The Dark Knight Rises Should the Nolanverse Continue After Batman III?

[chamber-music]

If they ever use narration in a Batman film they should do it like Blade Runner.

 

[That-Guy]

I'm not saying your example is wrong. I'm sure it does work for the Dexter character. I'm saying as a comparison to Batman, it doesn't sound right because from what you've told me, they're two different characters.

Dexter doesn't adopt a whole new persona in a costume, right? He doesn't become a different person with a different name, right? He's not nearly as grim and dark and moody as Batman is, right?

That's one of many reasons why people are champing for Robin, because he provides a counter balance to Batman's grim darkness. He's a talker, a lighter personality, someone for Batman to connect with and bring him back from the edge etc.

Batman thinking to himself on a comic book page, and hearing him speak to himself on screen are just two different things altogether.

Technically, Dexter does wear something of a "costume" when he's out doing his vigilante work. He always wears the same outfit, which the show actually poked fun at in one episode, further illustrating how the outfit he wears, though normal street clothes, is more or less his superhero suit.

Also, you are aware that Dexter is a vigilante serial killer, are you not? And he's not just a Frank Castle-type who blows away the bad guys nice and quick. He captures criminals and TORTURES THEM TO DEATH. I think you'll find that he's much, MUCH darker than Batman.

 

[The Joker]

Technically, Dexter does wear something of a "costume" when he's out doing his vigilante work. He always wears the same outfit, which the show actually poked fun at in one episode, further illustrating how the outfit he wears, though normal street clothes, is more or less his superhero suit.

Yeah, that's the same as putting on a mask and cape, and changing your voice

Also, you are aware that Dexter is a vigilante serial killer, are you not?

Yes, I am.....and?

And he's not just a Frank Castle-type who blows away the bad guys nice and quick. He captures criminals and TORTURES THEM TO DEATH. I think you'll find that he's much, MUCH darker than Batman.

The Joker's actions are every bit as dark as that, if not more so, but he's still much more of a talker than Batman is. Why? Because that's his personality.

That's what some of you don't seem to get. It's not about their actions, or how dark those actions are, it's about their personas. Batman is not a talker. He only speaks when necessary. Listening to Batman constantly narrate to himself just would not work. It's not the same as the comic books, where you're just reading words on a page in thought balloons. It's no different to reading the words in his speech bubbles. But put that on screen, and you're hearing Batman talk all the time.

Why do you think they've never done it before in the movies or any of the cartoons? Seriously, answer me that. Spider-Man has narrated in his movies and cartoons. Why? Because that's Spider-Man's persona. He's a talker.

 

[Crook]

Actually, I personally think for a a lead character who isn't very outspoken, narration would work well. Ideally Batman shouldn't talk out loud that much. But it would help for the audience to connect with him further, if given a peek at his thoughts. He may not be a talker, but it is undoubtedly accepted that he is a thinker.

Plus I'm a real sucker for classic noir first-person narration, and I'd love that to be implemented considering Nolan himself is familiar with neo-noir.

 

[The Joker]

Actually, I personally think for a a lead character who isn't very outspoken, narration would work well.

It depends on the character.

Don't you think it would remove the effectiveness of hearing Batman speak on those rare occasions, when we're hearing him narrate to himself all the time?

Ideally Batman shouldn't talk out loud that much. But it would help for the audience to connect with him further, if given a peek at his thoughts.

You get a peek at his thought process in his scenes with Alfred, Gordon, Rachel etc. He opens up to them. Did you feel BTAS, the Burton and Nolan movies suffered because of no narration from Batman?

If you guys want to hear his every thought, watch Adam West's Batman show. He never shuts up in that

 

[Crook]

It depends on the character.

Yes, but I'm wondering how Bats isn't particularly an ideal candidate himself for that archetype. He's isolated, dexterous, and introverted. How is that not perfect for narration?

Don't you think it would remove the effectiveness of hearing Batman speak on those rare occasions, when we're hearing him narrate to himself all the time?

I wouldn't want a constant narration in every scene. But certainly enough, when situations call for it. You tackle it as you do with dialog exposition, which is rampant in most films.

You get a peek at his thought process in his scenes with Alfred, Gordon, Rachel etc. He opens up to them. Did you feel BTAS, the Burton and Nolan movies suffered because of no narration from Batman?

BTAS had the benefit of several hours in material to develop Bruce. This allowed for more intimate scenes and dialog that would most usually be cut in a feature film. As for Burton's films, to a point. Keaton was so damn interesting to look at, that the mystery complemented that lack of dialog. But it could have used more narrative introspection as a result of this approach. With Nolan, not so much with BB but definitely for TDK. Nolan had a lot to work with the Bruce Wayne persona, so that helped in creating a three-dimensional literary figure for us to connect with. But once he dons that cape and cowl, you're in all new territory.

I've never once thought Bruce opened himself completely to anyone. Loners usually don't. They might confide in you more, and you'll get closer than anyone else will, but the real meat of their thought processes? Nah. Not happening. This applies to practically everyone. Me, you, them...anyone. Highly doubtful our most private thoughts and motivations ever escape past the confines of our own consciousness.

That's what makes them golden. You can't get them any other way.

 

[IBRAH08]

It depends on the character.

Don't you think it would remove the effectiveness of hearing Batman speak on those rare occasions, when we're hearing him narrate to himself all the time?



You get a peek at his thought process in his scenes with Alfred, Gordon, Rachel etc. He opens up to them. Did you feel BTAS, the Burton and Nolan movies suffered because of no narration from Batman?

If you guys want to hear his every thought, watch Adam West's Batman show. He never shuts up in that

Actually he talks a lot in BTAS when you really think about it. And you should see the Sherlock Holmes narration, it's so Batman. I don't think those movies suffered from a lack of narration based on what they set out to do. However, many people complain that Batman is not the center of his own movies and narration would really help us get inside his head and make us feel close to him. He should not speak outwardly much and should be alienating to characters in the movie. This does not mean he should be alienating to the audience. Really getting "under the cowl" is something that the other films have somewhat failed to do.

 

[The Joker]

Ok, I don't think there's anything I can say that I haven't said before. I'd just be repeating myself.

Crook, I agree with what you said about limited narration. But it'd have to be severely limited to work. Hearing Batman talk in any kind of constant capacity would be terrible.

Batman is not Sherlock Holmes, or Dexter. Different characters. Different personas. If you feel you're not getting to truly know Batman in any of the movies, then that's down to a lacking in the script writing, not narration.

I seriously doubt they're going to start having Batman narrate himself. They never have before, for good reason, too, so I can't see it happening now. And no offense to those who want narration, but I'm glad it ain't likely to be happening. I just don't see Batman as a narrator.

I might make a thread with a poll and see what the general consensus is about it.

 

[IBRAH08]

Ok, I don't think there's anything I can say that I haven't said before. I'd just be repeating myself.

Crook, I agree with what you said about limited narration. But it'd have to be severely limited to work. Hearing Batman talk in any kind of constant capacity would be terrible.

Batman is not Sherlock Holmes, or Dexter. Different characters. Different personas. If you feel you're not getting to truly know Batman in any of the movies, then that's down to a lacking in the script writing, not narration.

I seriously doubt they're going to start having Batman narrate himself. They never have before, for good reason, too, so I can't see it happening now. And no offense to those who want narration, but I'm glad it ain't likely to be happening. I just don't see Batman as a narrator.

I might make a thread with a poll and see what the general consensus is about it.

The Sherlock Holmes in that movie is not Sherlock Holmes of the book. but yes I think we are just picturing it differently maybe, I dunno. THis is probably a debate that could have it's own thread, but who knows the monitors would prolly merge it with something else.

 

[MyNameisAsh525]

They should name the next movie "Batman Ends?" It should begin with the arrest of several suspects to whom they think is Batman. The movie should take a twist as in having flashbacks and possible flash forwards much like lost which in and of itself would be a riddle for the audience to figure out. The audience should be in suspense in trying to figure out if Bruce Wayne is one of the suspects. You would not know until the Climax who The Batman is in which all of the Flashbacks would tie together in the end. This would be a Riddleristic movie in which Edward Nigma, who would be working with the criminal investigation unit....as his decoy job, would be the controlling factor in knowing (or maybe he doesn't know?) who the Batman is. I would insert crime boss Oswald Cobblepot (Penguin) into the equation as well. I would only see Catwoman as Selina Kyle datin Bruce Wayne....and maybe as Catwoman, who tries to help Batman in the end. I dunno. I just think the audience should get a dose of being antsy, pissed, and then relieved....and then not so relieved when the end credits roll you see "Batman Ends"......and the a BIG question mark pop up....leaving the audience on a cliffhanger............

 

[MyNameisAsh525]

oh yeh, get a really nerdy guy to play Riddler, and a fatass cigar smoking penguin....no Jim Carrey-esque or Danny Devito-esque characters!

 

[That-Guy]

Yeah, that's the same as putting on a mask and cape, and changing your voice



Yes, I am.....and?



The Joker's actions are every bit as dark as that, if not more so, but he's still much more of a talker than Batman is. Why? Because that's his personality.

That's what some of you don't seem to get. It's not about their actions, or how dark those actions are, it's about their personas. Batman is not a talker. He only speaks when necessary. Listening to Batman constantly narrate to himself just would not work. It's not the same as the comic books, where you're just reading words on a page in thought balloons. It's no different to reading the words in his speech bubbles. But put that on screen, and you're hearing Batman talk all the time.

Why do you think they've never done it before in the movies or any of the cartoons? Seriously, answer me that. Spider-Man has narrated in his movies and cartoons. Why? Because that's Spider-Man's persona. He's a talker.

Maybe that's how you see it, but I feel that in the Spider-Man films, they thought it was just an easier way to get Spider-Man's thoughts across to the audience, and it worked. It had nothing to do with him being "a talker."

I'm generally not that big on Batman saying anything out loud when he's in costume... however, I would like to hear his thought process at times. I'm not saying that they should do excessive narration, but some internal reflection here and there could work.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I don't see how it couldn't work. You don't need Batman narrating non stop. Just when he turns up at a crime scene or something, then let us hear his thought process as he investigates. Maybe then we'll actually have Batman being displayed as a great detective, something that has never really be done before. Seriously, i don't see how it couldn't work.

 

[regwec]

A great deal more clarity could be brought to Batman's crime scene investigations by narration.

Having said that, Batman's most effective moments on screen are where he is silent. The rooftop scene with Gordon and Dent was fantastic because Batman just listened, for the most part. The only problem was that he was clearly a good six inches shorter than the other two!

 

[Mr. Earle]

I don't see how it couldn't work. You don't need Batman narrating non stop. Just when he turns up at a crime scene or something, then let us hear his thought process as he investigates. Maybe then we'll actually have Batman being displayed as a great detective, something that has never really be done before. Seriously, i don't see how it couldn't work.

But that would require actual detective work instead of magic bullet fingerprints and cheating via sonar detection.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Of course!

 

[Travesty]

But that would require actual detective work instead of magic bullet fingerprints and cheating via sonar detection.

I'm still confused about the bullet-fingerprint. So he test shoots 4-5 other rounds of ammo, which I assume are different sizes, so her can match up what kind of bullet it is, and then pulled up a print from the wall he took, by putting that in a computer? I mean, is that how he did it, or is there some real science behind it?

 

[Crook]

There's no science behind it at all. Fingerprints wouldn't be on a bullet, they'd be on the casings.

 

[regwec]

The Joker wore gloves, anyway.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

You're forgetting that bullets themselves wouldn't have prints on them. They would be on the casing, which would be on the floor.

I just think for a character like Batman, whose mind is constantly racing it could be a great touch in a new series of films. It's not essential but after 6 feature films no one has tried the hard boild noir version of Batman and that disappoints me, I think it could work and work well if done right.

 

[That-Guy]

A great deal more clarity could be brought to Batman's crime scene investigations by narration.

Having said that, Batman's most effective moments on screen are where he is silent. The rooftop scene with Gordon and Dent was fantastic because Batman just listened, for the most part. The only problem was that he was clearly a good six inches shorter than the other two!

I think that was just the camera angle but I agree, it did look like Batman was much shorter than the other two.

If you look here:

http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Warner+Bros+Pictures+Premiere+Dark+Knight+dH1ALvmwmNGl.jpg

You can see Bale is much taller than Oldman and about level with Eckhart.

 

[Travesty]

There's no science behind it at all. Fingerprints wouldn't be on a bullet, they'd be on the casings.

Well, that too, but is that how he did it? He did some testing on other bullets, and somehow found out a print, cause the computer "reconstructed" the fragment. So what was the point of the bunker bullet tests?

And of course, was some kind of "clue" left by one of The Jokers henchmen, cause Joker didn't have any prints. The more I think about it, the more screwy it becomes, even if there was actual science around obtaining a print that way.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I'm still confused about the bullet-fingerprint. So he test shoots 4-5 other rounds of ammo, which I assume are different sizes, so her can match up what kind of bullet it is, and then pulled up a print from the wall he took, by putting that in a computer? I mean, is that how he did it, or is there some real science behind it?

I think he was trying to determine what kind of bullet was fired, judging by the damage that various bullets did to the bricks. Then, he reconstr....
**** it... It was stupid...

I had no problem with the microwave emitter, but this was freaking ******ed.

 

[The Joker]

Well, that too, but is that how he did it? He did some testing on other bullets, and somehow found out a print, cause the computer "reconstructed" the fragment. So what was the point of the bunker bullet tests?

The idea was that once he determined the spread pattern of the bullet inside the wall, he could, by replicating the scenario, scan the original block and using a computer put all the pieces back together like a jigsaw puzzle. Once put back together he would be able to see the fingerprint on the bullet as it entered the wall.

 

[Travesty]

The Joker wore gloves, anyway.

Joker doesn't have any prints.