Shazam Shazam General Discussion and Speculation - Part 1

[Guts]

New image has been revealed of Freddy and Billy.

Notice in the background lots of Superman/Batman merch. Including a Time Magazine that is from when the Black Zero showed up in MOS and a newspaper article on the wall saying Superman is back.

Freddie is wearing an Aquaman shirt.

 

[FunkMiller]

Freddie is wearing an Aquaman shirt.

Yep, so that means Aquaman in Wan’s movie is going to be a major celebrity, who is loved by America’s children. Much like Batman will be too in Reeves’s film.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I’m somewhat confused as to why they’d merchandise someone who brands & kills people, and is supposed to be a dark vigilante in the shadows of one American city?

Because kids would still no doubt think a guy that runs around in a bat costume using all sorts of technologically advanced gadgets to defeat bad guys is cool af.

And because merchants will sell anything if there's money to be made.

At any rate, Batman's cruelty was a short portion of his 20 year long career.

 

[FunkMiller]

Because kids would still no doubt think a guy that runs around in a bat costume using all sorts of technologically advanced gadgets to defeat bad guys is cool af.

And because merchants will sell anything if there's money to be made.

...from a guy who’s supposed to bring fear and terror to the criminals of Gotham City. A guy who is supposed to be a hardened, terrifying vigilante, who prowls a dark city, committing acts of extreme violence on rapists, murderers and other criminal scum. A guy who’s supposed to be a shadowy urban legend, who works under cover of night, outside the boundaries of the law.

A guy who has little plastic toys made of him. That kiddies play with.

 

[Da-Scribe]

...from a guy who’s supposed to bring fear and terror to the criminals of Gotham City. A guy who is supposed to be a hardened, terrifying vigilante, who prowls a dark city, committing acts of extreme violence on rapists, murderers and other criminal scum. A guy who’s supposed to be a shadowy urban legend, who works under cover of night, outside the boundaries of the law.

A guy who has little plastic toys made of him. That kiddies play with.

I mean none of that stopped me or any other kid from loving Batman and wishing he were real. I don't really see why it should be any different here, especially considering he actually is real.

You're acting like Batman is some superhero that only us grown up can appreciate.

 

[1627523]

I feel like this will be DC's version of Spider-man Homecoming. Kid protagonist who is a big fan of the wider superhero universe, and their both lighthearted. I'm definitely interested.

 

[FunkMiller]

I mean none of that stopped me or any other kid from loving Batman and wishing he were real. I don't really see why it should be any different here, especially considering he actually is real.

You're acting like Batman is some superhero that only us grown up can appreciate.

You’re missing the point entirely. Within the fictional narrative, who in their right mind would merchandise what is perceived to be a psychotic madman, who beats people to a pulp? Why would kids love what essentially to them would be a bogeyman? A creature from a horror story?

Kids in our world know Batman is cool, but do you think the kids of Gotham would feel that way?

This is all based on the idea that the Batman they’ll use is the dark knight. If they go with a lighter, caped crusader, Adam West like interpretation, then it all makes absolute sense.

 

[misslane38]

I’m somewhat confused as to why they’d merchandise someone who brands & kills people, and is supposed to be a dark vigilante in the shadows of one American city?

The mother of the young Superman fan in Gotham defends Batman to the older man who tells Clark that there's a new kind of mean in the vigilante. She tells Clark the only people who have to fear Batman are those who deserve it. I'm not entirely convinced Batman's bad streak would have been universally unpopular. In addition, Clark never published his story and much of the worst information about Batman would either be revealed as Luthor's machinations (the murders of the branded criminals) or remain unproven to the public.

I'm not sure we know what the public perception of Batman is in the DCEU. The stories about his new brand of mean were not widely known, the cops were said not to be addressing the issue in any way, and ultimately the biggest concerns about him were exposed as the handiwork of Lex Luthor. Clark wanted to publish his article for a reason: he didn't feel people cared enough about the story. Without any article, I can't imagine anything would have changed. Indeed, subsequent acts of heroism on Batman's part likely would have solidified his public image as a mostly positive one, I would think.

 

[FunkMiller]

I'm not sure we know what the public perception of Batman is in the DCEU. The stories about his new brand of mean were not widely known, the cops were said not to be addressing the issue in any way, and ultimately the biggest concerns about him were exposed as the handiwork of Lex Luthor.

Clearly he’s very popular, as there are toys made of him. He must also appear in public, otherwise how would they know what his suit looks like so accurately? The toy has Batfleck’s chest logo and bronzed gauntlets. Also, the batarang is 100% accurate, so they must have got hold of a real one, which means they aren’t just confiscated weapons by the police. He must now be a very public figure in the DCEU after Justice League. And one who’s actions and methods are totally acceptable to toy companies.

 

[Guts]

Yep, so that means Aquaman in Wan’s movie is going to be a major celebrity, who is loved by America’s children. Much like Batman will be too in Reeves’s film.

 

[Da-Scribe]

You’re missing the point entirely. Within the fictional narrative, who in their right mind would merchandise what is perceived to be a psychotic madman, who beats people to a pulp? Why would kids love what essentially to them would be a bogeyman? A creature from a horror story?

Kids in our world know Batman is cool, but do you think the kids of Gotham would feel that way?

This is all based on the idea that the Batman they’ll use is the dark knight. If they go with a lighter, caped crusader, Adam West like interpretation, then it all makes absolute sense.

I'm really not though. You're just dead set on your own viewpoint. Batman has had a 20 year long career where he spent like 2 years of it acting crazy. So in order for what you believe is the case to actually be the case, the Batman toy we see could only have been made during that time. There's no real reason to think that. It could've been made prior to or after his psycho stint. You're also clutching onto this idea that kids are scared of Batman, when that's never been suggested. He fights bad guys. That's what kids know.

And I've never thought kids in Gotham would like Batman. His entire career hinges on beating up and incarcerating their friends and family. Kids in other cities would probably dig him though, and Billy and co. are not from Gotham, so there's that. But even SS shows a child in Gotham that isn't actually afraid of Batman and even steps in to protect him from her father, so again this idea that kids are somehow terrified of Batman is disproven by the films themselves.

 

[Guts]

There totally aren't toys that are based on things inappropriate for kids in real life.
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[misslane38]

Clearly he’s very popular, as there are toys made of him. He must also appear in public, otherwise how would they know what his suit looks like so accurately? The toy has Batfleck’s chest logo and bronzed gauntlets. He must now be a very public figure in the DCEU after Justice League. And one who’s actions and methods are totally acceptable to toy companies.

Yes, it's clear he's popular. I'm explaining why that might be, and my explanation is that some would actually be supportive of his prior brutal methods (endorsement/indifference) while some might not know or care much about it (ignorance), especially after he was not only revealed as set up by Luthor but it also turned out to be only a brief period. Toy companies probably care more about money than they do morality, so if they think Batman figures will sell, then I'm sure they'd make them.

I don't think the figure is proof he's very public, just public enough. He's appeared in public enough that someone could give an eye witness description of him on which to base a relatively accurate figure, and with technology/social media and CCTV these days, I don't imagine it would be too hard to come up with an image without Batman having to be in the light or working out of the shadows too much, so to speak.

 

[FunkMiller]

There totally aren't toys that are based on things inappropriate for kids in real life.
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All of those things are fictional.

 

[Guts]

All of those things are fictional.

So is Batman.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I thought wrestling was real as a kid. It didn't stop me from buying toys and games and pretending to be people like Kane.

 

[FunkMiller]

I guess my main point here is that I will struggle to get behind a Matt Reeves Batman movie, where the character will be merchandised, and a publically accepted figure that people love, with enough fans to justify action figures.

But maybe that’s just me.

 

[FunkMiller]

So is Batman.

Er... no he isn’t. Not in the DCEU, which Shazam is part of.

 

[misslane38]

All of those things are fictional.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that there were probably a number of children who were interested in legendary outlaws in the past (e.g. Jesse James, Al Capone, etc.). There was a lot of love and support for the Black Panthers too, for instance. And, since Batman may still be quite an enigmatic figure in the DCEU, he's an urban legend. That's not far off from fiction, if you ask me.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I guess my main point here is that I will struggle to get behind a Matt Reeves Batman movie, where the character will be merchandised, and a publically accepted figure that people love, with enough fans to justify action figures.

But maybe that’s just me.

You don't even know what that movie is about lol.

 

[misslane38]

I guess my main point here is that I will struggle to get behind a Matt Reeves Batman movie, where the character will be merchandised, and a publically accepted figure that people love, with enough fans to justify action figures.

But maybe that’s just me.

But there's a difference between what you know about Batman and what the public in the DCEU knows about Batman. Like I said before, there may not be a universal perception of Batman as a figure of nightmarish terror either as a consequence of ignorance or as a consequence of indifference. The public either doesn't know Batman was a murderer or the public doesn't care about his mean streak, particularly in light of his efforts to save the world alongside the Justice League. Plus, I thought it was a pretty safe bet at this point that Reeves was telling a prequel story.

 

[FunkMiller]

You don't even know what that movie is about lol.

What on Earth are you talking about? Of course I don’t know what Reeves’s Batman will be about, but if it’s set in the DCEU, and so is Shazam, it means that Batman is a person who has toys made out of him, and is loved by children!

 

[FunkMiller]

But there's a difference between what you know about Batman and what the public in the DCEU knows about Batman. Like I said before, there may not be a universal perception of Batman as a figure of nightmarish terror either as a consequence of ignorance or as a consequence of indifference. The public either doesn't know Batman was a murderer or the public doesn't care about his mean streak, particularly in light of his efforts to save the world alongside the Justice League. Plus, I thought it was a pretty safe bet at this point that Reeves was telling a prequel story.

What I know about Batman has zero bearing on my point. Which is that this Batman is one that has toys made out of him, and is loved by America’s children. For me, that is not a good basis on which to go into Reeves’s movie. But if you and others are fine with it, then that’s okay.

 

[Da-Scribe]

What on Earth are you talking about? Of course I don’t know what Reeves’s Batman will be about, but if it’s set in the DCEU, and so is Shazam, it means that Batman is a person who has toys made out of him, and is loved by children!

Lol so? Like misslane said, kids love Al Capone and guys like that. One of my best friends would call himself Lucky Luciano when we were kids. This man is almost 30 and still does actually. We had posters and other kinds of merch.

Someone should've told Brian De Palma that this was not a good basis for a film though.

 

[misslane38]

What I know about Batman has zero bearing on my point. Which is that this Batman is one that has toys made out of him, and is loved by America’s children. For me, that is not a good basis on which to go into Reeves’s movie. But if you and others are fine with it, then that’s okay.

Yes, it does. Because the public, including children and their caregivers, may not know everything you and I know about Batman in the DCEU. His more brutal streak was not widely reported and was later revealed to be partly the responsibility of Lex Luthor. We don't know what "America's children" in the DCEU know about Batman.

For all we know, he was a popular urban legend folk hero during his heyday and his dark period was underreported by the media that also later would have to retract accusations because Luthor was the true culprit. He may not have even been known at all outside Gotham until the events of Justice League, which would have painted him in a mostly positive and kid-friendly light.

Plus, and this is important, teenagers like Billy and Freddy love guys like Batman. I don't know if a Batman toy would be sought after by all of America's or the world's children, but I could definitely see him as a popular figure for older kids to admire and obsess over, especially kids like Billy and Freddy who haven't led charmed lives themselves.