The Dark Knight Rises Should "Realism" be lightened up a bit?

[El Payaso]

The Prestige is great.

Incredibly great you mean. Truly an extraordinary movie.

 

[Dog Logan]

Hell no the realism shouldn't be lightened up on, not in the slightest. It's been great seeing a more realistic interpretation of Batman, and I'd like that to continue until this franchise officially ends.

 

[Anubis]

Bad Dog!

 

[Two-Face]

God no Haven't WB learned anything from previous franchise?? Look at B89,BR BF and B&R. How different those movies were.

 

[Anubis]

That's why you're dead.

 

[Dog Logan]

Dude, you're not funny. If you're not going to contribute anything useful then why are you posting in the first place?

And to add on to what I said, Batman's villains definitely work better when there's not a more supernatural element to them. I'd prefer to see this entire franchise with villains with no powers. Nolan can do it, no doubt about it.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Anubis has been here for over 7 years and has 35,000+ posts. He's allowed to say what's on his mind.


As for the the "Realisim". Don't fix what isn't broken.

 

[Dog Logan]

He's not saying anything important, and post count doesn't matter. Quality is always better than quantity.

I agree with the second half of your post, though.

 

[raybia]

Hi everyone, I was just wondering if the "realism" in this movie series should be atken down a notch. You see, the other day a friend and I got into a debate about what the Riddler's look should be. I wanted the man to have black slacks, a green blazer, and a question mark lapel pin but that would be too "supervillain" for Nolan's films. Also, there's the thing about making the villains "realistic". I've heard a suggestion about Mr. Freeze locking people in a meat locker, which takes away a good amount of appeal to the charcater in my opinion. By the looks of it Batman himself is too unrealistic for these films (a man dresses up as a giant bat and fights criminals...come on). So what do you guys think? How realistic can we go before it becomes too realistic? Can it become too realistic?

The same level of realism should be employed for the 3rd movie as it was for the first two in order to stay consistent. Once Nolan's assumed trilogy is completed then maybe but even then I wouldn't stray to far from what Nolan established. Maybe the type of realism that was in "Live Free and Diehard" which really wasn't that realistic at all.

 

[Mistah K88]

Sorry for the bump after so long, however I still do feel that this is still a relevant topic. I've been discussing some rougues that border on realism and fantasy like Killer Croc or Poison Ivy lately and I was wondering if there is a necessary NEED to explain every single small detail about how they came to be.

For example, we know that Croc is just a black man with a skin disorder that gives him a tough hide. I've seen people (and I've been guilty myself) go and look up real diseases that would be somewhat suitible to the condition Croc has to somewhat give us a more plausible take as it exists somewhere out there in the world. However, a question that comes to my mind is "Does it matter if the skin condition he has exists in the real world or not?". We've gotten a non existant flower that can cause hallucinations in Begins that is used to make Scarecrow's fear toxin, so is it really all that necessary to have Croc, Ivy (immunity to poison), or even Mr Freeze's (below 0 degrees to survive) physical conditions exist in the real world?

As for one like Ivy, controlling plants mentally borders on magic and wouldn't really work in my opinion. However, she was portrayed in BTAS as a scientist and all her plant related craziness came from her skills in chemistry...

How realistic should characters be before we strip them down and nueter them to the point where it's a completely different character? Is just their personallity quirks enough? An example would be Mr. Freeze is still obsessed with saving his wife, however he's not in his robot suit or doesn't even have a freezing gun. Just a normal shotgun or something with like...ice bullets or something to give him his name. Has he lost all of his appeal then?

Any thoughts?

 

[griffolyon12]

Hell no the realism shouldn't be lightened up on, not in the slightest. It's been great seeing a more realistic interpretation of Batman, and I'd like that to continue until this franchise officially ends.

I do agree that WB should at least wait till Nolan's tenure over the franchise is up, but after that, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a more comic book-styled Batman film.

 

[Anubis]

I would come in and point out that that guys banned now and I'm still here, owning noobs with awesome style, but I don't wanna be "that guy".

And I still say Screw Realism.

 

[Punisher Rising]

And I still say Screw Realism.

I'll always be for more fantasy elements being allowed into the current Batman series. IMO, being hyper-realistic will become limiting and dull after a while.

 

[General_Obol]

Sorry for the bump after so long, however I still do feel that this is still a relevant topic. I've been discussing some rougues that border on realism and fantasy like Killer Croc or Poison Ivy lately and I was wondering if there is a necessary NEED to explain every single small detail about how they came to be.

For example, we know that Croc is just a black man with a skin disorder that gives him a tough hide. I've seen people (and I've been guilty myself) go and look up real diseases that would be somewhat suitible to the condition Croc has to somewhat give us a more plausible take as it exists somewhere out there in the world. However, a question that comes to my mind is "Does it matter if the skin condition he has exists in the real world or not?". We've gotten a non existant flower that can cause hallucinations in Begins that is used to make Scarecrow's fear toxin, so is it really all that necessary to have Croc, Ivy (immunity to poison), or even Mr Freeze's (below 0 degrees to survive) physical conditions exist in the real world?

As for one like Ivy, controlling plants mentally borders on magic and wouldn't really work in my opinion. However, she was portrayed in BTAS as a scientist and all her plant related craziness came from her skills in chemistry...

How realistic should characters be before we strip them down and nueter them to the point where it's a completely different character? Is just their personallity quirks enough? An example would be Mr. Freeze is still obsessed with saving his wife, however he's not in his robot suit or doesn't even have a freezing gun. Just a normal shotgun or something with like...ice bullets or something to give him his name. Has he lost all of his appeal then?

Any thoughts?

You're right about Croc - it doesn't need to be a real skin disorder. Doubt we'll see him, though

Some characters really can't be stripped down. Take Clayface. Without his malleable body, he's really not Clayface. You can, however, take the original concept behind Clayface and make it realistic. An actor wears the mask of his most famous character, a slasher-type villain called Clayface, and uses it to sabotage his the set of a remake of one of his movies. That, however, is more along the lines of a Scooby-Doo villain than a Batman villain.

Freeze can be stripped down, but he doesn't need to be as stripped down as you think. Here's an idea:

Victor Fries works for the R&D department for Janus Industries (in other words, their equivalent of Lucius Fox). However, Fries's studies are almost shut down after the CEO of Janus, Roman Sionis, discovers that Fries has embezzled millions from the company to keep his wife Nora alive in a cryogenic stasis. Secretly, Sionis is also vying for control of Gotham's criminal underworld from the new don of the Falcone crime family (Rupert Thorne) who has bought the services of a high-tech arms dealer known as the Penguin. Publically, Sionis fires Fries, but, seeing the potential in Fries's research, offers him a deal - develop weapons for his war and he won't pull the plug on Nora. Fries agrees and develops two weapons: a suit of battle armor and a gun that shoots liquid nitrogen at a high velocity. Due to the high cost of the weapons and overall disinterest, Sionis pulls the plug on Fries's research and his wife. Nora's death drives Fries to don the battle armor and take his gun to have his revenge on Sionis.

Similar to what happened to Dent in TDK.

 

[DerTommissar]

NO...the realism should NOT be lightened!!! It's one of the most striking and enjoyable facets of Nolan's series....he maintains the essence of the characters but adds a thrilling does of plausibility. It makes the stories feel believable and urgent. I could watch Nolan Batman movies for years to come and not get bored...waiting for these movies reminds me of reading comics in the 80's when there was an excitement in the comic shop every week with all the good stuff coming out...(except with movies we weather multi-year gaps between chapters ).

NewYorkSpider is dead-on: Don't fix what ain't broke!!!

 

[GaiusBaltar]

You're right about Croc - it doesn't need to be a real skin disorder. Doubt we'll see him, though

Some characters really can't be stripped down. Take Clayface. Without his malleable body, he's really not Clayface. You can, however, take the original concept behind Clayface and make it realistic. An actor wears the mask of his most famous character, a slasher-type villain called Clayface, and uses it to sabotage his the set of a remake of one of his movies. That, however, is more along the lines of a Scooby-Doo villain than a Batman villain.

Freeze can be stripped down, but he doesn't need to be as stripped down as you think. Here's an idea:

Victor Fries works for the R&D department for Janus Industries (in other words, their equivalent of Lucius Fox). However, Fries's studies are almost shut down after the CEO of Janus, Roman Sionis, discovers that Fries has embezzled millions from the company to keep his wife Nora alive in a cryogenic stasis. Secretly, Sionis is also vying for control of Gotham's criminal underworld from the new don of the Falcone crime family (Rupert Thorne) who has bought the services of a high-tech arms dealer known as the Penguin. Publically, Sionis fires Fries, but, seeing the potential in Fries's research, offers him a deal - develop weapons for his war and he won't pull the plug on Nora. Fries agrees and develops two weapons: a suit of battle armor and a gun that shoots liquid nitrogen at a high velocity. Due to the high cost of the weapons and overall disinterest, Sionis pulls the plug on Fries's research and his wife. Nora's death drives Fries to don the battle armor and take his gun to have his revenge on Sionis.

Similar to what happened to Dent in TDK.

Too similiar, I'd say.

In reality, Realism is a very good tool for Nolan but only when he can push the limits of it, like with the memory cloth, the microwave emitter or the huge bat-sonar. And Mr. Freeze biggest selling point for me is his shot at redemption and his motive. But by motive I don't mean revenge: I mean saving his wife's life, which sets him apart of Dent while maintaining the obvious similarities.

Also, I believe there is great plausibility already in the concept of Freeze with just minimal changes. This is my concept:

Spoiler

His name is Victor Fries. He suffers from CIPA, which means he can't feel pain nor temperatures. He cannot feel heat nor cold, never could in his life due to his condition. He was brilliant but socially miserable until he met and married his wife Norah. He worked for many months in low lab temperatures in a research about hibernation, which he fully commited to after his wife got sick with a rare fatal illness.
His desperate solution to the problem was to submit her into cryostasis to gain time to find a cure.
That goes on, until he suffers the tragic accident we all know about, but freakishly survives. In his new state, he loses all his hair, his skin turns pale blue due to little oxygen consumption (he goes cyanotic) and he needs to remain in the same low temperatures; a drastic change would give him a heat stroke and send him into hyperthermia and death. He begins wearing a powered exoskeleton suit that increases his body strength (reducing his waste of energy) and protects him from enviromental temperatures.
Basically, he is in the balance between life and death, and in that delicate health balance he must do whatever it takes to cure his wife.

There are many holes there but if you thought it sounded realistic, it was more than enough. If you didn't, well, that's all I've got.

EDIT:

Here are some didactic links to wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congeni...ith_anhidrosis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspend...an_hibernation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryosta...hrate_hydrates)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanosis#Central_cyanosis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton

For Your Consideration.

 

[3atman]

I don't think so. I think TDK walked the line of realism vs fantasy perfectly. Realism is what makes Batman Batman, or at least the illusion of realism. Sure you can say "it's a story about a man dressed as a giant bat, come on" but really, that's not that out of the ordinary. People rob banks in weirder costumes. Now, if it was "a story about a man with a magic green ring" or "a long haired blonde norse god" then yea, throw realism out the window, but it's not. It's about a human dresses in a protective suit that happens to slightly resemble a bat (he's not really dressed as a giant bat, the ears, color, and cape are the only things that make it bat-like, he doesn't have fake hairs and fangs on it).

 

[GaiusBaltar]

3atman, I was a pleasure meeting you. Now prepare to be eaten alive. Farewell

 

[General_Obol]

Too similiar, I'd say.

In reality, Realism is a very good tool for Nolan but only when he can push the limits of it, like with the memory cloth, the microwave emitter or the huge bat-sonar. And Mr. Freeze biggest selling point for me is his shot at redemption and his motive. But by motive I don't mean revenge: I mean saving his wife's life, which sets him apart of Dent while maintaining the obvious similarities.

Also, I believe there is great plausibility already in the concept of Freeze with just minimal changes. This is my concept:

Spoiler

His name is Victor Fries. He suffers from CIPA, which means he can't feel pain nor temperatures. He cannot feel heat nor cold, never could in his life due to his condition. He was brilliant but socially miserable until he met and married his wife Norah. He worked for many months in low lab temperatures in a research about hibernation, which he fully commited to after his wife got sick with a rare fatal illness.
His desperate solution to the problem was to submit her into cryostasis to gain time to find a cure.
That goes on, until he suffers the tragic accident we all know about, but freakishly survives. In his new state, he loses all his hair, his skin turns pale blue due to little oxygen consumption (he goes cyanotic) and he needs to remain in the same low temperatures; a drastic change would give him a heat stroke and send him into hyperthermia and death. He begins wearing a powered exoskeleton suit that increases his body strength (reducing his waste of energy) and protects him from enviromental temperatures.
Basically, he is in the balance between life and death, and in that delicate health balance he must do whatever it takes to cure his wife.

There are many holes there but if you thought it sounded realistic, it was more than enough. If you didn't, well, that's all I've got.

EDIT:

Here are some didactic links to wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congeni...ith_anhidrosis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspend...an_hibernation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryosta...hrate_hydrates)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanosis#Central_cyanosis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton

For Your Consideration.

My only problem with your idea for Freeze is that it leaves him isolated. One of the numerous (but one of the strongest) things that make Nolan's films superior to the Burton/Schumacher series is that the villains all somehow inter-weave with each other while avoiding the dreaded "villain team-up". In mine, I tried to incorporate as many different villains as I could while still making it realistic.

 

[Anubis]

I'd rather them not even attempt to use characters like Freeze or Ivy if they're just gonna lame them up for the imagination impaired. Use Penguin or Black Mask or White Shark, or whatever. Finish his trilogy, then we can move on to somebody that is willing to do the fantastic parts of Batman justice. Cuz it's not just realism. Batman has many facets. Dark Brooding realism is simply a small part of it.

The worst part is that looking at some of Nolan's other films, he probably could pull it off and well I might add. But for some reason he seems to think that Batman and the fantastic don't mix. 70 plus years of bat's fighting aliens, wizards, and super scientists says differently.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Its just the angle he chooses to see Batman from.

 

[Anubis]

Well then he should probably try looking at it from over by the ficus. Much better angle.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Lol dude!

 

[redhawk23]

yes batman has battled aliens and wizards, but fact of that matter is many comics SUCK!

i mean why don't we just have a films with the batmite in them?

seriously its a slippery slope. we've had the rediculous camp. I do think that we can eventually have a more balanced batman film but for now, with this present series i hope they keep it as it is.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

My only problem with your idea for Freeze is that it leaves him isolated. One of the numerous (but one of the strongest) things that make Nolan's films superior to the Burton/Schumacher series is that the villains all somehow inter-weave with each other while avoiding the dreaded "villain team-up". In mine, I tried to incorporate as many different villains as I could while still making it realistic.

It doesn't leave him isolated. Why do you say that? It's not a story concept, it's an origin concept which, after delivered, can lead to as many types of alliances with Freeze has you see fit... of course, he must engage in these alliances only when he thinks it leads to saving his wife. Remember BTAS "Sub-zero", he had a partner there who was like the real main villain. Replace that character with any super-villain and there you go. Any villain would have reasons to try to use Freeze, after all. (I'd like that to be The Penguin because I envision the Penguin to be a technology-investing, weapons manufacturer mogul, but that's just me.)