issues. They're not the kind of reasonable souls who will have epiphanies based on social media activism, or a good heart-to-heart with a therapist. I guess the site could be shut down, but they'd just build another. There really is no way we can ever completely rid ourselves of these kind of losers. They'll always be around.

Misogyny is not a mental illness, psychiatric disorder, or personality disorder. It's a societal problem.

 

[PyroChamber]

A blogger went undercover to visit one of the INCEL-discussion groups.

http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-spent-with-the-ucsb-shooters-awful-f-1582884301

You know, I'd be lying if I said that I've never had thoughts to where I thought girls didn't like me and only wanted *******s; hell I think we've all felt this way at some point, but this is just too extreme.

Just from looking at those comments; this whole anti-PUA thing ,which I'm just now hearing about, is just an extreme version of the whole "nice guys/bad boys" discussion.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Misogyny is not a mental illness, psychiatric disorder, or personality disorder. It's a societal problem.

I wasn't talking about misogyny in general. I was talking about the website PUAHate, genius. Those particular people are obviously sociopaths and/or mentally ill.

 

[Paradoxium]

I don't get you guys. How the hell does he get a pass on killing more guys, wanting to torture/flay guys, and makes outrageous racist remarks (on guys). Yet it's all about women and misogyny. I ain't saying he wasn't mad at women, I'm saying he was pretty misanthropic.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't understand why these guys are so resentful.

If the world says you can't have a certain trophy (beautiful blonde) then maybe you're aiming for the wrong kind of trophies in life.

These guys desperately need of a plan B. Literally billions of people have dealt with rejection but they find a way to move forward.

They don't let the rejection fester like an infected wound.

 

[Anita18]

You can also expect a rallying call for people opposed to that speech, and efforts to spread positive speech in opposition. Though allowing the speech serves no real purpose, to disallow it would be a travesty for all. My opinion...

Oh I know, but it's not even speech in the way that our founding fathers thought of it. They're building communities where they are encouraged to be as hateful as they want, which breeds even more hate. They shut themselves off from any ideas that don't support their own, because they have this community that says they are right. The only time they poke their heads out to engage with the real world is to throw acts of violence and hate at it.

But I agree that shutting them down will do no good. Of course they'll just make another.

I guess we'll just have to do our best in the general society to make this kind of thinking Not Okay, and trust that the hateful will eventually sort itself out.

 

[Anita18]

I don't get you guys. How the hell does he get a pass on killing more guys, wanting to torture/flay guys, and makes outrageous racist remarks (on guys). Yet it's all about women and misogyny. I ain't saying he wasn't mad at women, I'm saying he was pretty misanthropic.

Because he hated those men most for having the women he wanted. It all came down to women.

 

[Paradoxium]

Is it because the two girls are white and this makes them more important?

I think the action of killing twice as much guys says more.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Is it because the two girls are white and this makes them more important?

I think the action of killing twice as much guys says more.

He panicked and probably killed whoever he could in the short time he had. Or he could have resented good-looking guys who he thought had more luck with women than him. Who knows how his mind worked. It's absolutely 100% undeniable he was a raging misogynist though. That shouldn't even be up for debate.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't get you guys. How the hell does he get a pass on killing more guys, wanting to torture/flay guys, and makes outrageous racist remarks (on guys). Yet it's all about women and misogyny. I ain't saying he wasn't mad at women, I'm saying he was pretty misanthropic.

But it seemed like his hatred for women fueled his hatred for other groups.

Like a racist who hates liberals as a byproduct of their hatred for blacks.

 

[Tempest]

I don't get you guys. How the hell does he get a pass on killing more guys, wanting to torture/flay guys, and makes outrageous racist remarks (on guys). Yet it's all about women and misogyny. I ain't saying he wasn't mad at women, I'm saying he was pretty misanthropic.

I know he was racist, and I know he wanted to kill other men.

But the ugly truth is that if people don't carry on about the subject of misogyny, it'll get lost in the discussions about guns and mental illness, and racism. Those are all important topics, but when it comes to violence, abuse, or dangerous behavior towards women, it tends to be counted as...less important.

It is very important that men understand how women are feeling, and to acknowledge and address this problem, which is so prevalent in society.

Go to twitter, and look at the feed #YesAllWomen.

And read this article. It may help. http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/05/27/not_all_men_how_discussing_women_s_issues_gets_derailed.html

Reading them was jarring, unsettling. I have many friends who are vocal feminists, and it’s all too easy to see what they deal with for the crime of Being a Woman on the Internet. But this hashtag did more than deal with the rape threats, the predators, the violence.

It was the everyday sexism, the everyday misogyny, which struck home. The leering, the catcalls, the groping, the societal othering, the miasma of all this that women bear the brunt of every damn day.

Those tweets say it far better than I ever could, for many reasons. The most important is because I’m a man, so I haven’t lived through what they have. I can’t possibly understand it at the level they do, no matter how deeply disturbed I am by the situation and how sympathetic I may be to what they’ve gone through.

Basically, to make it about the guys he killed, and not about his outrageous, dangerous, and sadly, not-uncommon beliefs about the female gender, you are marginalizing an entire group of people whom he was attempting to act out against.

Really, if you think about what he's saying, he blames the women that the men are dating. Yes, he was angry at men, and yes he killed them, but it all goes back towards his belief that the women are wasting their time and energy on unworthy males.

 

[Paradoxium]

If I read the news, the impression I get, is only TWO WHITE GIRLS were shot. Hence the rage about gun control and women women. Nevermind his KNIFE KILLING 3 other dudes (!), at least one minority, and shooting another one.

What is this, white upper-middle-class women media privilege? I remember minority women raising a huge stink on this subject matter actually.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Is it because the two girls are white and this makes them more important?

I think the action of killing twice as much guys says more.

I don't think killing spree victims are an exact reflection of a person's rage.

It's about moment-to-moment opportunity.

 

[Tempest]

But it seemed like his hatred for women fueled his hatred for other groups.

Like a racist who hates liberals as a byproduct of their hatred for blacks.

This.

 

[Tempest]

If I read the news, the impression I get, is only TWO WHITE GIRLS were shot. Hence the rage about gun control and women women. Nevermind his KNIFE KILLING 3 other dudes (!), at least one minority, and shooting another one.

What is this, white upper-middle-class women media privilege? I remember minority women raising a huge stink on this subject matter actually.

Link?

And this may help you too:

It’s been happening in the comments section of every article about the Isla Vista, California shooting. People try to talk about the misogyny behind the shootings, and someone, frankly a male, steps in to write about how more men were killed than women by Elliott Rodgers. They believe this somehow proves that Mr. Rodgers wasn’t a sexist, it seems. It isn’t altogether clear what point they want to make given the volumes of other evidence that this disturbed, young man was steeped in hatred of women. Mr. Rodgers also did hate men. He was filled with a seething hatred toward the world, born of a warped view of gender, race, and class. Simply put, his orientation toward men was rooted in his perspective that women were objects of sexual conquest and men were alpha or beta competitors standing in the way of his sexual release. He complained that desirable women went off with this alpha male or that one. We know of his complaints, because he spent so much time in online forums or on Youtube expressing these thoughts. He also left behind a lengthy manifesto.

From this article: http://www.politicususa.com/2014/05/27/no-fact-rodgers-killed-men-women-doesnt-change-fact-misogynist.html

 

[Farren]

If I read the news, the impression I get, is only TWO WHITE GIRLS were shot. Hence the rage about gun control and women women. Nevermind his KNIFE KILLING 3 other dudes (!), at least one minority, and shooting another one.

What is this, white upper-middle-class women media privilege? I remember minority women raising a huge stink on this subject matter actually.

Dude, no one is arguing that there was ONLY misogyny here: just that we think it was THE MAIN driving force. He was obviously racist, and entitled and seriously lacking in empathy in general. And we can and should talk about those things. This doesn't have to be a zero sum game. But recognize the vein of misogyny that ran through his entire manifest/video: He pointed SOLELY to women in his video, and in his manifesto he blamed his mother for not marrying someone wealthier; he blamed women for favoring races he considered beneath his own. A LOT of this went back to women.

 

[DA_Champion]

Is it because the two girls are white and this makes them more important?

I think the action of killing twice as much guys says more.

That is circumstantial.

He showed up at a sorority and nobody was home. If he had come at a different time of day there might have been 20 or 30 women dead.

 

[Anita18]

That is circumstantial.

He showed up at a sorority and nobody was home. If he had come at a different time of day there might have been 20 or 30 women dead.

Yup. He said specifically, he wanted to shoot up the sorority. I suppose he failed in that part...He likely flipped out after that and started shooting at anyone and everyone, but there's not doubt that sorority was the main target.