Should Comedians Have Free Rein?

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I think "free rein" can be taken too far.

Not this.

I think people do get a bit overly sensitive when it comes to "ethnic" humor. I mean, if a black guy does a "White guys can't dance" joke it's alright. But If a white guy does a "fried chicken" joke there is outrage? So I think we should lighten up when it comes to being ultra sensitive about that kind of humor. It's generally harmless.

But this.

 

[LizardMan07]

I think there's a really thin line between comedy and bigotry, and I think free reign of the "humour" comedians use allows that line to be slowly eroded.

Subject matter in general can be handled fine in the right context, but it's the way in which the comedian uses that context that should be regulated.

So no, comedians probably can't have free reign over whatever they want.

I'd even argue some subject matter should be off limits (rape, 9/11, columbine, general tragedies, etc) but I realise that's a bit harder to justify

 

[PacificBoy]

I thought Bill Maher was taking a swipe more at the teenybopper One Direction fanbase with the Dzhokhar Tsarnaev comparison since the latter also has squealing fangirls on his side.

By its nature, jokes of dubious humour and taste don't get much mileage. We have the decorum and sheer good sense not to quip about the holocaust in polite company. And how often is a MJ joke or the ilk told even amongst close friends anyway? It's the outrage which rather ironically gives a bad joke all its undue attention. I feel humour is already self-regulated by the fact the majority of us aren't a-holes.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

MJ jokes are hilarious. I will defend their telling with my dying breath.

 

[Erzengel]

I think there's a really thin line between comedy and bigotry, and I think free reign of the "humour" comedians use allows that line to be slowly eroded.

Subject matter in general can be handled fine in the right context, but it's the way in which the comedian uses that context that should be regulated.

So no, comedians probably can't have free reign over whatever they want.

I'd even argue some subject matter should be off limits (rape, 9/11, columbine, general tragedies, etc) but I realise that's a bit harder to justify

Some people say comedy is time plus tragedy.

You can make a Titanic joke now and most people won't bat an eye.

 

[Greens]

Some people say comedy is time plus tragedy.

You can make a Titanic joke now and most people won't bat an eye.

Yup.

Plus, I don't like the idea of subjects being "off-limits" because it means we should just be sad about those subjects no matter what.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

Plus it creates a slippery slope for people to argue the next thing should be off-limits as well. And so on.

 

[Erzengel]

Someone said it earlier to the effect that the U.S. in particular are easily offended and automatically see racial overtures regardless,of context. And again make a gay, Jewish or black offhandedly comment and its on the news. Make a white, Asian comment, you hear far less if any outrage.

case in point, that E! News host Guiliana Rancic who made a pot comment on a half black girl because of her dreads, immediately got labeled a racist.

 

[DeadPresident]

Someone said it earlier to the effect that the U.S. in particular are easily offended and automatically see racial overtures regardless,of context. And again make a gay, Jewish or black offhandedly comment and its on the news. Make a white, Asian comment, you hear far less if any outrage.

case in point, that E! News host Guiliana Rancic who made a pot comment on a half black girl because of her dreads, immediately got labeled a racist.

The issue here though is what is being said about gays, Jews and African Americans. When the gay joke includes the word "f*****", or the Jew joke is about the Holocaust or the black joke is about slavery or cops killing unarmed black men then it's not quite the same as poking fun at white people liking couscous or Asians being good at math. Both are discrimination, and both are racist. But there is a level of severity that people should pay attention to.

When people don't make a big deal over what can be construed as offensive then the response when someone's joke is "Hey, how many Jews can you fit in a VW beetle? 5 in the seats, 40,000 in the ashtray lolololol!" becomes "Come on man, it's just a joke". A lot of people want to hide behind "Stop censoring me!!!" so they can say absolutely any tasteless thing that comes into their heads.

Suffice it to say, certain **** just isn't funny, but it gets said under the guise of a "joke" fairly often.

 

[Travesty]

Suffice it to say, certain **** just isn't funny, but it gets said under the guise of a "joke" fairly often.

It's not funny to you. There is no "guise". You're basically saying any joke you don't find funny isn't a joke. But that's so far from the truth.

 

[Greens]

Suffice it to say, certain **** just isn't funny, but it gets said under the guise of a "joke" fairly often.

There's no arbitrary line with Funny on the left side and Not Funny on the right side.

 

[Erzengel]

I guess my point is a lot of people like to cherry pick what's offensive.

I remember Boondocks where the 2 black kids bundled up in the Winter are watching a white guy running in the snow and are saying "White People."

So if it was 2 white kids and its a Black guy eating fried chicken or not being able to swim and are like "Black People" is that more socially okay because it's poking fun at a less offensive stereotype?

 

[DeadPresident]

It's not funny to you. There is no "guise". You're basically saying any joke you don't find funny isn't a joke. But that's so far from the truth.

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is objectively there are certain things that I don't think deserve to be made light of. I'm not gay, Jewish, black, Asian or LGBTQ but I still find it tasteless when certain "jokes" about those groups are made.

"There is no 'guise'", riiiiiight.

There are plenty of other jokes I don't find funny but I don't have a problem with because their topics aren't going to cause offense. Another small issue with people saying it's okay for comedians to do this is they seem to be under the impression that only comedians would do those jokes and it wouldn't somehow disseminate into normal public discourse...Uh, news flash if Chris Rock or Jeff Dunham start going on offensive diatribes as "jokes", guess what you're going to have all their viewers spouting the same views.

So, if someone is a comedian it makes them incapable of hate speech? A few of the implications in this topic are slightly disturbing. But hey, people always find things funny until it actually draws them into the punchline, but they won't see the hypocrisy then.

 

[DeadPresident]

There's no arbitrary line with Funny on the left side and Not Funny on the right side.

Exactly, which is why I find the concept of "consideration" being a non-issue discouraging and slightly obvious at the same time. What else could you expect in a society where the rights of the individual are exalted above those of the collective.

This is a dead horse anyways.

I guess my point is a lot of people like to cherry pick what's offensive.

I remember Boondocks where the 2 black kids bundled up in the Winter are watching a white guy running in the snow and are saying "White People."

So if it was 2 white kids and its a Black guy eating fried chicken or not being able to swim and are like "Black People" is that more socially okay because it's poking fun at a less offensive stereotype?

I'd say both are stupid. It amuses me that the bell curve peasants find things like race/sexuality/religion jokes "funny". But I guess I'm in the vast minority there.

My point isn't just about offense per se, the first thing that goes through my mind is just "Why?". Those are a single level up from random dick and fart jokes, damn people, aim a bit higher

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is objectively there are certain things that I don't think deserve to be made light of. I'm not gay, Jewish, black, Asian or LGBTQ but I still find it tasteless when certain "jokes" about those groups are made.

"There is no 'guise'", riiiiiight.

There are plenty of other jokes I don't find funny but I don't have a problem with because their topics aren't going to cause offense. Another small issue with people saying it's okay for comedians to do this is they seem to be under the impression that only comedians would do those jokes and it wouldn't somehow disseminate into normal public discourse...Uh, news flash if Chris Rock or Jeff Dunham start going on offensive diatribes as "jokes", guess what you're going to have all their viewers spouting the same views.

So, if someone is a comedian it makes them incapable of hate speech? A few of the implications in this topic are slightly disturbing. But hey, people always find things funny until it actually draws them into the punchline, but they won't see the hypocrisy then.

Hate-speech would be where there's malicious or hateful intent behind the jokes. Most comedians get in trouble for jokes that weren't hateful, but just uncomfortably observational.

 

[Breogan]

NO! Canadians are completely out of control.

 

[DeadPresident]

Hate-speech would be where there's malicious or hateful intent behind the jokes. Most comedians get in trouble for jokes that weren't hateful, but just uncomfortably observational.

And if that's the case I've got no problem with it, genuinely I don't. But when people say there's no grey area with "censoring", rather than taking others into consideration, I think it's a problem.

If "Nothing is sacred" is the mantra, which it seems to unequivocally be in this topic, then comedians that feel like reciting some Mein Kampf, or joking about LGBTQ teen suicides or mocking the deaths of the victims of the Germanwings flight then that's permissible? I'm not sure I can agree with that.

That isn't the same as calling out a celebrity or politician, and I think a lot of people seem to be equating the two. When I go to an amateur open mic night and some guy thinks that joke from the Ashton Kutcher movie about "What are 3 things a black man can't get?", with black members of the audience, is "acceptable" because he can hide behind comedians having free reign I think there's a problem. There's a line between "I'm going to say this because I think it's funny" and "I'm going to say this because other people being offended isn't any of my concern".

But **** it, who wants better human beings.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

And if that's the case I've got no problem with it, genuinely I don't. But when people say there's no grey area with "censoring", rather than taking others into consideration, I think it's a problem.

If "Nothing is sacred" is the mantra, which it seems to unequivocally be in this topic, then comedians that feel like reciting some Mein Kampf, or joking about LGBTQ teen suicides or mocking the deaths of the victims of the Germanwings flight then that's permissible? I'm not sure I can agree with that.

How… would any of those examples constitute a joke?

Do you have examples of comedians reading from 'Mein Kampf' or laughing about gay teenagers who killed themselves?

Seems like you're drawing examples so extreme to make your point that they're so out there you would never see them in the context of comedy anyway.

It's just a notch below "what if a comedian sacrificed a child on stage? Would that be funny??"

That isn't the same as calling out a celebrity or politician, and I think a lot of people seem to be equating the two. When I go to an amateur open mic night and some guy thinks that joke from the Ashton Kutcher movie about "What are 3 things a black man can't get?", with black members of the audience, is "acceptable" because he can hide behind comedians having free reign I think there's a problem. There's a line between "I'm going to say this because I think it's funny" and "I'm going to say this because other people being offended isn't any of my concern".

I would be more scared about the guy getting beaten up after the show. I don't think many amateurs can hide when they insult their audience, so that's just silly. But should he have the right to make an ass out of himself on stage with bad jokes? Hell yeah.

But **** it, who wants better human beings.

I just want funny comedians.

 

[Travesty]

All I gotta say is, if you have a "objectively off limit" list for comedy, I implore you to never step foot in a comedy club. Or only go if you know for a fact that you'll like a certain act. But for the most part, comedy isn't for you.

 

[Greens]

How… would any of those examples constitute a joke?

Do you have examples of comedians reading from 'Mein Kampf' or laughing about gay teenagers who killed themselves?

Seems like you're drawing examples so extreme to make your point that they're so out there you would never see them in the context of comedy anyway.

It's just a notch below "what if a comedian sacrificed a child on stage? Would that be funny??"

"Knock, knock"
"Who's there?"
"LGBT teen suicides"

 

[Shikamaru]

Comedians should have free reign to make fun of anything and anyone. A true comedian understands that nothing is ever off limits.

Here's what the people advocating for censorship need to understand about comedy: it's funny because it's true.

The job in-of-itself is all about exposing the reality for what it really is. It's probably true that people shouldn't joke about LGBT teen suicides, but that's not because of a moral dilemma. It's because the jokes often made on that topic are not based on truth. When a joke isn't based on truth, it ceases to be good comedy.

So while it's true that comedians often avoid things like LGBT suicide jokes or racist jokes, it's not because they feel some moral obligation to self-censor but because most of those jokes just suck in the first place, and are more based on lies and stereotypes than on any sort of "truth". There's no reality to expose there.

 

[The Shape]

And even when comedians are saying things that aren't inherently true, they're often telling exaggerated versions of the truth and poking fun at known stereotypes or common scenarios. They verbalize the kinds of thoughts that we often think, but never have the courage or outlet to say aloud, which makes them an invaluable asset to our society.

We need people who can point out the ridiculousness and absurdity that we are all exposed to in daily life. There's hardly a place for political correctness in comedy, and some people are truly unable to grasp that concept.

 

[Travesty]

Some people just have a hard time understanding that comedy is for entertainment purposes. It's not exactly "real". It's all just smoke and mirrors. Nobody thinks Edward Norton is a racist cause he played one in America History X, and most sane adults know that when they go see a magician, that he doesn't have actual supernatural powers. Do you think Larry David is that much of an ass to people in real life? But when a comedian goes on stage and says something that one may interpret as offensive, there is no more entertainment, there is no more act, there is no more on-stage persona, there is no more satire. Now it's a real person saying his actual thoughts and is a hatemonger. If you say a rape joke, you're a misogynist. But if you play a rapist in a movie, it's perfectly acceptable. Hell, you might even get an award for it.

It's not real. It's called show business for a reason. It boggles my mind how people know a magician isn't magical, but can't understand that a comedian has an act.

 

[The Shape]

1. Why do comedians get a pass and others don't

Why do NFL players get a pass to tackle people violently and others don't?

Comedy is a profession. A comedian is an entertainer. It is literally a comedian's job to tell jokes and make light of all kinds of people and situations with the intention to make people laugh.

2. What constitutes a comedian? Anyone can say that theyre a comedian

And anyone can say that they're an astronaut, but that wouldn't make them an astronaut.

What constitutes being a comedian? Well, for one, making a living in comedy -- whether it be in stand-up comedy, sketch comedy, comedic acting, etc -- constitutes being a comedian. Even someone who is trying to make a living in comedy -- performing at small clubs, open mic nights, going on auditions, taking a shot at internet humor -- can be considered a comedian (though not necessarily a good one).

In this day and age, anyone can say anything and anyone can try to say funny things on Twitter, but that doesn't equate to being a comedian and doesn't necessarily give everyone a "free pass". For instance, if a school teacher tweeted a joke that could be considered inappropriate or in poor taste, it'd be a little different than someone who has decided to devote their life to working in comedy (and who people should KNOW not to take seriously) saying the very same thing.

Idk I still don't buy the people in the thread saying that comedians should have complete free rein and people shouldn't be offended.

I mean would you go to the families of the people in the German Wings crash and make jokes?

But that still kinda counts as getting offended doesn't it? I mean it's not the same as ranting about it on TWitter. But idk to me that's still getting at least a little bit offended.

But the example you just used is absurd. What kind of person, comedian or not, would "go to the families" affected by that plane crash and try to make jokes about the situation? What would be the "joke"?

SNL was able to create a sketch this past week that included the German plane crash (a topical news story), but instead poked fun at the way networks like CNN dramatize news stories, create ridiculous re-enactments, and regurgitate the same phrases over and over. The sketch was funny, and they found a creative way to include the plane crash crash without being insensitive. That's good comedy.

There's a difference between saying an outright mean, insensitive comment and saying something with the intention to cause amusement and laughter, often with a punchline or point to it.

 

[The Shape]

It's not real. It's called show business for a reason. It boggles my mind how people know a magician isn't magical, but can't understand that a comedian has an a act.

Yeah, it's pretty hard to fathom. I mean, it's completely true that comedy (like all forms of entertainment) is subjective. There are plenty of comedians that I don't find to be funny, just like their are movies I don't like and musicians I don't enjoy listening to. But the idea of getting offended by a comedians jokes, especially the kind of relatively tame and stereotypical jokes that Trevor Noah got blasted for, is absurd to me.

A Jewish person getting offended by Jewish jokes, or a black person getting offended by black jokes (made by a black comic) would almost be like a person who works as a clown for a living getting offended by Heath Ledger's portrayal of The Joker because it paints clowns in a negative light. None of if it real (even if there is some basis in truth), and it's all for the sake of entertainment.