Shane Black Directing Predator Sequel! - Part 2

[Verbal21]

The actual Predators weren’t funny, the crew was. I don’t understand why they are not allowed to or supposed to be funny.

There was no way everybody thought leaving the Fugitive Pred give a thumbs up was a good idea. So cringeworthy.

 

[elgaz]

I don't even know whether the idea of super-high-tech aliens who can travel through universe just to fight lower-tech species using wrist blades is even slightly sensible. Like is FTL travel so easy you can do hunting safari one-man trips? Wouldn't a civilization like that actually do some DNA s**t to themselves when they are so high-tech they can travel this galaxy? DNA manipulation is way easier than traveling faster than light, isn't it... Heh, I don't even know...

I think a bit of Predator backstory would greatly help the entire Predator property.

How old are they? Is their entire race one of hunters, and if so, then who developed all their tech - did they steal it by conquering another race? Or is there sub-species of Predator we've never met who are less aggressive and work in science/etc?

 

[Consona]

I loved how that scene went,

Spoiler

first the thumb up (I was like LOL, did you really do that Shane?), then he just casually sat down where those massacred soldiers had sat before his butcherous arrival, and let the unaware driver do his job (made me laugh out loud at that point).

 

[Consona]

I think a bit of Predator backstory would greatly help the entire Predator property.

How old are they? Is their entire race one of hunters, and if so, then who developed all their tech - did they steal it by conquering another race? Or is there sub-species of Predator we've never met who are less aggressive and work in science/etc?

Yes, things like these should be answered in some reasonable way, othewise you end up with the comicbook logic producing magic armor stuff disguised as "science" and such.

Predators are very interesting to me. They look so prehistoric, wearing those bones and skulls as trophies, and are nearly naked, with that net over their body, they are like some native tribal warriors, yet they possess this cloaking, shooting and space travel high-tech. Such an intriguing combination.

Man, the way Kevin Peter Hall portrayed the monster is truly remarkable. He made a character out of that creature. Even on this still...

 

[moviedoors]

I think more backstory is the last thing this series needs. The more mysterious and alluded to, the better. I prefer the sleight-of-hand way the first movie is able to imply an alien culture. It excels at "show, don't tell". If they must make another, I'd much rather they strip it way back.

These movies are better as pure suspense cinema than they are as plot driven stories. The last 30 minutes of the first movie on paper is like a one sentence story beat, but it's absolutely terrific, nearly dialogue-less, filmmaking with a capital "F".

 

[TheVileOne]

I think more backstory is the last thing this series needs. The more mysterious and alluded to, the better. I prefer the sleight-of-hand way the first movie is able to imply an alien culture. It excels at "show, don't tell". If they must make another, I'd much rather they strip it way back.

These movies are better as pure suspense cinema than they are as plot driven stories. The last 30 minutes of the first movie on paper is like a one sentence story beat, but it's absolutely terrific, nearly dialogue-less, filmmaking with a capital "F".

It's another reason why it's one of my favorites. IMHO the direction in the movie is perfect. McTiernan definitely had the eye of the tiger back in those days. Not sure what happened. Even Schwarzenegger's performance in the film impresses me because he looks genuinely terrified of this creature.

And you know just enough about this creature rather than get a whole backstory. The creature is a hunter that wants dangerous game. By the end it saw Dutch as a worthy opponent to face unarmed hand-to-hand, so it unmasked itself.

 

[moviedoors]

And you know just enough about this creature rather than get a whole backstory. The creature is a hunter that wants dangerous game. By the end it saw Dutch as a worthy opponent to face unarmed hand-to-hand, so it unmasked itself.

Right, and you understand that that's what's going on without anyone ever having to actually say it. It's communicated cinematically.

 

[Nathan]

I think this is the first review I listened to, that completely tore into Munn's character. According to her, she was completely useless, because every time she explained something, it's already been explained by somebody else. And she's a complete Mary Sue, because she goes from a Biologists, to a hardened Army Ranger, without any sort of natural transition.

Is Munn's character really that terrible? Because most reviewers say she did a good job. Or is it just that most reviewers don't dare to crap on her, after the controversy?

 

[Nathan]

Yes, things like these should be answered in some reasonable way, othewise you end up with the comicbook logic producing magic armor stuff disguised as "science" and such.

Predators are very interesting to me. They look so prehistoric, wearing those bones and skulls as trophies, and are nearly naked, with that net over their body, they are like some native tribal warriors, yet they possess this cloaking, shooting and space travel high-tech. Such an intriguing combination.

Man, the way Kevin Peter Hall portrayed the monster is truly remarkable. He made a character out of that creature. Even on this still...

I don't know if it'd be too unimaginative, but I'd maybe treat the Predators like Mass Effect's Krogans. A primitive race that hasn't even developed space flight, armed by another alien race, to fight in a war for them. But the plan backfired and the Predator's began to conquer other planets and hunt other races for sport.

 

[Prettyricky]

The third act isn't the problem. The whole movie is the problem. It's a mess from start to finish, not just the third act where "let's go out in the woods and reenact the first movie in ten minutes".

I didnt think it was mess until they revealed near the end what the first predator wanted then it undid the goodwill it built up with the team aspect and fun nature of being chased or chasing

 

[Prettyricky]

I think more backstory is the last thing this series needs. The more mysterious and alluded to, the better. I prefer the sleight-of-hand way the first movie is able to imply an alien culture. It excels at "show, don't tell". If they must make another, I'd much rather they strip it way back.

These movies are better as pure suspense cinema than they are as plot driven stories. The last 30 minutes of the first movie on paper is like a one sentence story beat, but it's absolutely terrific, nearly dialogue-less, filmmaking with a capital "F".

Agreed to some degree but after 3 sequels you have to change it up and give us more lore or info on them or else it becomes stale. Just once I want to see the homeworld explored but it would cost way too much

 

[TheVileOne]

There was no way everybody thought leaving the Fugitive Pred give a thumbs up was a good idea. So cringeworthy.

Almost as bad as putting a shower sex scene in an Alien film.

I think this is the first review I listened to, that completely tore into Munn's character. According to her, she was completely useless, because every time she explained something, it's already been explained by somebody else. And she's a complete Mary Sue, because she goes from a Biologists, to a hardened Army Ranger, without any sort of natural transition.

Is Munn's character really that terrible? Because most reviewers say she did a good job. Or is it just that most reviewers don't dare to crap on her, after the controversy?

I didn't care for the character. Not sure I'd throw the term Mary Sue around because it annoys me in general. I didn't find the character believable. Nothing against Olivia Munn. But some of her lines in the movie were the absolute worst too. I wanted to cringe with "You're one beautiful mother-****er." "It's not a predator, it's a sport hunter." And "You want to know if someone ****ed an alien?" And "Don't shoot my dog!" When I heard "Not my space alien" I wanted to vomit. Arnold Schwarzenegger she ain't. But I found the character obnoxious.

 

[Consona]

Almost as bad as putting a shower sex scene in an Alien film.

This is where it shows understanding of a film can differ rather substantially from person to person.

That scene was one of the most important in the film, because it showed the nature of this creature. It was not some killing animal. The scene did something very similar to the death of Lambert in the first film, where you see it's somewhat slow and weird for just a kill. Same here, the xenomorph watches its prey, even teases it with its tail (with the very Giger-ish and rather explicit sexual subtext), it's so slow, it's enjoying scaring its victim as much as possible before killing her.
Another great moment was when the xenomorph walked upright on two legs in the hangar, another hint it's not just some animal, that there's something human-like in that black banana-head of that thing.

The last 30 minutes of the first movie on paper is like a one sentence story beat, but it's absolutely terrific, nearly dialogue-less, filmmaking with a capital "F".

Yea, that's the poetry of it and what amazes me. Masterfully crafted from the director's side.

I think more backstory is the last thing this series needs. The more mysterious and alluded to, the better. I prefer the sleight-of-hand way the first movie is able to imply an alien culture. It excels at "show, don't tell". If they must make another, I'd much rather they strip it way back.

I agree, but as Prettyricky said, you can't maintain that when doing sequels.

 

[Loki882]

No I wouldn't call Munn's character a "Mary Sue." Also I'm starting to despise that term in-general as it's so overused/misused these days as to be practically meaningless. And Munn was fine in the role I thought. But her character isn't all that interesting (to be fair none of the characters really are, it's only the acting that salvages it to a degree). And she got stuck with some cringey lines (again she's not the only one), but that wasn't her fault.

I do think that she went from "scientist" to "badass warrior queen" a bit too quickly though. I mean the IDEA doesn't bother me, but I wish that there's been SOME kind of build-up/foreshadowing/hinting that she could do that stuff. Or better yet, if they wanted that, why not make her one of the soldiers on the team and get someone else to play the scientist (you know, like Jake Busey so you don't completely waste that connection to the second film for example)?

 

[Schlosser85]

What the hell was the point of Busey anyway? They don't even mention that he's Keyes' son, and then he just disappears.

 

[Teelie]

Munn was no Mary Sue and I would bet if she were male instead she probably wouldn't be getting this much **** (not aimed at any one in particular, just in general). Not that any of the other male characters in this movie fare all that much better but it seems like she is getting used as a prop for various purposes (both in and out of the film).

There's a lot of assumptions about her character that can be addressed. Just because she's a biologist doesn't mean she can't fire a gun. They didn't have to show her history as a sports shooter or a hunter or anything else. And hardened Army Ranger she hardly was. Munn didn't do anything all that extraordinary that would require extra training like special forces. She made a few ballsy moves and knew how to fire a gun. Big whoop there.

And she describes or says a lot of things others already addressed? When is this not a thing every other cardboard cutout scientist in a movie does? It's a stereotype at this point the brainy one is going to repeat or be repeated by someone else. Because it's (sometimes) funny.

There was a lot wrong with this movie but IMO Munn's acting wasn't very high among them. The rest of the actors did acceptable jobs too. It's just everything they had to say and do was so hit and miss and at times pointless.

I don't know what went wrong in this movie but calling out the actors for the material they were given feels harsh.

 

[Nathan]

So many easy script fixes. It's like they weren't even trying. Busey's character should have gotten a substantial role, and Munn, like Loki already said, should have just been one of the soldiers, instead of going from lab coat to Xena. Definitely waiting for the DVD release for this one.

 

[Loki882]

Munn firing a gun is fine. Munn being so good with military-type weaponry under such stressful/combat-like situations, that's where the iffy part comes in and that's what needed explanation. If she had been one of the soldiers, or at least if they'd mentioned that she used to be one before becoming a scientist, then suddenly that's not really an issue anymore.

 

[TheVileOne]

Like give her a military background that got her through medical school or whatever. Something.

Munn was no Mary Sue and I would bet if she were male instead she probably wouldn't be getting this much **** (not aimed at any one in particular, just in general). Not that any of the other male characters in this movie fare all that much better but it seems like she is getting used as a prop for various purposes (both in and out of the film).

There's a lot of assumptions about her character that can be addressed. Just because she's a biologist doesn't mean she can't fire a gun. They didn't have to show her history as a sports shooter or a hunter or anything else. And hardened Army Ranger she hardly was. Munn didn't do anything all that extraordinary that would require extra training like special forces. She made a few ballsy moves and knew how to fire a gun. Big whoop there.

And she describes or says a lot of things others already addressed? When is this not a thing every other cardboard cutout scientist in a movie does? It's a stereotype at this point the brainy one is going to repeat or be repeated by someone else. Because it's (sometimes) funny.

There was a lot wrong with this movie but IMO Munn's acting wasn't very high among them. The rest of the actors did acceptable jobs too. It's just everything they had to say and do was so hit and miss and at times pointless.

I don't know what went wrong in this movie but calling out the actors for the material they were given feels harsh.

At the end she did.

 

[Teelie]

Even had that been addressed in some causual remark it still leaves a lot of other problems with the movie to be fixed. I really think it could have been a good movie and maybe before all the changes it was. Or maybe this is an improvement on before. Whatever the beginning was, the end result was so disjointed I can't figure out what to make of it.

 

[Ninjablade]

I had no issues with Munn's performance, but much like Sterling K. Brown, it felt like the only reason she was in there was to give off exposition resulting in some really clunky dialogue.

Then her being very soldier like all of sudden was very odd. Would've been nice to have at least gotten a little explanation into that, but to call her a Mary Sue is being way too dramatic.

 

[Teelie]

For me I can reconcile her competency by assuming she had at least some kind of training in her past. I didn't have to see her go to college and get a degree to accept she was a biologist afterall.

Everything else though? Still working on how to figure that out.

 

[TheVileOne]

I just didn't find her believable. Maybe it was her acting and delivery. I found a lot of her dialogue really cringe-worthy and obnoxious.

Like that scene in the RV where she's analyzing the sample she found while drinking beer. Like how does she know all these things after just seeing a Predator for the first time like hours ago. How does Mckenna know all these things already? Why is it so casual? The way it's blocked is so cliche, and I don't get how she figured that all out with like a Toys R Us microscope in a ****ing RV.

It's not that Bracket is a woman either. It was just Olivia Munn.

Honestly, I didn't really care for Boyd Holbrook either. Dude seemed to understand and able to analyze the Predators better than Dutch ever could, despite only seeing them for the first time. The way he acted, it's like he knew **** and had past experience with them.

 

[Teelie]

All that is a lot to reconcile. If Holbrook were at least part of Stargazer then it would make sense but then they would have to find a way to get him into the prison bus too. I also wondered about that microscope thinking there is no way it would be powerful enough for her to get that kind of detail from it. And an even bigger headache is the kid with autism who is a genius and can learn to read Predator language in a few hours like it was a simple language.

 

[Lily Adler]

So I'm seeing this movie getting hated on and how "Marvelized" it is.