The Dark Knight Shades of Batman Returns

[Saint]

As we all know, Schumacher was brought on board after Burton's "Batman Returns" proved too adult for children. Looking at the emerging image of the Joker--which appears to have some fairly gruesome scarring--a lot of people have been wondering if it my frighten children. Should we be worrying that history might repeat itself?

Before anyone says "WB has learned their lesson," the truth is they haven't. They're still handing over franchises to incompetents (Shawn Levy on The Flash), and are still trying to turn adult-oriented properties into kid-friendly popcorn films (for example, Zack Snyder's comments that WB wanted him to make Watchmen like Fantastic Four).

Obviously most fans--myself included--jump at the idea of a more adult Batman film, but what might the price be? Suppose the film does go in the more gruesome direction the Joker image suggest. Kids won't see the film, parents will start whine and moan, and suddenly WB is thinking "We need to get the younger demographic back" again. We could wind up with Nolan being removed and replaced by another Schumacher.

On the other hand, the massive success of 300 may teach them that they don't need to cater to the younger audience to make money. If the film is going down the road the Joker image seems to suggest (granted, it's a lot to assume from some possible scars on a half-revealed picture), I certainly hope they keep the success of 300 in mind.

 

[Batman FREAK]

I don't think they're worried about that demographic anymore....thus why they allowed Chris's vision to be brought to the screen in the first place.

 

[Stringer]

I never expected Nolan to do more than 3 movies in the first place. So as long as we get 3 great Batman flicks by Nolan, they could boot him and hire Tim Story for all I care, Id happy for the next 10 or so years.

 

[Batman FREAK]

I don't think that's something to worry about at this point. I think they know everything is in good hands here.

 

[IamtheBatman]

Nolan is our savior.

 

[TheBatman072]

Who cares if it's too gruesome for kids? They're going to want to see it anyway, becuase it's Batman.


And these villains are MEANT to scare the **** out of kids. At their core, at least.

 

[bestever23]

this is not 1992.....things change and nolan knows what he's doing and besides he's making a trilogy so I don't think WB will let him go if Dark Knight Is too Dark lol besides Batman 89 and Batman returns Were BOTH DARK

 

[Mr. Socko]

I don't think we'll have that happen again. Nolan will do it all just right.

 

[gap5ewl]

Im so sick of the studios turning adult oriented material into kittie friendly popcorn flicks. i hate that they did that with the first batman franchise since the first two films were so good.

leave the kiddies with shrek and spider-man dont get batman in the mix.

besides, batman is SUPPOSED to be dark not campy. i would like to see an R rated batman film in the future..hell maybe dark knight might be it.

 

[sohojozo]

My friends and I were kids when the first two Batman movies came out, and let me tell you, back then, we bought a lot of action figures. 50% of which came from films our parents wouldn't allow us to see lol. that basically made us MORE enthusiastic about the films once we got older.
i barely got to see batman returns, and couldn't watch Batman until i was eight just because Jack's Joker scared the hell out of me. but i still love batman to this day, and i was still obsessed with the films. I think a lot of PG-13 and R films market themselves towards kids in the form of toys, whether they are allowed see them or not. we don't have anything to worry about, i think. so...let's have a scary joker AND batman popsicles!

 

[not_a_victim]

Do you really feel that the Joker's scares are too much for kids? Really?

 

[Nepenthes]

I thought this thread would be about a director running of and doing his own extreme version of the characters.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I don't think it'll be a problem. Begins was already, for the most part, a more adult movie. I really don't think young kids were that into it; I didn't see as much youth merchandise, small children in Begins t-shirts, etc. While I loved it, I could see it being kind of boring for small children (to say nothing of it being scary as well, the fear gas scenes especially). Spider-Man has kind of dethroned Batman as the supreme kid's hero, at least from what I've seen.

Which is good. Not that I don't want kids to be able to enjoy Batman, just the opposite. I never want to shut kids out of Batman, it belongs to them just as it belongs to us. However, since they didn't show up in tremendous force for Begins, there's not as much pressure to wrangle them back in for its sequel. That means Nolan has more freedom. He's definitely targeting a different demo.

But ultimately, the kids who want to see it will see it. Some will be scared. But they were scared of the original Joker. And Penguin. And hell, even Spider-Man had Venom, who I'm sure scared the pants of a lot of young'ins.

My only concern is it not the Joker being "scary." It's Joker being gross. If his deformed mouth is as grotesque as it appears to be from the revealing pic, it's going to be...well, difficult to look at for 2 hours. And this is coming from a horror fan. I can take eviscerations and dismemberments and all that fun stuff, but heavy scar tissue, extreme facial disfigurements, etc...they make me a little queasy. And I'm sure I'm not alone. Joker is my favorite fictional character of all time; I'd like to be able to look at him on screen without getting sick. But it couldn't be that bad, I suppose. It wouldn't be allowed in a PG-13 movie, right?

 

[CConn]

Before anyone says "WB has learned their lesson," the truth is they haven't. They're still handing over franchises to incompetents (Shawn Levy on The Flash), and are still trying to turn adult-oriented properties into kid-friendly popcorn films (for example, Zack Snyder's comments that WB wanted him to make Watchmen like Fantastic Four).

I would like to note, those are hardly to sure-fire mistakes by WB. While they hired Shawn Levy, who knows if he'll ever get the greenlight. Remember, they hired Tim Burton for Superman, but never allowed his twisted vision to make the big screen.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

My only concern is it not the Joker being "scary." It's Joker being gross. If his deformed mouth is as grotesque as it appears to be from the revealing pic, it's going to be...well, difficult to look at for 2 hours. And this is coming from a horror fan. I can take eviscerations and dismemberments and all that fun stuff, but heavy scar tissue, extreme facial disfigurements, etc...they make me a little queasy. And I'm sure I'm not alone. Joker is my favorite fictional character of all time; I'd like to be able to look at him on screen without getting sick. But it couldn't be that bad, I suppose. It wouldn't be allowed in a PG-13 movie, right?

While I'm not sure on the cut smile, I would say, though, that if you think that's going to be bad, I wonder how they're going to do Two-Face, espicially if they go with a look akin to Tim Sale's, who is...pretty realistic to his scar tissuing.

 

[Saint]

Some of you aren't listening to what I'm saying. You can stop saying "Nolan will do it right" because I'm not making any arguments against that. I'm not talking about quality. I'm only saying that a film that doesn't bring in money from the kids may cause WB to rethink the franchise, as happened with BR. I personally would love the film to be more adult, as it appears to be, but I am skeptical of whether Warner Bros. wants it that way, and it would be bad if they pulled a tunraround like Batman Forever.

 

[TheScarecrow]

I thought this thread would be about a director running of and doing his own extreme version of the characters.

Amen.

This is the third time WB's have allowed a director to push their own agenda for their second movie.

How anyone can call that The Joker is beyond me. Sure, it's gruesome, it's creepy.

But it ain't no Joker.

 

[Comic Book Boy]

Some of you aren't listening to what I'm saying. You can stop saying "Nolan will do it right" because I'm not making any arguments against that. I'm not talking about quality. I'm only saying that a film that doesn't bring in money from the kids may cause WB to rethink the franchise, as happened with BR. I personally would love the film to be more adult, as it appears to be, but I am skeptical of whether Warner Bros. wants it that way, and it would be bad if they pulled a tunraround like Batman Forever.

They won't.

 

[Mr Zazsz]

This really does remind me of Batman Returns in the sense that Chris Nolan seems to be following a great first effort with a self indulgent second film. I loved BB, saw it in theatres 20 times and was dying to see TDK but this just completely killed my enthusiasm. A mutilation/total visual bastardization of THE most recognizable character in comics for no other reason than to put his stamp on the character and make him more "real" is just as bad if not worse than what Burton did to the Penguin. At least he only went after a B Lister and left the A team recognizable.....and to any higher up's at the WB who might be reading this (yeah I know, when monkeys fly out my butt): What in the holy f%#! where you thinking letting this even get past the design stage ?

Never thought I'd say this but that fake make up test manip is looking pretty damn good right about now.

 

[Baba Ghanoush]

For BR it wasn't necessarily the movie that caused an alarm at WB it was the sponsors and marketers that complained. For some reason toys of penguin with black goo on his face didn't sell well. And this combined the lower box office results forced WB to make Burton a producer only for the third film and to change direction of the franchise.

It will ultimately come down to money like everything else in the world. If TDK makes money, which it should given the buildup and success from BB, I'm confident WB will let Nolan finish out the franchise with minimal inteference.

But after the third movie and if Nolan leaves, then we should begin to worry about the direction of the character.

 

[Da_Joka]

Hopefully this gets an R rating.

 

[AdmNelson]

Hopefully this gets an R rating.

Utterly impossible. The chances of that happening are less than zero.

Warners has WAY too much money riding on the Batman franchise (which kids will want to see) to ever chance an R rating.

Ain't gonna happen, period.

-- Admiral Nelson

 

[Nepenthes]

^ It won't.


Saint, maybe WB has realised they can diversify the Batman properties for different ages. Even after The Batman cartoon has runs its course there'll always be new Batman animation being produced, so if parents kick up a fuss again with the movies maybe WB can just say screw it lets keep the movies for teens and adults. Lets cartoons sell the merchandise.

But then when you consider what will happen after Nolan...IMO a new style, tone and approach WILL most likely be needed just for variety. A possibility might be a Robin orientated trilogy which would of course have an different audience than Nolans films.

 

[Cobblepot]

History won't repeat itself, audiences have matured the last 10 years.

 

[Cobblepot]

Hopefully this gets an R rating.

The best we can hope for is a theatrical release and an R rated cut.