The Dark Knight Rises Should "Realism" be lightened up a bit?

[Mr. Earle]

I think we have established countless number of times now that both of Nolan's films are very much like the comics. They are like Year One, The Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum, Broken City, the innumerable issues of Detective Comics that have no likes of mythical gods or scientific experiments gone awry...gritty, grounded, unflashy crime dramas rather tales of superheroic extravagance.

And yet those comics dont confine Batman in a realistic universe. The following week Batman could be fighting aliens for all we know. In the Nolanverse however? NO.
And that is why the Nolanverse can only go for one or two more movies before it gets stale. I personally had my fill of realism, mob and grittyness. Thank god Morrison is writing Batman in the comics and makes up for all this seriousness and realism.

 

[Laderlappen]

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are not realistic.

 

[returntovoid]

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are not realistic.

I think The Dark Knight is not realistic just like all normal films but as a comic book film, it's too realistic.

I think Batman Begins was not realistic for a film because it was a comic book film.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I think The Dark Knight is not realistic just like all normal films but as a comic book film, it's too realistic.

I think Batman Begins was not realistic for a film because it was a comic book film.

Well said.

 

[The Joker]

Those comics you are mentioning are not exactly comics but they are graphic novels but even if some of them were originally released as individual issues and later TPB, it can't be denied that they paved way for the graphic novel format in terms of style/tone. So, they are either un-conventional comics or not in the mainstream continuity.

Of course they're comics. So what if they're graphic novels, or comic books that set the tone for graphic novels? And which one is not in mainstream continuity? Killing Joke is. Year One is. Broken City is. Not 100% sure if Arkham Asylum is, but I know the whole backstory with Armadeus Arkham in it is in continuity.

Year One was a huge influence on Begins, and you're always going on about how much you love that.

 

[batman_1989_]

I think we have established countless number of times now that both of Nolan's films are very much like the comics. They are like Year One, The Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum, Broken City, the innumerable issues of Detective Comics that have no likes of mythical gods or scientific experiments gone awry...gritty, grounded, unflashy crime dramas rather tales of superheroic extravagance.

The Dark Knight is NOTHING like Arkham Asylum

 

[jmc]

Why cant a Batman film be like the comics and have deep themes and messages for real life?

Because it's film and directors have the right to interpret the characters in their own way. The comics are there as a guide, not gospel. If people want what's in the comic, stick to the comic where they'll be less likely to be disappointed.

 

[returntovoid]

Year One was a huge influence on Begins, and you're always going on about how much you love that.

I'm aware that Year One was a huge influence on Begins but I found Year One to be boring and I thought Begins improved on elements taken from that far more, IMO.

 

[The Joker]

I'm aware that Year One was a huge influence on Begins but I found Year One to be boring and I thought Begins improved on elements taken from that far more, IMO.

Well then it's down to your personal preference, man. You were talking like it was wrong to use these comics and graphic novels as influences. And making the absurd claim that they're not in continuity.

Especially the Killing Joke. Barbara Gordon has not been out of that wheelchair since.

 

[returntovoid]

If people want what's in the comic, stick to the comic where they'll be less likely to be disappointed.

Yeah, but seeing something iconic from the comics to come to life is just a exciting thing to imagine and no, I don't want it to be 100% comic accurate story but just true to the spirit of the character and his world, something like BTAS.

 

[returntovoid]

Well then it's down to your personal preference, man.

Exactly, it is down to personal preference.

You were talking like it was wrong to use these comics and graphic novels as influences.

Nothing wrong with the use of them, there are many different interpretations of Batman in his 70+ Year history.

And making the absurd claim that they're not in continuity.

I didn't say they were all not in continuity but I meant that some of them are in continuity although not your typical comics and some of them are not in continuity.

 

[jmc]

Every comic/graphic novel of Batman is a valid source of reference for film regardless of whether it's in continuity or not, regardless of whether it's well received or not, regardless of how many liberties are taken. In fact I'd go so far as to say you can never have things on film be like they are in the comics because there's such a range of different interpretations within the comics to draw inspiration from, both in and out of continuity. Batman is a 70 year mythology where you can pick and choose what works for the story on film, it's not like something like Watchmen.

 

[Crook]

I think The Dark Knight is not realistic just like all normal films but as a comic book film, it's too realistic.

I think Batman Begins was not realistic for a film because it was a comic book film.

I will never understand this critique on TDK. It was by far the most larger-than-life comic book film yet. Only difference is it felt real to us because of it's on-set locations and deep narrative/characters. That is a completely different approach than actually toning down the material, as say, Unbreakable.

 

[Mr. Earle]

When did I say Iron Man had nothing better than TDK? Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I said that all things considered, TDK was an overall superior film than Iron Man.

You said:

Whatever floats your boat. Facts of the matter are these - TDK was more successful, more critically acclaimed, more influential and simply an all-round better made movie than Iron Man all things considered.

Didnt you mean that?

How is Revenge of the Fallen an appropriate example? I am not talking about box office numbers equating quality, I am talking about the relevance of your criteria to success.

I dont know if my suggestions would make the film more successful. Who cares anyway? I want a better film for me.

I don't disagree with you for wanting better fight scenes. I disagree with you over the level of emphasis you place on them and their impact on the overall quality of the film. As for the visuals, it has been stated with sufficient proof that both of Nolan's Batman films had better cinematography than Iron Man, the film you've been championing as an example.

I dont know all the details about cinematography so i am probably a bad judge. Ironman wasnt spectacular, but IM2 looks like its going to be. I dont want Bay-esque direction, i dont want glitzy colours and sets, but i do want something better than TDK.

Example:
TDK: Batman standing on the Sears Towers. We cant see anything else because ST is so damn tall. Batman is standing still in his ironman-esque suit.

My proposal inspired by BTAS and comics scenes: Batman is standing on a more interesting building, which is barely taller than the others around it. He is wearing the comics batsuit (anything but the TDK atrocity). He is crouching at the edge staring at the abyss below, with his cape billowing and covering most of him. His white eyes shine in the darkness. The shot starts with us looking up to him and slowly the camera rises to his level while it also rotates giving us a good view of GOTHAM (not Chicago) from above. The camera sets over his back and its like we re standing behind him, seeing what he sees, hearing what he hears. He then jumps forward and opens his glider, gliding between skyscrapers... etc....

With my zero skills here's what i managed after a thousand hours in MS Paint:

Now compare this to the Sears Towers scene.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Because it's film and directors have the right to interpret the characters in their own way. The comics are there as a guide, not gospel. If people want what's in the comic, stick to the comic where they'll be less likely to be disappointed.

I'm aware of that, but how about an interpretation that doesnt discard 90% of the mythos because it grants it unrealistic or cheesy?

Its one thing to refrain from adapting the Mandarin because he is cheesy, and another what Nolan is doing.

I'm aware that Year One was a huge influence on Begins but I found Year One to be boring and I thought Begins improved on elements taken from that far more, IMO.

Agreed 100%. That and focusing on Bruce/Batman instead of Gordon's problems. Not that i dont care about him...

Yeah, but seeing something iconic from the comics to come to life is just a exciting thing to imagine and no, I don't want it to be 100% comic accurate story but just true to the spirit of the character and his world, something like BTAS.

Agreed 100%!

I will never understand this critique on TDK. It was by far the most larger-than-life comic book film yet. Only difference is it felt real to us because of it's on-set locations and deep narrative/characters. That is a completely different approach than actually toning down the material, as say, Unbreakable.

Larger than life? Sure, but only so much. It had a large scope and rather unrealistic plot, but Begins had a more comic booky feel to it, and lets not even compare TDK to the comics.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

"Arkham Asylum" is realistic?

 

[returntovoid]

"Arkham Asylum" is realistic?

I doubt it is, it's really nightmarish plus the art is twisted, more out of this world than Bob Kane/Dick Sprang cartoony style and obviously the Neal Adams photo-realistic art style. Unrealistic villains like Clayface and Killer Croc are in it.

 

[The Joker]

Nothing wrong with the use of them, there are many different interpretations of Batman in his 70+ Year history.

And how many interpretations of him do you want crammed into ONE movie?

I didn't say they were all not in continuity but I meant that some of them are in continuity although not your typical comics and some of them are not in continuity.

And I say again, which of them were not in continuity? And does it have to be in continuity to be work?

Burton's Batman is the murderous Batman of the late 30's/early 40's. That's not in continuity now, because the modern Batman never killed people.

Does this taint the Burton movies for you?

I will never understand this critique on TDK. It was by far the most larger-than-life comic book film yet. Only difference is it felt real to us because of it's on-set locations and deep narrative/characters. That is a completely different approach than actually toning down the material, as say, Unbreakable.

Exactly

 

[Travesty]

I will never understand this critique on TDK. It was by far the most larger-than-life comic book film yet. Only difference is it felt real to us because of it's on-set locations and deep narrative/characters. That is a completely different approach than actually toning down the material, as say, Unbreakable.

I didn't like it for many reasons, but I wouldn't use the term "larger then life". I actually felt that Begins felt "larger" in scope then TDK. I hated the pacing, the lighting, the messy story line that doesn't really make sense, how they excluded a lot of iconic Batman scenes, etc. I have a LOT of issues with TDK, other then how "realistic" it felt.

 

[TheBatman072]

Don't we already have a thread like this?

Every single goddamn one?

 

[El Payaso]

Can't wait for zebra Batman!

 

[Travesty]

Don't we already have a thread like this?

Every single goddamn one?

LOL. So you're complaining about people who complain about TDK?

 

[TheBatman072]

Edit

 

[TheBatman072]

And what does this have to do with TDK sequel spoilers?

Nothing, from the looks of it. Because you can't complain about something that hasn't happened yet.

Although I wouldn't put it past you people.

 

[Travesty]

And what does this have to do with TDK sequel spoilers?

Nothing, from the looks of it. Because you can't complain about something that hasn't happened yet.

Although I wouldn't put it past you people.

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