Sequels SHOULD Singer even return to the X-Men franchise?

[Deaths Head II]

He got knocked out when he was shot in the head in X2. He was unconscious, but the bullet didn't penetrate his skull. If he has any control over his healing ability, and it appears he has some...he's not going to be controlling it while unconscious. He woke up when the wound healed, indicating that he also regained consciousness at that point, or shortly before it.

Like I said, X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Two bullets to the head after he got out of the tank. All Wolverine did was get knocked back and then he made a mean face.

There is no consitancy for Wolverine's healing except in X1 and X2 because those have the same creative team behind them. Ratner boosted Wolverine's healing so he could heal being ripped to shreds instantlyand Hood sped it up to the point that he regular bullets don't even phase him. Singer clearly showed Wolverine needs to wait a bit before healing in both X1 and X2 and he still hurts like a regular person.

 

[X-Maniac]

He sure reacted fairly slowly to being shot in the head in X2. Guess that wasn't a big enough injury.

I agree with Mad One that they made it up after the fact.

It's funny that she said that in the Wolverine commentary because in that film he took two bullets to the head from Agent Zero and all it did was annoy him. Compare that to the one he took in X2 that knocked him out.

The one in X2 knocked him out because, let's face it, they wanted to showcase Pyro's powers and then Rogue's absorption of those powers. His being knocked out was a plot point, not a carefully considered scientific evaluation of his powers.

Similarly, he was knocked out in X1 (by Sabretooth clobbering him with a branch) so he could wake up in the mansion and not know where the hell he was. Plot device, not science.

But notice how he and Deathstrike heal immediately from vicious blows to their vital organs in the fight at Alkali Lake. They don't pass out or run off to recover, they just carry on fighting.

It could be argued that his adrenaline levels when he rose raging from the tank in Wolverine were enough to stop him being knocked out.

But it's generally to do with storytelling needs. I did like Lauren's explanation though, it would make sense that a massive assault might make his immune system go into overdrive. Whether you accept it is up to you but it does have a kind of logic to it.

 

[Mad Ones]

Maybe he learned to control it better or something.

The whole movie was just a bunch of "maybes."

 

[Deaths Head II]

The one in X2 knocked him out because, let's face it, they wanted to showcase Pyro's powers and then Rogue's absorption of those powers. His being knocked out was a plot point, not a carefully considered scientific evaluation of his powers.

Similarly, he was knocked out in X1 (by Sabretooth clobbering him with a branch) so he could wake up in the mansion and not know where the hell he was. Plot device, not science.

But notice how he and Deathstrike heal immediately from vicious blows to their vital organs in the fight at Alkali Lake. They don't pass out or run off to recover, they just carry on fighting.

It could be argued that his adrenaline levels when he rose raging from the tank in Wolverine were enough to stop him being knocked out.

You missed in X1 when Wolverine stabbed himself in the chest to free himself from Magneto's restraints. He didn't recover instantly and there was no reason to show that for the sake of plot convenience. The fact Singer did that suggests it was not plot convenience during the fight in the snow and the battle with the police. With Singer it felt like he wanted to show that Wolverine was still vulnerable despite the fact he could heal. Even during the battle with Deathstrike (where they probably stayed awake due to adrenaline), both fighters didn't heal from the wounds instantly and you could tell Wolverine was in serious pain. Unlike all of his fights in Wolverine after he got his adamantium.

Singer had Wolverine's healing factor be slow and he emphasized the fact Wolverine's was still vulnerable. Ratner and Hood made him into an unkillable machine that feels no pain.

 

[X-Maniac]

You missed in X1 when Wolverine stabbed himself in the chest to free himself from Magneto's restraints. He didn't recover instantly and there was no reason to show that for the sake of plot convenience. The fact Singer did that suggests it was not plot convenience during the fight in the snow and the battle with the police. With Singer it felt like he wanted to show that Wolverine was still vulnerable despite the fact he could heal. Even during the battle with Deathstrike (where they probably stayed awake due to adrenaline), both fighters didn't heal from the wounds instantly and you could tell Wolverine was in serious pain. Unlike all of his fights in Wolverine after he got his adamantium.

Singer had Wolverine's healing factor be slow and he emphasized the fact Wolverine's was still vulnerable. Ratner and Hood made him into an unkillable machine that feels no pain.

I wouldn't say he was that that invulnerable. He was shown in pain (and crying out in pain) in X3 and Wolverine, and his gashes were shown healing in Wolverine too.

Singer was more restrained with all the X-Men's powers, for sure, but that's why we waited until a third movie for Storm to fly and for Iceman to ice up.

 

[danoyse]

X1 also had Wolverine's healing powers rewind themselves when he gave up his powers to save Rogue, which I remember quite a few people complained that wasn't possible - and we're going to assume he didn't lose his powers completely, since the metal on his skeleton would have killed him if his healing factor was gone.

And seriously - he got knocked out a lot in X1.

I've noticed it in the comics too, one minute he's getting to shot to hell and he walks away fine, the next he's getting clocked in the head and he's out for hours. Sometimes they can sedate him, sometimes they can't. It's works however it most conveniently works to whatever the story is.

I always assumed in Wolverine that it was the adrenaline that kept him going when Zero shot him coming out of the tank. He definitely was receptive to pain in that film - particularly in the first fight with Victor, the Weapon X scene, and again when Stryker was shooting him, he was definitely in pain when that was happening.

 

[The Guard]

Like I said, X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Two bullets to the head after he got out of the tank. All Wolverine did was get knocked back and then he made a mean face.

There is no consitancy for Wolverine's healing except in X1 and X2 because those have the same creative team behind them. Ratner boosted Wolverine's healing so he could heal being ripped to shreds instantlyand Hood sped it up to the point that he regular bullets don't even phase him. Singer clearly showed Wolverine needs to wait a bit before healing in both X1 and X2 and he still hurts like a regular person.

I could honestly care less about what ORIGINS showed, as that film was so arbitary with so many elements it's not funny.

There's never going to be a ton of "consistency" from film to film, because I would imagine writers don't want redundant injuries to Wolverine. They want something new every time he gets hurt.

That said...

In X-MEN: ORIGINS, he's two things: Younger, and full of adrenaline. That, and the bullets in the 70's and 80's didn't, as is my understanding, do the damage and penetrate like modern ones do. It's entirely possible the bullet never even made a significant impact on his adamantium skull in X-MEN: ORIGINS, and that the one in X2 did. Stryker's bullets, by contrast, are obviously are made of adamantium. They hit him hard enough he ends up with amnesia.

The one in X2 knocked him out because, let's face it, they wanted to showcase Pyro's powers and then Rogue's absorption of those powers. His being knocked out was a plot point, not a carefully considered scientific evaluation of his powers.

Story reasons or not...he got shot in the head. Being knocked out makes perfect sense in that circumstance for Wolverine. Now, that is not to say that every time you are hit in the head, you will get knocked out.

Similarly, he was knocked out in X1 (by Sabretooth clobbering him with a branch) so he could wake up in the mansion and not know where the hell he was. Plot device, not science.

He got hit in the face by Sabertooth with what appeared to be a small tree or a pretty sizeable branch, though, not you or I. And he flew quite a distance to boot, and landed on the hood of his camper.

But it's generally to do with storytelling needs. I did like Lauren's explanation though, it would make sense that a massive assault might make his immune system go into overdrive. Whether you accept it is up to you but it does have a kind of logic to it.

Definitely. Especially for a body trained to heal itself over the years.

When conscious, he always heals pretty fast in all three films.

-His wounds from when his claws come out heal almost INSTANTLY, even the first time we see it happen.

-He gets knocked out when he flies through a windshield and then flies about a hundred feet, skidding several more, apparently being knocked out. When he wakes up (rather quickly), his massive forehead gash, once it starts healing and he focuses, takes like five or six seconds to heal, despite the fact that he's apparently somewhat groggy and unfocused.

-He gets hit in the face with a branch by Sabertooth and send another hundred feet. I would imagine the second major blow to the head (third if you count hitting the camper's hood) in the span of what, five minutes, could take one a while to wake up from.

-I'm reasonably certain that Wolverine falls down after freeing himself from his restraints because he's stabbed himself through the heart in order to do so. That, and he's clearly also playing possum after a certain point.

You missed in X1 when Wolverine stabbed himself in the chest to free himself from Magneto's restraints. He didn't recover instantly and there was no reason to show that for the sake of plot convenience. The fact Singer did that suggests it was not plot convenience during the fight in the snow and the battle with the police. With Singer it felt like he wanted to show that Wolverine was still vulnerable despite the fact he could heal. Even during the battle with Deathstrike (where they probably stayed awake due to adrenaline), both fighters didn't heal from the wounds instantly and you could tell Wolverine was in serious pain. Unlike all of his fights in Wolverine after he got his adamantium.

But notice how he and Deathstrike heal immediately from vicious blows to their vital organs in the fight at Alkali Lake. They don't pass out or run off to recover, they just carry on fighting.

Wolverine heals about as quickly in the fight with Deathstrike as he had at any point up until then. They carry on fighting because they are in a fight. One doesn't stop fighting because one is wounded in a fight to the death, or one dies.

Singer had Wolverine's healing factor be slow and he emphasized the fact Wolverine's was still vulnerable. Ratner and Hood made him into an unkillable machine that feels no pain.
Feels no pain? He's grimacing like hell while he pulls out Spike's spikes. And he's certainly not "shrugging off' what Dark Phoenix does to him in the least.

Wolverines healing factor wasn't that slow in Singer's films. And he was also vulnerable in X2 and X3. In X3, as you'll remember, he fell out of a tree after Magneto sent him crashing through the woods, and was down for the count.

There's always going to be some difference in how long it takes him to deal, but I really don't think there's that big a consistency issue over the three, even four films. He shows pain in all of them, and the healing times really don't vary that much when he's aware of what he's trying to do with them. Only when he's unconscious, near death, or groggy.

 

[Deaths Head II]

Singer was more restrained with all the X-Men's powers, for sure, but that's why we waited until a third movie for Storm to fly and for Iceman to ice up.

The difference is that Wolverine originally started out with a restrained healing factor while Storm and Iceman in the films were lacking abilities they had since their earliest appearances in the comics. I also think Wolverine is a million times more interesting with a weaker healing factor since he doesn't rely on it instead of his skills and training. Wolverine's healing factor is one thing I think Singer got 100% right.

By the way, Storm flew in the very first movie when she flew up the elevator shaft.

 

[gridlockd]

The difference is that Wolverine originally started out with a restrained healing factor while Storm and Iceman in the films were lacking abilities they had since their earliest appearances in the comics. I also think Wolverine is a million times more interesting with a weaker healing factor since he doesn't rely on it instead of his skills and training. Wolverine's healing factor is one thing I think Singer got 100% right.

By the way, Storm flew in the very first movie when she flew up the elevator shaft.

Kinda more like she floated. Or levitated. It was a pretty lame example of the power she has.

That's what I liked about 3, I thought they seemed appropriately powerful. Like Magneto seemed to hover around a lot more. If you could hover, would you ever walk?

 

[Deaths Head II]

Kinda more like she floated. Or levitated. It was a pretty lame example of the power she has.

That's what I liked about 3, I thought they seemed appropriately powerful. Like Magneto seemed to hover around a lot more. If you could hover, would you ever walk?

No, it was flying. I thought it was a good way to show off her flying for the first time since she was flying to fulfill a practical reason.

 

[gridlockd]

No, it was flying. I thought it was a good way to show off her flying for the first time since she was flying to fulfill a practical reason.

C'mon, it wasn't quality flying. She floated up an elvator shaft. Wasnt like, faster than a speeding bullet or anything.

Which is fine, they didn't have the budget to do justice to Storms powers. But in that case, they shoulda saved Storm for a sequel. She didn't need to be in the first one. They could have later gone to Africa and found a woman being worshipped as a goddess. Done Storm right.

Ever read the Andrew Kevin Walker script? It was great but no Storm.

 

[The Guard]

Flying is flying. X3's flying from Storm was a lot more impressive.

 

[EnDz0n3]

So she flew.

But ask a Storm fan...was that really Storm? or just Halle Berry flying around and picking fights with every single one of the characters?

 

[Deaths Head II]

I never really cared that much about the upscaling of Storm's powers in X3 because I was more concerned with the fact that they butchered her character. Storm's flashy effects in X3 were more impressive but in X1 she acted more like Storm from the comics. X3 Storm was just Halle Berry with white hair and she was very unlikable as a character to me. I would rather have "levitating" Storm from X1 then X3's "Storm".

 

[gridlockd]

I never really cared that much about the upscaling of Storm's powers in X3 because I was more concerned with the fact that they butchered her character. Storm's flashy effects in X3 were more impressive but in X1 she acted more like Storm from the comics. X3 Storm was just Halle Berry with white hair and she was very unlikable as a character to me. I would rather have "levitating" Storm from X1 then X3's "Storm".

As far as powers and character, I didn't see much difference from storm in 1 and 3. In 1 she probably had more screen time. But she used it to tell us what happens when a toad gets struck by lightning, so.... (I don't remember Storm from the comics having an incredibly lame sense of humor)

As a huge fan of Storm and Xmen in general, one of the most dissappointing movie-going experiences of my life was the introduction of Scott and Storm in X-Men 1. There they are. In the road. Just standing there. No build up. No excitment. Just standing there. Ok, Storm was making it snow but that's not real dynamic.
They could have been introduced individually and with a lot more style.

Blame X3 all you want but Storm was botched from the beginning. I like Halle but she was miscast. It was the role Angella Bassett was born to play. But Singer, as someone else said in this thread, wanted young homogenized hotties.

 

[Deaths Head II]

As far as powers and character, I didn't see much difference from storm in 1 and 3. In 1 she probably had more screen time. But she used it to tell us what happens when a toad gets struck by lightning, so.... (I don't remember Storm from the comics having an incredibly lame sense of humor)

I don't know how you can not tell the difference between Storm in X1 and X3. Go watch Storm's scene with Senator Kelly before he dies and compare it with any scene with Storm in X3. Storm in X3 has no sense of compassion, is more abrasive, and she doesn't even have an african accent. Halle Berry wasn't the best choice for Storm but X1 was Halle Berry trying to play Storm (whether she did it well was another matter) while X3 was was just Halle Berry playing herself.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I don't know about Storm's scene with Senator Kelly in X-men being a plus for the Storm character in the X-men movies, but you are totally right in that atleast in X-men Halle tried to play a character other than Halle Berry. Like I said in X3, it was just Halle Berry picking fights with anyone who disagrees with her.

I'm one of Singer's greatest supporters but I think he made the wrong decision in telling Halle to just drop the accent in X2.

Added: i think they should have included Storm's talk with Rogue in the classroom scene from X-men.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The writers' previous films really have no bearing on the content of X3. Don't create straw arguments. Nevermind that even their crappy other films had proper structure, which tends to suggest that THE LAST STAND would have as well, and that they would not just have "forgotten" how to write structure and wrap up their main two characters' arcs in the last scene of the biggest movie they've ever written.

So...Wolverine doing what he's always done...healing from wounds...is suddenly godlike? By the way. He healed that quickly in the beginning of X3, in the Danger Room, too.

Sorry Guard, but no, not in the previous 90 mins of X3 nor the whole of X1 and X2 did he heal that fast, at the end it was literally instant, and that wasnt the case for the rest of trilogy, as OTHERS have pointed out.

And the writers previous movies do have bearing, because they show they are poor writers, which they have continued to prove since X3.

You've been told in detail why it's clear that Dark Phoenix is holding back. Stop just thinking "I hate X3" and ignoring the obvious.

I havent been told at all, I've been given your opinion stated as fact, its your opinion get over it and we'll have an easier time, you see one thing, me and countless others see what I have said, get over it.

Look how FAST Dark Phoenix vaporizes the soldiers, almost instantly. The buildings. The vehicles.

But she suddenly she's just able to vaporize Logan's skin slowly? In little pieces?

And you think she's at full power, and not holding back? Are you KIDDING me?

Are you kidding me, I am not judging anything with hate, I am judging what I have been presented with on screen. She never showed previously in the movie that she could vaporise whole areas and leave one tiny blip alone, so I dont think she does in this scene either, and as I have pointed out NUMEROUS times, you see her visibly straining just before she comes closest to vaporising him, but Wolverine suddenly gets a healing factor like God.

She is OBVIOUSLY not operating at full power while attacking Wolverine. Ergo...she is, in fact, either holding back or weakening. Either one of these means one thing: JEAN IS FIGHTING FOR CONTROL.

From what I have seen in the movie she is going at Logan with all she has, and he takes it, why else would she ask "You would die for them?" when he gets to her, he just risked his life going against an unleashed Pheonix, THATS why she asks.

You're not GOING to see a major change in CHARACTER until the very end. Dark Phoenix is in control until then, at least in some control, because again, suddenly she's struggling to blow apart a person. But you do see Dark Phoenix struggling as the scene progresses. Now, why do you think Dark Phoenix would ever struggle? To destroy some skin? Really? You think it just takes THAT much effort for her to destroy a few patches of skin, when she was vaporizing dozens of people just moments before?

Or you think perhaps, just perhaps, it takes that much effort because Jean, who is still there, doesn't want Dark Phoenix to blow Logan to pieces, or to strip his skeleton and flesh from the feet up as she did to everyone else in the area?

I think its a poorly written scene from poor writers directed poorly by a poor director, simple as.

I'll be honest...I hardly even know what this sentence means. It just sounds like you being bitter. Not only because you just...sound bitter, but because you're being illogical, and apparently don't understand what a Deux Ex Machina actually is.

Wolverine's healing abilities aren't a Deux Ex Machine, because they aren't new. They've been there since the beginning of the franchise. Him healing quickly isn't new either. And reaching someone emotionally, especially when an emotional arc exists within the film and previous films between two characters isn't a Deaux Ex Machina element, either. A Deux Ex Machina is something that appears out of the blue, without previously having been set up as an important element in a story. You can't say that about Wolverine's healing ability, or his connection to Jean/Dark Phoenix.

Right after she opens up his chest, etc, that's the biggest moment of conflict you see from her. She sees he's still coming, and that he's not going to stop. And you're right, she starts visibly trembling, and there are flashes of recognition, etc. And this is the giveaway. She starts trembling. Not just her face, or head, but her whole form tenses up, and it starts actually looking like she has to exert some effort, where before she looked pretty damn relaxed and confident in what she was doing.

She's not trembling because it takes Dark Phoenix a ton of effort to destroy ****. That can't be it, because she HASN'T had to exert much effort before, as the film SHOWS you that. She's trembling because she's emotionally affected by what is happening. Frustrated. Curious. Whatever way you slice it, there is conflict there within Dark Phoenix.

And she's also, instead of ignoring him and what he's saying, as she was in the moments prior, registering everything he says, not just as Dark Phoenix, but deep down, as Jean. She takes less and less of him apart as he gets close to her. I.E, she is weakening. Now WHY would Dark Phoenix be weakening, I wonder?

Nevermind that the fact that Jean DOES come back essentially proves she was fighting Dark Phoenix. Or how else would she surface to begin with?



Not being perfectly executed does not make something "poor", either in execution or the writing of it. It just means it could have been handled better. A lot of things could be handled better.

My lord, this all just reeks of excuses, and you are calling me bitter, I think you are the bitter one because other people arent accepting your opinion as fact.

You even point out at one point that we dont see Jean until the end of the scene but then say there is OBVIOUDLY conflict, I mean, are you serious? All I will say is, if the conflict was so obvious, WHY are people having such a hard time seeing it?

The answer it simply because it isnt there.

What in God's name do you think she's visibly straining to do? Blow a few pieces of skin off someone?

You did see her disintigrating entire buildings, people and vehicle in moments, right?
So now she has trouble with skin cells?

You're looking right at it and not seeing it. You're just assuming that writers who developed a particular character arc throughout the entire film, instead of presenting the payoff to that arc, just decided to SUCK at structuring a story, because that's what you want to believe. It's kind of sad, really, because the logic of the moment is fairly obvious.

So obvious countless people, including people who liked the movie, point to that scene as a ridiculous power upgrade for Wolverine. I have pointed out countless times before I am simply commenting on what the movie gave us, and what I see is no conflict from DP, she is trying her damnest to blow Wolverine away, but cant, because he gets a computer game like upgrade because the writers could think of nothing but trying to make Wolverine look teh awesome! for the kids.

 

[gridlockd]

I don't know how you can not tell the difference between Storm in X1 and X3. Go watch Storm's scene with Senator Kelly before he dies and compare it with any scene with Storm in X3. Storm in X3 has no sense of compassion, is more abrasive, and she doesn't even have an african accent. Halle Berry wasn't the best choice for Storm but X1 was Halle Berry trying to play Storm (whether she did it well was another matter) while X3 was was just Halle Berry playing herself.

She gave up on the accent by X-Men 2. And she didn't do much of an accent in Xmen 1, IMO. If she did one, it barely registered. People hardly noticed when she stopped bothering. Really, despite the Oscar, she's not much of an actor. I like her but it's not because she's hugely talented.

And I don't know, she seemed to have compassion in X3 in her scenes with and about Xaiver. She gave the eulogy, didn't she? (Not sarcasm, I'm asking. I don't really remember.) Seemed compassionate to Angel when he was looking for a safe place for mutants. Singer didn't even give Collosus an accent for crying out loud.

I'm not saying you, but it seems like a lot of fans had their minds made up when they heard Ratner got the job directing X-Men 3.

And I was always annoyed with Singers decision to go with Matrix-ripp off black leather costumes. An X-men movie should have been trail blazing, not following popular trends. I understand not going with yellow spandex but it seems like there had to be a better compromise.

 

[Deaths Head II]

And I don't know, she seemed to have compassion in X3 in her scenes with and about Xaiver. She gave the eulogy, didn't she? (Not sarcasm, I'm asking. I don't really remember.) Seemed compassionate to Angel when he was looking for a safe place for mutants. Singer didn't even give Collosus an accent for crying out loud.

Singer probably gave up on accents after he saw how they turned out for Storm and Rogue.

Storm was rude to Rogue, heartless about Jean, and abrasive to Wolverine. She was okay for some scenes but most of the time I just wanted her to shut up.

I'm not saying you, but it seems like a lot of fans had their minds made up when they heard Ratner got the job directing X-Men 3.

I doubt it. Most people weren't optimistic but I remember when the trailers came out people felt like Ratner was trying to imitate Singer's style (and that's a good thing). Some people were wary but I doubt anyone made up their minds. I was actually worried it was going to be good because it looked so epic in the trailers and I didn't want to like it because I knew Cyclops was going to die. The movie itself resolved that issue thankfully.

And I was always annoyed with Singers decision to go with Matrix-ripp off black leather costumes. An X-men movie should have been trail blazing, not following popular trends. I understand not going with yellow spandex but it seems like there had to be a better compromise.

One thing it's easy to forget is that X-Men was the first super hero film of the modern generation. It was already taking a big risk. Most successful comic book films at the time had heroes wearing all black like Blade and the Crow. It was a time when super heroe filmshad to be wary of looking too much like super hero films and it was films like X-Men that got us to the point where we are now. The fact that you're saying the black leather means X-Men wasn't trailblazing is laughable to me because the fact X-Men was even made was trailblazing.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh at the fact that the same person that's correcting someone's very definition of Deus ex Machina, actually misspelled the word 4 times.

 

[The Guard]

But ask a Storm fan...was that really Storm? or just Halle Berry flying around and picking fights with every single one of the characters?

Hehe.

It was a watered down version of Storm, certainly, which is what the character had been since X-MEN. But it was less watered down than she was in previous films.

I never really cared that much about the upscaling of Storm's powers in X3 because I was more concerned with the fact that they butchered her character. Storm's flashy effects in X3 were more impressive but in X1 she acted more like Storm from the comics. X3 Storm was just Halle Berry with white hair and she was very unlikable as a character to me. I would rather have "levitating" Storm from X1 then X3's "Storm".

How did she act more like Storm from the comics in X-MEN? I mean, I suppose she tried to "act" like the character, with that awful, wavering accent, but Storm was very little like the Storm of the comics (beyond some of the uses of her powers, and maybe some of her warddrobe choices) in X-MEN.

I'm no fan of Halle, but I really feel like she was at her best in X3, especially as far as performance goes, and so was Storm's characterization, action potential, etc. Storm in X-MEN has been described as "mousy" by a lot of fans, and for good reason. She darn near was. She was much "stronger" and more confident in X3.

Blame X3 all you want but Storm was botched from the beginning. I like Halle but she was miscast. It was the role Angella Bassett was born to play. But Singer, as someone else said in this thread, wanted young homogenized hotties.

I believe Angela Basset actually turned down the role at some point, didn't she?

Sorry Guard, but no, not in the previous 90 mins of X3 nor the whole of X1 and X2 did he heal that fast, at the end it was literally instant, and that wasnt the case for the rest of trilogy, as OTHERS have pointed out.

Actually, as I have pointed out, but you have apparently ignored, yes, he did heal that fast at points in previous films, and in X3. His hand scars, for instance, heal almost INSTANTLY in all four films.

And watch how fast he heals after getting hit in the head in the Danger Room in X3.

I just went through X-MEN and X2 and watched his healing scenes yesterday. He heals slower when he's groggy or unconscious, but otherwise, his healing rate, while amped up a bit at the end of X3, is pretty consistent with previous films with a reasonable variance.

And the writers previous movies do have bearing, because they show they are poor writers, which they have continued to prove since X3.

Not going to go with this elementary school logic.

Their previous films and what they've done after X3 have no actual bearing on X3 as an individual work.

You're not judging what you've been presented on the screen at all, because you're clearly ignoring the sizeable difference in intensity between Dark Phoenix's attacks on Logan...and her attacks on everything else.

I've gone into detail about why I believe what I believe, while your arguments against my (and others now) reasoning for why Logan isn't just BLOWN AWAY in that scene amounts to something along the lines of "Nuh uh!"

Fair enough. Don't look for it. Don't believe/buy it. Don't enjoy the element that is in the movie, and was clearly meant to be in the movie.

From what I have seen in the movie she is going at Logan with all she has, and he takes it, why else would she ask "You would die for them?" when he gets to her, he just risked his life going against an unleashed Pheonix, THATS why she asks.

She asks because he's risking his life, period. Not because he's risking his life against all she has. She is not going at him with all she has. That is a silly statement on so many levels. We've SEEN what she's capable of, not only earlier in the film, but at the SAME TIME she's attacking Wolverine, and what she's throwing at him is barely a FRACTION of that power potential.

I mean, I get that you don't like it, and don't see conflict and whatnot, but I really don't see how you can be in denial about this very simple and rather clear visual element of the film (her power levels). I mean, you really think that despite the fact that she can blow buildings to pieces in seconds, that "trying her damdnest" is blowing a few inches of skin of Logan a couple of times?

And just because a lot of people didn't bother to assess the scene logically doesn't mean it doesn't have logical components. The "legions" of fans who hate X3 on principle don't impress me. People who discuss things in depth, with some semblance of logic impress me.

My lord, this all just reeks of excuses, and you are calling me bitter, I think you are the bitter one because other people arent accepting your opinion as fact.

I'm sorry (see, I can do that too, what are we apologizing for?), but my explanation of what a Deux Ex Machina is, and my assessment that his powers are not one since they've been there from the beginning and didn't just suddenly appear, and me saying what I think I see in her performance reeks of excuses?

What am I excusing, exactly?

How is me telling you what I think I see an "excuse" for anything in context?

How would an "excuse" even fit the context of the part you quoted me saying?

Do you know what an excuse is, and the context such a concept is used in?

She gave up on the accent by X-Men 2. And she didn't do much of an accent in Xmen 1, IMO. If she did one, it barely registered. People hardly noticed when she stopped bothering. Really, despite the Oscar, she's not much of an actor. I like her but it's not because she's hugely talented.

She abandoned the accent because she couldn't do it well. At all. She waffled between African, American, and what sounded like Mexcian accents over the course of the film. It was almost laughable.

And I don't know, she seemed to have compassion in X3 in her scenes with and about Xavier. She gave the eulogy, didn't she? (Not sarcasm, I'm asking. I don't really remember.) Seemed compassionate to Angel when he was looking for a safe place for mutants. Singer didn't even give Collosus an accent for crying out loud.

You are correct. She showed some compassion in X3. She also put her foot down about the cure and Dark Phoenix.

 

[The Guard]

I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh at the fact that the same person that's correcting someone's very definition of Deus ex Machina, actually misspelled the word 4 times.

Says someone who spells "end zone" like a spastic.

The "s" and the "x" on my keyboard are right near each other.

And this is an "x" men movie, which makes my misspelling of "Deux Ex Machina" that much cooler.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I liked Storm the most in X3. She was far too reserved in the first two flicks. The writers, Singer and Fox just didn't get Storm at all. She was pathetically written.

I wasn't asking for a Storm movie with the first two flicks but I did want a stronger Storm who actually acted like she was second in command of the X-Men. If you only watched the first two X-flicks you'd think that Jean was second in command.

 

[The Guard]

She wasn't a complete waste in X-MEN and X2. She had a few nice moments, with Senator Kelly in X-MEN, and with Nightcrawler in X2, and some decent action beats, but they got Storm a lot more right in X3: Instead of just hating humans, or fearing them (both valid issues to bring up, mind you), she was proud of her mutant nature, and of mutants in general.