Seven Dead in Drive-By Shooting Near UC Santa Barbara

[Octoberist]

A blogger went undercover to visit one of the INCEL-discussion groups.

http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-spent-with-the-ucsb-shooters-awful-f-1582884301

Digusting.

 

[Paradoxium]

Last year, #solidarityisforwhitewomen a bunch of minority women were using it. I think it is still being used.

The killer was obsessed with blondes who are white girls. The vast majority of women writers doing op-eds on Rodgers, are white women. The non-whites (if any) are basically SWPL.

If Rodger failed at finding a single white woman, and shot up skinny asian guys - maybe Pink Ranger was right - this story would be buried in the comedy section of HuffPo.

 

[Paradoxium]

If you guys want to be so particular. How it is not misantrophy, then call it what it is.

Middleclass-White-Misogyny.

Don't gimme this BS it is all women. His entire diatribe and flip switch were nothing but white blonde girls.

I wonder if this news would get such passionate coverage (as misogyny and not racism) if he had shot up black women.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Clicks on thread.

………..


Clicks out of thread.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

If I read the news, the impression I get, is only TWO WHITE GIRLS were shot. Hence the rage about gun control and women women. Nevermind his KNIFE KILLING 3 other dudes (!), at least one minority, and shooting another one.

What is this, white upper-middle-class women media privilege? I remember minority women raising a huge stink on this subject matter actually.

3 of the men he killed were his room mates. He had to kill them first(and quietly) to free up the apartment to carry out his plan. He was going to lure a bunch of couples to his apartment and kill enough of them so that he could roll their severed heads out across a sorority yard and then kill all the sorority girls there.

Luckily he didn't get to that part of his plan.

He hated the alpha males(for so effortlessly getting what he wanted) as much as he hated the sorority women(for so easily giving the alpha males what they wanted instead of to him).

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

3 of the men he killed were his room mates. He had to kill them first(and quietly) to free up the apartment to carry out his plan. He was going to lure a bunch of couples to his apartment and kill enough of them so that he could roll their severed heads out across a sorority yard and then kill all the sorority girls there.

Luckily he didn't get to that part of his plan.

He hated the alpha males(for so effortlessly getting what he wanted) as much as he hated the sorority women(for so easily giving the alpha males what they wanted instead of to him).

He also hated women for choosing "lowly" ethnic men over him.

This guy didn't deserve a GF.

 

[Tempest]

If you guys want to be so particular. How it is not misantrophy, then call it what it is.

Middleclass-White-Misogyny.

Don't gimme this BS it is all women. His entire diatribe and flip switch were nothing but white blonde girls.

I wonder if this news would get such passionate coverage (as misogyny and not racism) if he had shot up black women.

Your last posts are the reason why misogyny needs to be brought up, and discussed at length about this case -- and in general. Why?

Because you don't want to talk about it. You want to distance the topic of misogyny as far as you can from this conversation. You want to bury it under misanthropy or misandry or racism or mental illness or whatever...just so long as the topic about women is safely out of the way.

If you want to discuss other aspects of this case, that's fine. No one is questioning that. But you will get called on it if you try to bury or dismiss the flagrant misogyny in this case.

And let's be clear: He killed men, yes, and he wanted to kill men. This is not a case of him hating men. Think of it when people murder because of money. He wanted a particular "item" those men had. In other words, he wanted to "own" all the women.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/25706-after-elliot-rodger-yesallwomen-trends-on-twitter-as-a-response-to-the-not-all-men-fools

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Your last posts are the reason why misogyny needs to be brought up, and discussed at length about this case -- and in general. Why?

Because you don't want to talk about it. You want to distance the topic of misogyny as far as you can from this conversation. You want to bury it under misanthropy or misandry or racism or mental illness or whatever...just so long as the topic about women is safely out of the way.

If you want to discuss other aspects of this case, that's fine. No one is questioning that. But you will get called on it if you try to bury or dismiss the flagrant misogyny in this case.

And let's be clear: He killed men, yes, and he wanted to kill men. This is not a case of him hating men. Think of it when people murder because of money. He wanted a particular "item" those men had. In other words, he wanted to "own" all the women.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/25706-after-elliot-rodger-yesallwomen-trends-on-twitter-as-a-response-to-the-not-all-men-fools

I actually think it's far more complicated than that. To me, this is kind of the CSI effect for psychos. We think of people like Hannibal Lecter or Dexter having some kind of particular strain of though running through their actions no matter how complicated.

But for someone who is actually mentally ill, and not a made-up character, it's not simple like that.

This kid lived in a very small pond and his viewpoints showed it. His only interactions with minorities only came in terms of competition. He had no other hobbies or interest that normal people would have that make them well-rounded.

He just seemed to hate society, but since his viewpoint on what society is was so, so small it just became some weird Darwin like obsession.

He didn't want to own "all women" imo. He didn't seem that connected to society to want them.

This kid is the worst parts of our society somehow wrapped in one. I can see why people are seeing so much into is actions.

 

[Tempest]

I actually think it's far more complicated than that. To me, this is kind of the CSI effect for psychos. We think of people like Hannibal Lecter or Dexter having some kind of particular strain of though running through their actions no matter how complicated.

But for someone who is actually mentally ill, and not a made-up character, it's not simple like that.

This kid lived in a very small pond and his viewpoints showed it. His only interactions with minorities only came in terms of competition. He had no other hobbies or interest that normal people would have that make them well-rounded.

He just seemed to hate society, but since his viewpoint on what society is was so, so small it just became some weird Darwin like obsession.

He didn't want to own "all women" imo. He didn't seem that connected to society to want them.

This kid is the worst parts of our society somehow wrapped in one. I can see why people are seeing so much into is actions.

"But he was off his rocker" does not make the misogyny go away. People who are bullies have generally been bullied themselves. People have hard lives, and they're sometimes lonely, rejected people who live a life of sadness and solitude. There are lots of guys who objectify women, who are otherwise decent people. There are racists out there who hate everyone who isn't white. There are people out there who may have that entire combination of beliefs and behaviors.

I get it.

But just because there are other issues doesn't make the misogyny less important. It becomes very important, in fact, every time someone wants to shunt the topic of misogyny to the side, or every time someone wants to say that it's not a big deal, or that it's not the most important issue.

 

[Anita18]

I have a gay friend who wrote on Facebook that he feels like a woman sometimes, that he's been objectified and victimized and sexually assaulted, as a gay man. And I don't think his experience is invalid because he happens to be a man. He was still taken advantage of by bigger, stronger men. But the point is, what he feels is by far an anomaly for men, but a regularity for women.

Though, I don't think we need to play the "who's been victimized more" card here. It isn't about the victims changing their behaviors after all, it's pointing out the negative behaviors of perpetrators who may not even be aware of what they're doing. The main issue is how bigger, stronger people feel the need to take what they want from others, and having it be culturally acceptable. Whether it be a woman, a smaller gay man, or a child, that is the real crux of the issue, and the experience of women is probably the most logical place to start, because it has become so NORMAL.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I have a gay friend who wrote on Facebook that he feels like a woman sometimes, that he's been objectified and victimized and sexually assaulted, as a gay man. And I don't think his experience is invalid because he happens to be a man. He was still taken advantage of by bigger, stronger men. But the point is, what he feels is by far an anomaly for men, but a regularity for women.

Though, I don't think we need to play the "who's been victimized more" card here. It isn't about the victims changing their behaviors after all, it's pointing out the negative behaviors of perpetrators who may not even be aware of what they're doing. The main issue is how bigger, stronger people feel the need to take what they want from others, and having it be culturally acceptable. Whether it be a woman, a smaller gay man, or a child, that is the real crux of the issue, and the experience of women is probably the most logical place to start, because it has become so NORMAL.

THiS!!!!! I'm all for using this incident to show the destructive behaviors our society perpetrates through objectification.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

"But he was off his rocker" does not make the misogyny go away. People who are bullies have generally been bullied themselves. People have hard lives, and they're sometimes lonely, rejected people who live a life of sadness and solitude. There are lots of guys who objectify women, who are otherwise decent people. There are racists out there who hate everyone who isn't white. There are people out there who may have that entire combination of beliefs and behaviors.

I get it.

Misogyny is definitely a big deal. I have no problem using this as an example to make a larger discussion about how we allow women to be treated. He definitely had a warped idea of sex and women.

To me, he didn't go into a school library or a mall to kill women. There he'd find chubby or redhead or asian women. The fact he wanted to go after a sorority and going on about blonde women tells me his hatred came from something else that was expressed as women's fault.

Outside of owning a BMW and going to a community college, I have no idea what this kid's interest are.

To me, this reminds me of Don Sterling. This kid wondered by he didn't have blonde women dropping to his feet to be with him. In reality he had nothing to offer. Don Sterling says he's not a racist, he just doesn't want to associate with minorities unless he has control (mistress or as "owner" of his team).

Both Sterling and this kid only seem to be interested in power dynamics that supported the image they wanted.

I'm glad he didn't end up with just some "lesser" random girl who he would probably have abused (mentally/physically) because she didn't make him look the way he wanted.

But just because there are other issues doesn't make the misogyny less important. It becomes very important, in fact, every time someone wants to shunt the topic of misogyny to the side, or every time someone wants to say that it's not a big deal, or that it's not the most important issue.

For me, I just wouldn't use this kid as a prime example of anything really. Cause most misogyny is going to be done by guys who otherwise would be deemed okay like you said. They hold a regular job and have friends they hang out with. I fear most of them will try and hold themselves as different cause well, they don't push women or listen to their sister's having sex(ugh).

For the longest time, it was hard to explain to people that not using the N-word doesn't mean you can't hold bias views.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

We'll it seems a former state secretary has discovered the true reason behind the killings it was......dum dum dummmmm teh gays

http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation...y-links-mass-killings-isla-vista-gay-marriage



seriously how the **** do this people with no brain function actually get into positions of power

 

[DA_Champion]

For the longest time, it was hard to explain to people that not using the N-word doesn't mean you can't hold bias views.

It's still hard.

 

[KevanG]

We'll it seems a former state secretary has discovered the true reason behind the killings it was......dum dum dummmmm teh gays

http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation...y-links-mass-killings-isla-vista-gay-marriage



seriously how the **** do this people with no brain function actually get into positions of power

It's always all about teh geys! You think they'd be tired of all this attention by now.

DS needs to be made aware of the poll about moral decay.

 

[Tempest]

Misogyny is definitely a big deal. I have no problem using this as an example to make a larger discussion about how we allow women to be treated. He definitely had a warped idea of sex and women.

To me, he didn't go into a school library or a mall to kill women. There he'd find chubby or redhead or asian women. The fact he wanted to go after a sorority and going on about blonde women tells me his hatred came from something else that was expressed as women's fault.

There were certainly many, many issues that this guy had. This isn't ALL about misogyny. That STILL does not change the misogyny he had, nor the misogyny that the groups of online people he hung out with had. Stop trying to excuse it. Stop trying to go around it. Stop trying to divert it.

A little misogyny, a lot of misogyny; the driving force behind his actions, or just one of dozens of issues he had, it doesn't matter. Misogyny is misogyny, and it HAS to be addressed. Otherwise, the topic will fade, and men won't learn that the everyday misogyny this guy showed is damaging and dangerous for women. Every time something like misogyny or racism, or hating on gays, gets dismissed, it gives the power back to the bullies.

Do you see the problem? Do you understand that by trying to lessen the idea of his misogyny, you are actually helping to perpetuate the idea that hatred and disrespect is all right. I'm certain you don't mean for that to be the case, so I'm asking you, with the greatest of respect, to not continue the conversation by going, "But it's not all about misogyny". I know that.

Both Sterling and this kid only seem to be interested in power dynamics that supported the image they wanted.

Right. Those terms are called racism and misogyny. Which is the whole point. It has less to do with pretty white girls, and more to do with the fact that he wanted power over these women. He wanted them to desire him, but he also wanted them to control and to own.

For me, I just wouldn't use this kid as a prime example of anything really. Cause most misogyny is going to be done by guys who otherwise would be deemed okay like you said. They hold a regular job and have friends they hang out with. I fear most of them will try and hold themselves as different cause well, they don't push women or listen to their sister's having sex(ugh).

For the longest time, it was hard to explain to people that not using the N-word doesn't mean you can't hold bias views.

-facepalm- Please read that and think a little.

We'll it seems a former state secretary has discovered the true reason behind the killings it was......dum dum dummmmm teh gays

http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation...y-links-mass-killings-isla-vista-gay-marriage



seriously how the **** do this people with no brain function actually get into positions of power

What a turd. Connecting a guy who hated women as being somehow influenced by gay marriage is a form of mental gymnastics that is as impressive as it is terrifying.

So, now we know that it's not misogyny, not the NRA's fault, not the car's fault, and not really this guy's fault, because he's mentally ill and was influenced by gay marriage.

I'm glad we had this conversation so we could clear all that up.

 

[chamber-music]

I don't understand why these guys are so resentful.

If the world says you can't have a certain trophy (beautiful blonde) then maybe you're aiming for the wrong kind of trophies in life.

These guys desperately need of a plan B. Literally billions of people have dealt with rejection but they find a way to move forward.

They don't let the rejection fester like an infected wound.

I don't think they are even interested in having a relationship with a woman or even see them as human beings. It seems like these guys only see women as some object to own so that they want own as a status symbol or trophy.

 

[Doctor Evo]

To me, he didn't go into a school library or a mall to kill women. There he'd find chubby or redhead or asian women.

Wut

 

[Tempest]

I don't think they are even interested in having a relationship with a woman or even see them as human beings. It seems like these guys only see women as some object to own so that they want own as a status symbol or trophy.

Oh they don't see women as people. Only as objects that are to be used for their own pleasure and gain.

Wut

Right? I've been trying to be polite. But that is so much comment fail. So much.

 

[Anita18]

I read an article that described the shooter as a terrorist, because he was. A sorority is perhaps the strongest symbol of young female attractiveness. He went after that symbol for a reason, and let us know exactly what that reason was.

Despite the offensive (and ironically, misogynist) wording, TheComicbookKid is right. The fact that it wasn't the library or a dining hall is significant.

 

[Sawyer]

I was out of town when I read it, but has the whole thing about the idiot journalist trying to pin this kid's actions on Seth Rogen movies been posted here?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I was out of town when I read it, but has the whole thing about the idiot journalist trying to pin this kid's actions on Seth Rogen movies been posted here?

Well, at least it's not video games for once.

 

[KevanG]

To me, he didn't go into a school library or a mall to kill women. There he'd find chubby or redhead or asian women.

Wait Wait Wait

Wait

Are you saying all the redheads are at the library? I'mma gonna get me a library card!

 

[Tempest]

I was out of town when I read it, but has the whole thing about the idiot journalist trying to pin this kid's actions on Seth Rogen movies been posted here?

I don't think so. If it was, I missed it. I'm desperately interested to read it.

 

[Snow Queen]

I don't think so. If it was, I missed it. I'm desperately interested to read it.

Here you go.

Emphasis mine.

Spoiler

As deranged manifestos go, the final YouTube video made by suspected Isla Vista, Calif., mass murderer Elliot Rodger was remarkably well-made. Filmed by Rodger in his black BMW, with palm trees in the background and his face bathed in magic-hour key light, the six-minute diatribe — during which he vows revenge on all the women who rejected him and men who were enjoying fun and sex while he was “rotting in loneliness” — might easily have been mistaken for a scene from one of the movies Rodger’s father, Peter Rodger, worked on as a director and cinematographer.

Indeed, as important as it is to understand Rodger’s actions within the context of the mental illness he clearly suffered, it’s just as clear that his delusions were inflated, if not created, by the entertainment industry he grew up in. With his florid rhetoric of self-pity, aggression and awkwardly forced “evil laugh,” Rodger resembled a noxious cross between Christian Bale’s slick sociopath in “American Psycho,” the thwarted womanizer in James Toback’s “The Pick-Up Artist” and every Bond villain in the canon.

As Rodger bemoaned his life of “loneliness, rejection and unfulfilled desire” and arrogantly announced that he would now prove his own status as “the true alpha male,” he unwittingly expressed the toxic double helix of insecurity and entitlement that comprises Hollywood’s DNA. For generations, mass entertainment has been overwhelmingly controlled by white men, whose escapist fantasies so often revolve around vigilantism and sexual wish-fulfillment (often, if not always, featuring a steady through-line of casual misogyny). Rodger’s rampage may be a function of his own profound distress, but it also shows how a sexist movie monoculture can be toxic for women and men alike.

How many students watch outsized frat-boy fantasies like “Neighbors” and feel, as Rodger did, unjustly shut out of college life that should be full of “sex and fun and pleasure”? How many men, raised on a steady diet of Judd Apatow comedies in which the shlubby arrested adolescent always gets the girl, find that those happy endings constantly elude them and conclude, “It’s not fair”?

Movies may not reflect reality, but they powerfully condition what we desire, expect and feel we deserve from it. The myths that movies have been selling us become even more palpable at a time when spectators become their own auteurs and stars on YouTube, Instagram and Vine. If our cinematic grammar is one of violence, sexual conquest and macho swagger — thanks to male studio executives who green-light projects according to their own pathetic predilections — no one should be surprised when those impulses take luridly literal form in the culture at large.

Part of what makes cinema so potent is the way even its most outlandish characters and narratives burrow into and fuse with our own stories and identities. When the dominant medium of our age — both as art form and industrial practice — is in the hands of one gender, what may start out as harmless escapist fantasies can, through repetition and amplification, become distortions and dangerous lies.

Every year, San Diego State University researcher Martha Lauzen releases a “Celluloid Ceiling” report in which she delivers distressing statistics regarding the state of women in Hollywood. This year, she found that women made up just 16 percent of directors, writers, producers, cinematographers and editors working on the top 250 movies of 2013; similarly, women accounted for just 15 percent of protagonists in those films.

Even if 51 percent of our movies were made by women, Elliot Rodger still would have been seriously ill. But it’s worth examining who gets to be represented on screen, and how. It makes sense to ask, as cartoonist Alison Bechdel does in her eponymous Bechdel Test, whether a movie features (1) at least two named female characters who (2) talk to each other about (3) something besides a man. And it bears taking a hard look at whether we’re doing more subtle damage to our psyches and society by so drastically limiting our collective imagination. As Rodger himself made so grievously clear, we’re only as strong as the stories we tell ourselves.