Should Hans Zimmer borrow from the John Williams score?

[Project862006]

he does'nt just do dark he can do light hearted

 

[Nirvana]

Light-hearted Zimmer?

[YT]Tn4pZ8laors[/YT]

 

[Warhammer]

Hell no. This is a brand new Superman. No themes whatsoever should be carried over from the original Superman films. This is Snyder's man of steel.

 

[Hush]

Zimmer's scores are a nice complement to the movies, but they are completely forgettable. Superman needs a score that tells his story all by itself, that sounds as triumphant as he is. Zimmer is not going to do that by starting from scratch.

Changing the theme completely would be like putting Superman in black leather tights, or making his love interest someone else besides Lois Lane. It wouldn't be Superman.

Are you ****ing kidding? Inception, Gladiator, Rain Man, The Lion King, Batman Begins and countless other scores are completely forgettable? He made those from scratch, influences from other pieces yes but primarily it was influence from HIS work that he used.

The theme is great we all agree on that but changing it does not change the character in anyway.

The 90's Batman films already moved away from the Elfman score. The Elfman score for batman was far less synonymous with Batman himself, as it was a staple of Batman for only 5 years. The Williams score for Superman has been a staple of Superman for over three decades. Moreover, Williams theme captures the heart and soul of Superman far better than the Elfman theme did for Batman.

I suppose if you didn't grow up watching the original superman movies, you wouldn't identify with what I'm saying.

It seems to me that nothing can get better than the Williams theme. Change simply for the sake change is alway a bad idea.

SO I didnt grow up watching the movies? I don't know if your aware but Elfman's theme was the basis for TAS theme song by Shirley Walker. SO it was around a little longer than five years and parts of it are heard in all 4 of the original films, its just as iconic as Superman and if you hear it no one says "oh who's theme is that?". Don't sell that theme short.

I do not want change for changes sake, I want change because I want a new sound for Superman and I do not want to have to think of the reeves films every time I watch the new one. Its plain and simple. I respect what Williams did but even Potter has moved past just playing Hedwigs theme over and over again. Zimmer is more than qualified to make and awesome score that he doesnt need to pay hommage. By clinging to Williams the way you are you're asking for more of the same as far as the Superman movies have gone.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

^Best post in this thread.

 

[solidsnake86]

The 90's Batman films already moved away from the Elfman score. The Elfman score for batman was far less synonymous with Batman himself, as it was a staple of Batman for only 5 years. The Williams score for Superman has been a staple of Superman for over three decades. Moreover, Williams theme captures the heart and soul of Superman far better than the Elfman theme did for Batman.

I suppose if you didn't grow up watching the original superman movies, you wouldn't identify with what I'm saying.

It seems to me that nothing can get better than the Williams theme. Change simply for the sake change is alway a bad idea.

Wow I can't believe you actually typed that. Considering you think the Elfman theme is so forgettable its funny that its appeard in more forms of media then the beloved williams theme. Batman the animated series used it, which is arguably more popular then 4 of the superman movies no one cares about. Not to mention lego batman recently used the theme last year post Nolan batman. I understand that the williams theme is close to a lot of people and I respect that, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking another theme won't work, or that the elfman theme wasn't important because last time I checked the 1989 batman movie was a cultural phenomenon. For a theme that is so popular why did superman man the animated series not use it, or smallville. Did lois and clark even use the theme?

 

[jak123]

Look, I love Williams theme, but now is the time for a completely new score.

 

[Figs]

As much as I love William's score I think it's time to move on and Zimmer should do something entirely new. I loved Elfman's Batman theme growing up but now I don't really care for it. Now I know William's Superman theme is waaay more iconic but I can get over it and I have the first two Superman films at home if I ever miss it.

They need to distance this film from all of the past ones as much as possible, I'm looking forward to what Zimmer comes up with.

 

[Kurosawa]

Love the Willams theme. I also loved the Fleischer theme, the theme from Kirk Alyn's serial and of course the TV theme. It's time to move on.

 

[Elevator Man]

I know what Hans Zimmer can borrow from Williams for this reboot..... William's talent. That's not going to happen, though.

 

[Asgard]

Synthesizers FTW!

I really wonder just what hell create for Superman's theme.

 

[Elevator Man]

Synthesizers FTW!

I really wonder just what hell create for Superman's theme.

[YT]RBzkAbx9gk0?[/YT]

 

[aaronw]

Are you ****ing kidding? Inception, Gladiator, Rain Man, The Lion King, Batman Begins and countless other scores are completely forgettable? He made those from scratch, influences from other pieces yes but primarily it was influence from HIS work that he used.

The theme is great we all agree on that but changing it does not change the character in anyway.



SO I didnt grow up watching the movies? I don't know if your aware but Elfman's theme was the basis for TAS theme song by Shirley Walker. SO it was around a little longer than five years and parts of it are heard in all 4 of the original films, its just as iconic as Superman and if you hear it no one says "oh who's theme is that?". Don't sell that theme short.

I do not want change for changes sake, I want change because I want a new sound for Superman and I do not want to have to think of the reeves films every time I watch the new one. Its plain and simple. I respect what Williams did but even Potter has moved past just playing Hedwigs theme over and over again. Zimmer is more than qualified to make and awesome score that he doesnt need to pay hommage. By clinging to Williams the way you are you're asking for more of the same as far as the Superman movies have gone.

1. To be perfectly honest I was dissapointed when the original Elfman was no longer being used. That didn't make Nolan's Batman's suck, but I think they would have better if it included the Elfman stuff a bit more. The music is about defining the character, and when you get a theme that defines the heroism of the character perfectly, you should not just throw it away.

2. YES, most of those themes you mentioned are forgettable. 20 years down the line very few people are going to remember them. I've watched Gladiator at least 20 times and I don't remember **** of that score. They're no where near as catchy as Williams' scores are. That's because Zimmer's score are never a prominent aspect of the story telling ...never (like I said, only a nice compliment). Williams, Elfman, Silvistri, Goldsmith---they know how to make momumental themes. Not Zimmer.

3. We have to admit that the Reeve films were very formative. Yes, we do need to move past them. Superman needs to be updated by fighting more contemporary and realistic threats. But the character, at its bone, does not need to be updated. The Williams theme, independently of Reeve movies, got at the bone of the character.

 

[aaronw]

Wow I can't believe you actually typed that. Considering you think the Elfman theme is so forgettable its funny that its appeard in more forms of media then the beloved williams theme. Batman the animated series used it, which is arguably more popular then 4 of the superman movies no one cares about. Not to mention lego batman recently used the theme last year post Nolan batman. I understand that the williams theme is close to a lot of people and I respect that, but lets not delude ourselves into thinking another theme won't work, or that the elfman theme wasn't important because last time I checked the 1989 batman movie was a cultural phenomenon. For a theme that is so popular why did superman man the animated series not use it, or smallville. Did lois and clark even use the theme?

Yeah, I went a little far disparaging the elfman theme. It was iconic. And because of that I'm sad that it wasn't continued to be used, at least little more, in the Nolan films. Oh, and last I checked, Batman TAS only incorporated elements from it.

As far as other recent superman media goes, Superman TAS did incorporate elements, lois and clark just sucked, and smallville DID use the theme (there's arguably no primary score for smallville, just that pop song they play in intro)

By the way, I've heard the Superman theme played at far more public events than the Elfman theme, such as on the 4th of july.

Another theme might work, but my skepticism is warrented. Look at it this way, if at some point they remade star wars, wouldn't it seem wrong not to incorporate the same main title theme? The James Bond directors did the right thing. A theme was introduced that really captured the essence of the character, and they kept with it.

 

[byte19]

it amazes me how Hans' pissed on by you lot when he has over 100 scores under his belt, an Oscar, 2 Golden Globes, several Grammys, and themes heard in radio, and T.V. besides films. And He has said time and time again his faves are Morriconne, Barry, Goldsmith AND Williams... But because he has the ability to do what the legends do, you knock him: 'he's forgettable' 'he uses no real themes' 'he has way talented composers around him' you hear bout John's proteges? no. because there aren't any! Hans gives up and coming composers, like myself one day, to do what he does: make music. I won't say give the man a chance... you got no choice in the matter, he's scoring, John ain't.
Here Endeth The Lesson.

 

[Gamma Ray]

Just as Batman got a new theme, so too should Superman.

 

[CLARKY]

Most of us love the original John Williams Superman score, especially the title march. It is supremely iconic and has become synonymous with Superman himself.

Yes. Yes completely. He should completely "borrow", re-interprat, re-imagined, re-use, whatever, the Superman march. For me the key word is re-interpretation. I think he should be aware of the importance of the Superman march and just reinterpret it, in some ways, depending of the need of the movie; It does not mean that they should copy Donner in every ways.

 

[Krumm]

My head says, "Of course not. That would be silly. He should do it his way."

My heart says, "Keep the march. Keep the march. Keep the march... etc."

Needless to say, I'm conflicted.

 

[Hush]

1. To be perfectly honest I was dissapointed when the original Elfman was no longer being used. That didn't make Nolan's Batman's suck, but I think they would have better if it included the Elfman stuff a bit more. The music is about defining the character, and when you get a theme that defines the heroism of the character perfectly, you should not just throw it away.

2. YES, most of those themes you mentioned are forgettable. 20 years down the line very few people are going to remember them. I've watched Gladiator at least 20 times and I don't remember **** of that score. They're no where near as catchy as Williams' scores are. That's because Zimmer's score are never a prominent aspect of the story telling ...never (like I said, only a nice compliment). Williams, Elfman, Silvistri, Goldsmith---they know how to make momumental themes. Not Zimmer.

3. We have to admit that the Reeve films were very formative. Yes, we do need to move past them. Superman needs to be updated by fighting more contemporary and realistic threats. But the character, at its bone, does not need to be updated. The Williams theme, independently of Reeve movies, got at the bone of the character.

1. Your right we shouldn't throw away a perfectly good theme but if you are trying to REBOOT a character why would you keep what was old? Superman not only needs a on screen presence he needs a new atmosphere for his films! Music is in movies to create Atmosphere and the only way to get a new one and not feel like we are catering to the wants of an older generation of films is to give him a new sound.

2. I don't even know where to start, Inception would not have had the Gravitas that it did if you had someone else score it, or if you would not have had that Zimmer sound. The Lion King would not be what it has become today if you don't include the music in that movie, there is a reason its one of the top grossing Disney Movies and was adapted to a BROADWAY MUSICAL. Gladiators and Batman Begins Scores stand out to me because they are so big and epic, the perfect feel for those movies. I remember them and when I hear notes from them I know the movie immediately.

3. You say we have to move past the reeves movies but you still want to cling to the "bone" of the character in his score. This is just silly. Williams is a great composer and God knows he will go down as one of the greatest if not THE GREATEST but just like rock and roll, songs die out. It will always be a golden oldie but it's just that OLD. I hate change but this is a new Era for Superman shouldn't he be allowed some new music? New Actor, New Director, New Score? Just get your old age bias out of the equation and think about the kids of today, shouldn't they be allowed to grow up with a new theme for their Superman?

 

[GreenKToo]

As much as I love the williams score, for my part I have to say no. It's a reboot afterall.

 

[Rust]

Pointless thread. It's already been established that it's a "reinvention".

Accept it and move on, please.

 

[The Sage]

Brand new score, though I wouldn't mind hearing a few familiar notes. But it's not a need. Brand new music to establish a brand new Superman.

 

[afan]

Brand new score.......

I love the Williams theme, but I also equally love the themes from the Fleischer cartoons and the Reeves 50s series. They all are iconic Superman to me and if Zimmer can add one more to that Hall of Fame all the better.

 

[romeogbs19]

Drop the Williams theme.

While I'm not sure whether Zimmer can top Williams, I'm 100% sure that we don't need to keep dragging Superman into his 70s/80s films.

This is a reboot; it's a fresh start. Snyder's Superman is his own and the music should reflect that.

 

[solidsnake86]

Yes. Yes completely. He should completely "borrow", re-interprat, re-imagined, re-use, whatever, the Superman march. For me the key word is re-interpretation. I think he should be aware of the importance of the Superman march and just reinterpret it, in some ways, depending of the need of the movie; It does not mean that they should copy Donner in every ways.

Here's the problem I have with this though, if they do keep certain elements the first thing everyone says is williams theme can't be topped and its better. So why bother using it in the first place if its only going to be second best. I thought Ottoman did a great job but apparentely it wasn't good enough for a lot of fans. Besides, I really think its only fans that care about the theme because if you asked a random person I doubt they could sing you the tune, without getting confused between indiana jones and star wars.