Shameless

[SpitCurl]

I need for them to do something with Frank's character. I get that in the macro sense the entire show is redundant: something f'd up happens and they have to deal with it, but, at least within that general premise there's room to play around with all of the various relationships and characters.

Frank is just... I mean, it feels like every episode starts with a bad sitcom voice-over: "uh-oh! Looks like Frank's been kicked out of another home! Where's he gonna sleep this week?! Find out on 'Shameless!' Ahahaha!"

It's really getting old. Invariably, he'll bounce back by the end like some drunken, scuzzy Forest Gump lucking his way through life with almost no lasting repercussions. F that. I need catharsis. Something needs to stick and really f*** him over instead of just Fiona for once. Waking up in dog s*** means nothing to Frank. It needs to hurt... and then I can go back to watching him Gump it up for a while t:

 

[Travesty]

Frank is just... I mean, it feels like every episode starts with a bad sitcom voice-over: "uh-oh! Looks like Frank's been kicked out of another home! Where's he gonna sleep this week?! Find out on 'Shameless!' Ahahaha!"

I can see that. But even though, it's one reason why I love this show. t:

 

[hellblazer103]

there is really no defense for Karen. idk why anyone would bother trying.


I ****ing hated her soooo damn much throughout last season. the scene where she gave birth to himey was the last straw for me , I couldn't get over how c-wordy her behavior was there. and when she came back I don't care how sad and **** she acted in front of her mom, i'm sure every single one of us thought " oh ****, not this *****. she's obviously up to something and is gonna **** everything up " . which she did. so yea, i'm glad she got run over and I hope someone pulls the ****ing plug on her. maybe she just pisses me off because she reminds me of a more extreme version of my ex but that's a different story. lol

 

[DACrowe]

Why do people have such a problem with this? It is clear what she did and why she did it.

Because it is an evil, twisted thing to do. Frank is basically her mother's live-in boyfriend at that time. More than that, Frank is her BFF's (even if she doesn't love him) dad. She does it to spite her dad. That is a TERRIBLE thing to do to Lip. If she loved him she would never do that. End of story.

Never said it did. But I don't know exactly how this makes her emotionless. If anything, it shows the exact opposite.

Never said she was emotionless. That scene just makes her look like a terrible person, but given her dad was one too, I admit you can let it slide. It just fits into this awful pattern in the greater context of things.

So she wanted to take a dig at Lip. Doesn't sound emotionless to me.

Yes, there was emotion. Selfishness. Cruelty. Vindictiveness. Arrogance. Vanity. These were all at play. She screwed with Jodie's head to screw with Lip's. You do not marry another man to make the one you love and who is in the open declaring his love for you jealous. You do it because you are spiteful and derive pleasure in hurting those in your life for attention.

And? It is clear she is forcing Shelia to choose, and Shelia chose. She left.

And lets be real for a second. Sheila should not be raising a kid. She thought leaving him with Frank was okay. Sheila is horrible at raising kids. That he was taken from her was good thing.

And gives it to grandparents who think they can cure autism with herbs?! She doesn't give a **** about the kid's well being. She is a selfish, conceited, ***** who lied to her mother and manipulated her to get her way like the brat she's always been. The result is the baby's well-being is likely worse off, but Karen doesn't care about her own child. She only cares about herself.

Manipulated?

I said Lip is as much to blame too. But especially because he did see through her ********. She's back 5 minutes and goes to the Gallagher house to give him that sob story about Paris and the guy who "took all her money." She was playing him for attention. That's why as they're having sex she is already continuing to manipulate him by encouraging him to think going to college is a joke.

Two girls fighting over a man, using outrageous words to hurt others? Not sure why this is a big deal. Even if it happened, it would be on Lip.

It's on both of them. But she got mad not because she lost Lip, but because he picked another girl over her. Karen must be the center of attention. And I guarantee you if she lives, like Monica, she will soak up Lip for all the self-loathing attention he can give her before she breaks his heart again and runs off when she grows bored. She is probably the least likable human being on fictional television right now and I am saying that with JOFFREY in my mind. That says something.

Lip does not need to go to college. I know it seems to be the "right thing", but there is a reason Lip keeps pushing back against it. It isn't what he wants. It might be best for him, but it isn't what he wants.

He doesn't want it because he doesn't want responsibility of "making it." He is such a coward that he will not even try to improve his life in fear of being judged by his family. So he wants to throw his life away? He'll just end up like Frank at the bottom of the bottle in 10-15 years if he doesn't go. So yes, he does need to do so.

 

[Project862006]

Anyways, I'm not gonna argue anymore about it. I'm in no way acting like Mandy is a saint. Everything I've said is just how it is. Karen is a piece of **** plain and simple and how anybody on this planet could defend such a person is beyond me.

and how anyone could defend mandy who even relished in possibly killing karen is quite disgusting

karen may be Satan's spawn but she inst a sociopath like mandy

Mandy is the type of chick if lip cheated on her i would fear she would slit his throat in his sleep

 

[Roose Bolton]

He DID cheat on her and...she took it out on the other chick

"Kid ****er."

 

[Maximus One]

I don't think I'm defending Mandy. All I've said is that she has a heart and is a fighter. Karen was threatening her life she was making with Lip and she shut Karen the **** up. I'm in no way defending her violent behavior. I don't think she is a sociopath, sociopaths don't have a conscience or a heart and Mandy gas demonstrated numerous times that she is a very caring person

 

[SpitCurl]

God****it, even when you try to steer the conversation onto a new topic, people won't let you

Gotta love the way internet forums make you feel like you're talking to yourself sometimes. Thanks for leapfrogging past that whole attempt to talk about Frank & not Karen, guys!

Seriously, if Frank's not your cup of tea then what about V and Kev & Gimp Porn? Mickey & Ian? Anything? It's conversational ADD in here.

 

[Maximus One]

Lmao! I got something then, let's get this started.

I love both the Kev and V relationship and Mickey and Ian. Kev and V have a really interesting dynamic that had made for great drama and some absolutely hysterical moments the last few episodes. The stuff with V's mom was pretty damn outrageous and all I could find myself thinking was how lucky a man Kevin is. Mickey and Ian, that's pretty straight forward. I honestly find Ian to be the moral center of this show for the most part. He's in on scams and what not but more than anybody else he's a genuinely good person IMO and one of the most genuine characters on the show. I'm as hetero as they come but I do love when a tv show has a real, down to earth representation of gay or lesbian relationships and this one has remained engaging since it started. As for Frank, I kinda get what you're saying and I agree that some real repercussions need to happen to him at some point.

 

[SpitCurl]

I'm still in shock about the whole V & Kevin & V's Mom thing.

The scene with all 3 together was maybe one of the most warped things I've ever seen. Was laughing & cringing in equal amounts. Shockingly, I haven't seen too many people bring it up. Maybe it's because we aren't as close to Kev & V but ugh, that was just skeevy <shudders>.

As for Ian, yeah my heart broke for that dude. I actually think there's more to Mickey literally kicking the snot out of him than just being his usual drunk & self-loathing self (at least, I hope that's what the writers are getting at). I think Mickey's trying to protect Ian in his own brutally-violent way.

 

[Maximus One]

I agree about Mickey. He probably thinks he's stopping his dad from killing Ian honestly. And I dunno about anybody else but I ****ing love Kev and V. Dude that plays Kev is awesome. My mom used to always watch Reba and it's soooooo hard to believe that he was Van on that show. It was soooo damn funny when this show first started and I watched it with my mom and she was all "Oh dear Lordy! I've seen Van's pecker!!!" lmfao I was rollin' off that for weeks

 

[Charlie Boy]

Hah, this thread barely has life to it, and when people are actually engaging in discussion, someone complains.

You call it discussion, I say you're bickering like Twilight Fan Girls...

 

[Travesty]

You call it discussion, I say you're bickering like Twilight Fan Girls...

Heh, you're right, maybe we should start talking about the characters wardrobes, like Sally from Being Human, and act like civilized adult Twilight Fan Women.

 

[SpitCurl]

I agree about Mickey. He probably thinks he's stopping his dad from killing Ian honestly. And I dunno about anybody else but I ****ing love Kev and V. Dude that plays Kev is awesome. My mom used to always watch Reba and it's soooooo hard to believe that he was Van on that show. It was soooo damn funny when this show first started and I watched it with my mom and she was all "Oh dear Lordy! I've seen Van's pecker!!!" lmfao I was rollin' off that for weeks

I definitely love Kev & V (who, now that I think of it, would've made a much better Tara on Tru Blood), but watching that impromptu threesome was so blissfully wrong. As a storyline, I hope their characters are finally able to have a kid, just for all of the V breastfeeding gags. Seems like V would take serious offense to that.

 

[Charlie Boy]

Heh, you're right, maybe we should start talking about the characters wardrobes, like Sally from Being Human, and act like civilized adult Twilight Fan Women.

That's more like it. Mandy wears too much black! Brighten it up a bit, girl!

 

[Maximus One]

Wonder if Monica will return any this season? Only three episodes left so I doubt it. I was always surprised they even brought her back last season. I can't stand Monica she's like a middle aged Karen

 

[SpitCurl]

Wonder if Monica will return any this season? Only three episodes left so I doubt it. I was always surprised they even brought her back last season. I can't stand Monica she's like a middle aged Karen

I hope not. The actress if phenomenal but, like you, I loathe the character. The show tends to nose-dive into the dramatic whenever she's involved, and while I don't mind a little emotional weight with my sleaze, I generally don't watch this show to feel horribly depressed afterward.

 

[Maximus One]

Right? She's such a drag to have around. Even when she's up it's still just so chaotic you know it's gonna spiral outta control at any time

 

[SpitCurl]

Right? She's such a drag to have around. Even when she's up it's still just so chaotic you know it's gonna spiral outta control at any time

I hereby dub Monica, "Buzz-Kill".

 

[Jack Bauer]

I really don't understand why people hate Karen. She's what TV Tropes is called a Broken Bird. She is a damaged young woman who've been affected by her father, who basically forced her become "good" with those religious meetings. Also I do believe that just being with or around Lip just greatly, greatly worsen her.

 

[SpitCurl]

I really don't understand why people hate Karen. She's what TV Tropes is called a Broken Bird. She is a damaged young woman who've been affected by her father, who basically forced her become "good" with those religious meetings. Also I do believe that just being with or around Lip just greatly, greatly worsen her.

Because she's wretched. That's all. Period.

Plenty of people have s****y lives and s****y things happen to them and don't act like complete bastards for it. It's called "taking personal responsibility", and so no, Karen doesn't get off-the-hook for having a rough upbringing. Fiona had/has Monica and Frank and she's not exactly the Devil.

 

[Maximus One]

Exactly. At least Karen had a stable roof over her head and loving parents who gave a **** about her. Fiona could be a raging crack addict but no because she's a decent human being

 

[flickchick85]

Yeah, I think the lack of sympathy for Karen comes from the fact that so many characters on this show have been shown to have had worse parents/upbringings than her (I think being raped repeatedly by her father puts Mandy in that category), and haven't turned out to be heartless, hateful "human beings."

For the record, I don't really like Mandy or Lip all that much either, but they haven't been detestable since S1 like Karen has for me.

 

[Jack Bauer]

The only time I liked Mandy is when Levy was playing her. Kinda wished she was still was playing the role.

But with Karen, I think compared to the other people on the show, she's nice. I mean, you gotten Mandy and Mickey's father, Frank (who seems to be going more deeper and deeper in becoming an evil bastard by each new season and yet, he's always off the hook), Monica, the supermarket store manger... how is that there's people like that when Karen isn't off the hook?

To me, this is interesting story telling when there is one character you can completely hate and yet ignore another complete bastards types because there is one character who seems to outshine them because she is a full blown sociopath. The writers really outdo themselves each season with the characters and how crappy a Gallagher life is.

 

[flickchick85]

The only time I liked Mandy is when Levy was playing her. Kinda wished she was still was playing the role.

That much we agree on. I never warmed up to this new actress, as it seemed like she didn't even watch the first season to make an attempt to fit into that character's shoes. She just read what was on the page and played it as a completely different character. Her line readings have often seemed completely flat to me.