The Dark Knight Rises Are Nolan's Batman Films Really THAT Realistic?!

[DieSmiling]

But still, it adds to the "world building" of the movie, and that logic is broken by other elements of the film.

I'd still like you to point out one time internal logic is broken in the movie.

You seem convinced that because you believe the movie is trying hard to be serious that having a bullet scanner means the film "breaks logic."

I mean, seriously...

 

[The Morningstar]

I'd still like you to point out one time internal logic is broken in the movie.

You seem convinced that because you believe the movie is trying hard to be serious that having a bullet scanner means the film "breaks logic."

I mean, seriously...

Because the movie has realistic police/crime elements. It explains extradition policies, it explains RICO etc.

Then it has some bullet scanning thing that makes absolutely no sense (you get finger prints on bullet casings, not the actual bullet itself) and it blows all that realistic police proceedural elements out of the water. It's also a plot device that denies some real detective work by Batman being shown.

It's not the fact that Batman has this high tech gadget. It's Batman, of course he should have gadgets. It's the fact that it's just... stupid. I don't think that would even make it into the comics. Anyone who knows anything about police proceedure knows a finger or thumb never actually touches the bullet itself. It's a glaring cock up. And for a movie that clearly prides itself on being plausible and having realistic crime elements, it's jarring.

 

[Gianakin_]

Because the movie has realistic police/crime elements. It explains extradition policies, it explains RICO.

There you go.

 

[The_Raganork]

Because the movie has realistic police/crime elements. It explains extradition policies, it explains RICO.

Then it has some bullet scanning thing that makes absolutely no sense (you get finger prints on bullet casings, not the actual bullet itself) and it blows all that realistic police proceedural elements out of the water. It's also a plot device that denies some real detective work by Batman being shown.

I have to admit I don't quite get your problem with this distinction.

All I can say is:

It's taking elements from our world and a world we don't exist. It may seem contradictory to you because our world doesn't work in such away but, TDK is on Earth-2 (for lack of a better name) these concepts we have can exist and concepts from Earth-75; a more fantastical Earth, are taken as well.

When combined; you have something new. It would arguably let people from our world feel comfort in familiar aspects and take wonder in aspects unfamiliar and almost impossible.

 

[hatebox]

It's also a plot device that denies some real detective work by Batman being shown.

But him using it WAS detective work, however ridiculous the contraption itself was.

I bet most people watching didn't even understand exactly what mystery Bruce had just solved, but that's irrelevant - they understood that Bruce was intelligent, dilligent and willing enough to solve things the police couldn't.

 

[DieSmiling]

Because the movie has realistic police/crime elements. It explains extradition policies, it explains RICO.

Then it has some bullet scanning thing that makes absolutely no sense (you get finger prints on bullet casings, not the actual bullet itself) and it blows all that realistic police proceedural elements out of the water. It's also a plot device that denies some real detective work by Batman being shown.

But its a BATMAN movie that has realistic police/crime elements. It's Batman! A billionaire vigilante who dresses like a Bat, and drives a stealth tank.

It just makes no sense whatsoever that a grappling gun, a glider cape, a stealth tank, tiny little grenade balls, etc. are okay but the bullet scanner is not. ****, I bet the bullet scanner is closer to existence than half the technology he uses in the two movies.

You already said you have no problem with the microwave emitter (the most ridiculous technology in either movie, by far) because TDK took itself more seriously than BB, but the only evidence you offer to support this is the casual references to China's extradition policy and the RICO act, as if these change everything and make the movie a clear attempt by Nolan to go "all realistic" in the sequel.

IMO, you're picking and choosing evidence to fit your argument.

 

[The_Raganork]

But him using it WAS detective work, however ridiculous the contraption itself was.

I bet most people watching didn't even understand exactly what mystery Bruce had just solved, but that's irrelevant - they understood that Bruce was intelligent, dilligent and willing enough to solve things the police couldn't.

I admit, I didn't really get it til the 3rd time I saw the film. granted it was all on the same day...but still..

 

[Boom]

I honestly like the "real world meets fantasy" approach to Batman.

I just wished that some of the realistic aspects in Nolan's films were more fantastic, and some of the fantastic aspects were more realistic.

 

[The Morningstar]

I have to admit I don't quite get your problem with this distinction.

All I can say is:

It's taking elements from our world and a world we don't exist. It may seem contradictory to you because our world doesn't work in such away but, TDK is on Earth-2 (for lack of a better name) these concepts we have can exist and concepts from Earth-75; a more fantastical Earth, are taken as well.

When combined; you have something new. It would arguably let people from our world feel comfort in familiar aspects and take wonder in aspects unfamiliar and almost impossible.

Let me put it like this.

The sonar thing? I can buy it in TDKs world. Because although ridiculous, it has a sense of logic. It's like a submarines sonar, fed into Batmans lenses and the computer screen. The way it is explained and demonstrated makes sense in TDKs world.

The bullet scan thing though? It has no logic. It's not only ridiculous, it's just frickin stupid. It makes no sense what so ever, in a fictional world or in the real world.

 

[The_Raganork]

Let me put it like this.

The sonar thing? I can buy it in TDKs world. Because although ridiculous, it has a sense of logic. It's like a submarines sonar, fed into Batmans lenses and the computer screen. The way it is explained and demonstrated makes sense in TDKs world.

The bullet scan thing though? It has no logic. It's not only ridiculous, it's just frickin stupid. It makes no sense what so ever, in a fictional world or in the real world.

lolwut?

I get what you're saying. But how can something not make sense in a fictional world?

I admit; it confuses me and seems convoluted but, I thought it more interesting that the video game sequence.

 

[The Morningstar]

But its a BATMAN movie that has realistic police/crime elements. It's Batman! A billionaire vigilante who dresses like a Bat, and drives a stealth tank.

It just makes no sense whatsoever that a grappling gun, a glider cape, a stealth tank, tiny little grenade balls, etc. are okay but the bullet scanner is not. ****, I bet the bullet scanner is closer to existence than half the technology he uses in the two movies.

You already said you have no problem with the microwave emitter (the most ridiculous technology in either movie, by far) because TDK took itself more seriously than BB, but the only evidence you offer to support this is the casual references to China's extradition policy and the RICO act, as if these change everything and make the movie a clear attempt by Nolan to go "all realistic" in the sequel.

IMO, you're picking and choosing evidence to fit your argument.

Huh? I thought the Microwave Emitter was stupid too. But it still had a sorta logic. It evaporates water into steam. Ok, easy to understand.

The bullet scanning thing? Gets thumb prints off shattered bullets? WHEN THUMBS DO NOT COME INTO CONTACT WITH THE BULLET ITSELF?

No, that's just plain ******ed, even in the fictional world of TDK. Unless bullets don't have casings in TDK, which I doubt.

To me, it's just a massive contradiction of the rules and logic established. Some people may find it a nit pick. But it just leaps out at me everytime i've watched it. Maybe if it was in Burton's Bat movies, it wouldn't.

 

[The Morningstar]

lolwut?

I get what you're saying. But how can something not make sense in a fictional world?

I admit; it confuses me and seems convoluted but, I thought it more interesting that the video game sequence.

Because even in a fictional world bullets have bullet casings.

 

[The_Raganork]

It really seems to be such a minute thing to get caught up on.

 

[DieSmiling]

Huh? I thought the Microwave Emitter was stupid too. But it still had a sorta logic. It evaporates water into steam. Ok, easy to understand.

The bullet scanning thing? Gets thumb prints off shattered bullets? WHEN THUMBS DO NOT COME INTO CONTACT WITH THE BULLET ITSELF?

No, that's just plain ******ed, even in the fictional world of TDK.

They do when you load the bullets into the chamber. I'm pretty sure they even reference that in the movie.

The microwave emitter has way less logic. How on earth would something that emits microwaves that cause water to evaporate instantly not kill every living thing in the same vicinity? It would cause your face to melt off and your head to explode like the Nazis in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

 

[Gianakin_]

They do when you load the bullets into the chamber. I'm pretty sure they even reference that in the movie.

He explicitly says it, in the expositional fashion that Morningstar also hates with a fiery passion. No offense at all, Morningstar, I mean it!

 

[The Morningstar]

No seriously, your skin never comes into the contact with the bullet. The bullet is covered with a casing, that's what your skin comes into contact with. That's what makes it even more infuriating. They actually wrote that dialogue... when it's soooo utterly wrong.

So it begs the question, why didn't Bats just pick up the spent casings off of the floor?

And yea, you're right about the microwave emitter.

 

[Boom]

Both the micowave emitter and sonar device were stupid as hell.

 

[DieSmiling]

He explicitly says it, in the expositional fashion that Morningstar also hates with a fiery passion. No offense at all, Morningstar, I mean it!

LOL. I understand the complaint about the expositional dialogue (even though frankly, not only does it not bother me, but I love it in parts). But this specific nitpick just doesn't resonate with me at all.

 

[DieSmiling]

No seriously, your skin never comes into the contact with the bullet. The bullet is covered with a casing, that's what your skin comes into contact with. That's what makes it even more infuriating. They actually wrote that dialogue... when it's soooo utterly wrong.

So it begs the question, why didn't Bats just pick up the spent casings off of the floor?

And yea, you're right about the microwave emitter.

No, your finger could come in contact with the bullet. Only part of it is covered with the casing.

Here:

"1" in the diagram is the bullet itself. As you can see, it's possible to have touched it.

Regardless, I agree the technology is preposterous, I just can't believe THIS is what you're hung up on.

 

[TDK010]

Now that would have been cool but we would not have had a sequel had it turned out like Raiders did. Alfred would have been the only survivor lol! "Quite so sir"

 

[The Morningstar]

No, your finger could come in contact with the bullet. Only part of it is covered with the casing.

Here:

"1" in the diagram is the bullet itself. As you can see, it's possible to have touched it.

Regardless, I agree the technology is preposterous, I just can't believe THIS is what you're hung up on.

The film shows that the thumb print is on the main body of the bullet.

Again, I know it's a nit pick. But it annoys me so much because TDK has this pretense of being a serious crime thriller, but it gets something fundamentally wrong with the crime elements of the movie. It's nothing to do with the technology being absurd, it's the actual CSI/police proceedural element that the movie prides itself on being completely stupid.

See, if Batman picked up the bullet casing and used some ridiculous gadget to get finger prints off of it? I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[DieSmiling]

Well, obviously I'm not going to change your mind, but it clearly doesn't take itself too seriously as a procedural police drama when the police Lt. has his men stand down so a man in a bat costume can get first access to the scene. Something tells me that's against procedure.

 

[The_Raganork]

The film shows that the thumb print is on the main body of the bullet.

Again, I know it's a nit pick. But it annoys me so much because TDK has this pretense of being a serious crime thriller, but it gets something fundamentally wrong with the crime elements of the movie. It's nothing to do with the technology being absurd, it's the actual CSI/police proceedural element that the movie prides itself on being completely stupid.

See, if Batman picked up the bullet casing and used some ridiculous gadget to get finger prints off of it? I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Isn't that exactly what he did?

 

[Bat-Mite]

I acutally really like Begins. Because I feel it doesn't sacrifice fun and entertainment in favour of some pretense at being all serious and sending socio-political messages. TDK, to me, just seems to be trying too hard.

Begins didn't have any magical characters. There's really very little you could do to explain the Joker's success in TDK unless you put a supernatural slant on it. And that's very much from the comics, like how the Joker routinely survives situations that should have been fatal to him. Even Jonathan Nolan compared TDK's Joker to trickster deities and said he could easily see the Joker just appearing out of thin air on that street corner in the opening of the film. Combine that with the movie's depiction of Two-Face and things like Batman and Rachel falling onto a car without a scratch, and the argument could easily be made that TDK is less pretentious than even Begins is. These rules that TDK is supposedly breaking only exist in your mind. It never sets out to be pretentious... if it did, we wouldn't have a batmobile that tells Batman "Goodbye!" right before it self-destructs, or a batpod that's able to completely flip over a semi truck.

 

[hatebox]

I'm not sure one has to interpret the Joker as being even slightly supernatural - it's enough assume that Gotham is just that corrupt and he had enough minions that a mastermind like that could get away with it. Of course it pushes the boundaries of believability, but for the sake of the narrative it'll do.

I think it's easy to underestimate just how much of an influence the James Bond universe was on Nolan's Bat films too - basically our world but with objects and actions that push the limits further. The batpod doing a 180 on the wall is evidence alone that Nolan's capable of seeing the funny/absurd side of it all.