Should being a parent be something that should be licensed?

[Mystirious]

Do you have an actual reason for this?

Yes. No one has the right to decide who can and cannot raise children. And I would fight anyone who tried to do so.

And when I say fight, I MEAN fight. Some people may be bad parents. But I will stand by their right to have the freedom to at least try.

 

[Havok83]

Um no. How would such a thing even be regulated

 

[The Battousai]

Yes. No one has the right to decide who can and cannot raise children. And I would fight anyone who tried to do so.

That's not a reason, it's an opinion

Also, it shouldn't be decided by one person, anyway. You're basing this response on something I'm not proposing.

 

[Mystirious]

That's not a reason, it's an opinion

The idea that who can raise childen should be controlled is fascist and wrongheaded. I am opposed to fascism. And so I am opposed to this idea.

Also, it shouldn't be decided by one person, anyway. You're basing this response on something I'm not proposing.

I don't care if it's one or one trillion. It makes no difference

 

[The Battousai]

If I'm only going to get sentence-long responses from you, I won't bother pushing the subject.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

If I'm only going to get sentence-long responses from you, I won't bother pushing the subject.

Quality over quantity.

He explained it quite well.

The idea of regulating who can and cannot have children is fascist.

He also stated that he does not care if it's 1 person, or a group of people, or however many people, nobody should have the power to decide who can and cannot have children.

 

[Anubis]

Unless you've got a death ray and an army of exploding robots. Then you can do whatever you want.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Yes. No one has the right to decide who can and cannot raise children. And I would fight anyone who tried to do so.

And when I say fight, I MEAN fight. Some people may be bad parents. But I will stand by their right to have the freedom to at least try.

So do you fight the DCFS?

 

[Mystirious]

So do you fight the DCFS?

That is not comparable to what is being proposed in this thread

 

[The Battousai]

Quality over quantity.

He explained it quite well.

The idea of regulating who can and cannot have children is fascist.

He also stated that he does not care if it's 1 person, or a group of people, or however many people, nobody should have the power to decide who can and cannot have children.

Are you not paying attention? I said "raise" - not "have".

Regardless, giving such a spare response shows how little thought went into the reasoning behind it.

 

[SuperFerret]

People should start eating their own young. Hamster society has done nothing but benefit from that practice.

 

[Mystirious]

Are you not paying attention? I said "raise" - not "have".

Regardless, giving such a spare response shows how little thought went into the reasoning behind it.

No, I simply did not wish to waffle on and on, when my resoning can be summed up clearly and precisely. I believe that anyone deciding who has the right to raise children is fascist. I do not trust anyone with that power as I do not trust anyone.

 

[The Battousai]

No, I simply did not wish to waffle on and on, when my resoning can be summed up clearly and precisely.

You ARE waffling by repeating the same tired phrase. Back up your position with reasons, and I'll better understand where you're coming from.

I believe that anyone deciding who has the right to raise children is fascist.

Let's start here: what's your definition of fascism?

I do not trust anyone with that power as I do not trust anyone.

 

[Erzengel]

I'd like to be on the committee that decides who and who can not have children.

I'd look at financial statements, psychological profiles, family history, etc.

 

[Mystirious]

You ARE waffling by repeating the same tired phrase. Back up your position with reasons, and I'll better understand where you're coming from.

All people have the right to raise their offspring. To take that right away would be wrong. That is my reasoning. I do not want some pompous band of twits deciding who can and cannot raise their own children

Let's start here: what's your definition of fascism?

Any attempt to control people or limit their freedom.

I'd like to be on the committee that decides who and who can not have children.

I'd look at financial statements, psychological profiles, family history, etc.

Thank you for ably demonstating why this is a stupid idea.

Mankind is an inherently evil species. I can think of no reason to truly trust anyone but myself. And even then, I only trust myself half of the time.

 

[The Battousai]

All people have the right to raise their offspring.

Inherently, yes. However, there are certain circumstances where children would need to be removed from their parents' care for their safety; such as drug addicts, criminals, etc.

Do you find this action to be "fascist"?

To take that right away would be wrong.

Not in every case.

For example, people who commit crimes lose their right to live free for the length of their sentence, do they not?

That is my reasoning.

Perhaps I haven't been clear about what "reasoning" is. It requires that any assertions you make be supported by factual information and reasonable ideas that lead to your positions (conclusions).

I do not want some pompous band of twits deciding who can and cannot raise their own children

You're perfectly fine with a "pompous band of twits" controlling hundreds of different aspects of this country, so why should this be any different to you?

And why do you automatically assume the worst?

Any attempt to control people or limit their freedom.

Wouldn't government and religion fall under this definition? Hell - even this forum would count as "fascist" under your definition simply because it has limitations on what people can post.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say you aren't thinking these things through.

Mankind is an inherently evil species.

Okay - you go ahead and believe that all you want

I can think of no reason to truly trust anyone but myself. And even then, I only trust myself half of the time.

That's really disturbing...

 

[Mystirious]

Inherently, yes. However, there are certain circumstances where children would need to be removed from their parents' care for their safety; such as drug addicts, criminals, etc.

Do you find this action to be "fascist"?

If the parents are actively abusing their children or placing them in danger by their action or inaction then it is sensible to remove the children from their care. Saying "it is concivable that, at some point in the future this person MAY abuse their child" is where I feel it becomes wrong. You are in essence punishing someone for something that you think they might do. I feel that is not only wrong but quite deranged

Unless you have the ability to forsee the future you cannot know with complete certainty that someone will be a bad parent. Even if there is but the tiniest sliver of doubt that is all that is needed.

Perhaps I haven't been clear about what "reasoning" is. It requires that any assertions you make be supported by factual information and reasonable ideas that lead to your positions (conclusions).

I believe the idea that the government should not be allowed to take away peoples children because someone thinks they MIGHT do something is perfectly reasonable. More reasonable than the tripe I've heard in defence of the idea of parenting being licensed

You're perfectly fine with a "pompous band of twits" controlling hundreds of different aspects of this country, so why should this be any different to you?

Except that I am not fine with this. There are a great many things that I have a problem with. However addressing them all would take this thread off topic and be intensely time consuming.

And why do you automatically assume the worst?

Because I find that if you assume the worst people never dissapoint.

Wouldn't government and religion fall under this definition?

Yes they do. Which is why I am agnostic and do not posses any respect for the government.

That's really disturbing...

Why thank you.

 

[Erzengel]

Mankind is an inherently evil species. I can think of no reason to truly trust anyone but myself. And even then, I only trust myself half of the time.

No, I'm serious. I'm probably more than qualified to do the job.

 

[TLATOANI]

mmm I think that there should be like mmm requirements or something like that. Not oonly the psycological exams but also they should have have like a house and a job or something otherwise they shouldn't be allowed to have kids.

sorry for the english

 

[Mystirious]

No, I'm serious. I'm probably more than qualified to do the job.

I would have to respectfully disagree as I am not of the opinion that anyone is qualified to do the job.

 

[The Battousai]

If the parents are actively abusing their children or placing them in danger by their action or inaction then it is sensible to remove the children from their care. Saying "it is concivable that, at some point in the future this person MAY abuse their child" is where I feel it becomes wrong. You are in essence punishing someone for something that you think they might do. I feel that is not only wrong but quite deranged

When did I ever say this? You're making assumptions about my position without any basis for doing so.

Unless you have the ability to forsee the future you cannot know with complete certainty that someone will be a bad parent. Even if there is but the tiniest sliver of doubt that is all that is needed.

Outside of mathematics there are no "complete certainties". To think otherwise is foolish. However, probabilities DO exist, and they are vital to understand. Without being able to distinguish between things that are probable, improbable, and everything in between decisions can't be made reasonably.

What I want is for the best information to be available so that the probabilities of a multitude of curcumstances can be evaluated accurately.

I believe the idea that the government should not be allowed to take away peoples children because someone thinks they MIGHT do something is perfectly reasonable. More reasonable than the tripe I've heard in defence of the idea of parenting being licensed

This isn't an argument I'm putting forward. What you're doing is attacking a straw man.

Except that I am not fine with this. There are a great many things that I have a problem with. However addressing them all would take this thread off topic and be intensely time consuming.

Because I find that if you assume the worst people never dissapoint.

"Never" is not a word to use so wistfully - such sweeping generalizations tend to be inaccurate.

Yes they do. Which is why I am agnostic and do not posses any respect for the government.

Do you live in a governed state?

Why thank you.

I fail to see how paranoia is something to be proud of.

 

[Mystirious]

When did I ever say this? You're making assumptions about my position without any basis for doing so.

You have said you want the government to license who can raise children, is that not correct?

What exactly do you expect them to do with children born to those who did not make th grade? If this obscene idea were to ever become reality those children would be taken from their parents

Outside of mathematics there are no "complete certainties". To think otherwise is foolish. However, probabilities DO exist, and they are vital to understand. Without being able to distinguish between things that are probable, improbable, and everything in between decisions can't be made reasonably.

You'll never get anywhere with that attitude

What I want is for the best information to be available so that the probabilities of a multitude of curcumstances can be evaluated accurately.

Wish in one hand, spit in the other. See which one fills up first

This isn't an argument I'm putting forward. What you're doing is attacking a straw man.

Then clarify what exactly your position is

"Never" is not a word to use so wistfully - such sweeping generalizations tend to be inaccurate.

Not really.

Do you live in a governed state?

Sadly yes I do. It is not a state of affairs that I am happy with

I fail to see how paranoia is something to be proud of.

Paranoia is the best self preservation mechanism that the human species posseses.

 

[Erzengel]

I would have to respectfully disagree as I am not of the opinion that anyone is qualified to do the job.

I have an education and a fair sense of right and wrong. Also I'm very good looking.

 

[Mystirious]

I have an education and a fair sense of right and wrong. Also I'm very good looking.

Are you trying to tell me why you are qualified or are you flirting with me?

 

[TheZink]

I agree with this being a bad idea, and Mysterious made a valid point.

To try and regulate/license something as complicated, involved, and important as raising a child is an insult. No person is ever ready to be a parent. It is a "learn-as-you-go" experience because each child is different and each child has unique needs and traits.

You are punishing the would be children for the faults of their parents. Who is to say that a child raised in adversity does not grow up to be an affluent member of the community? I was raised where my father lived on minimum wage, my mother got social security and we lived in low income housing. We had to depend on the support on friends and family to scrape by. I didn't always have new clothes, most times they were hand-me-downs. But my parents did what they had to, and would often go without so me and my siblings had what we needed. I learned much from growing up in a family like that and I take very little for granted. Children who grow-up in houses where everything is given to them often don't appreciate things nearly as much as I had to.

Also, you can't deny having children can turn a person's life around. I've seen it happen with some of my closest friends. Before they had kids they drank, smoked, and partied their lives away. Often they would work dead-end jobs and blow money on booze and pot. They knock-up a girl, they baby comes along and BAM they grow up over-night and start acting like adults with a precious life depending on them. You can never know how people will react to the situation, but to deny it happening to them, you deprive people of what could be a life altering event that changes them into productive members of society.