Comics sick of gwen stacey

[Kevin]

Well, We All Know With Loeb Coming To The Spidey Verse, He'll Be Writing Some Gwen Stories (you'd Know If You've Read Wizard for The Last Few Months) And He's Most Likely Getting Amazing. David Just Got Fnsm, And That Guy With The Really Hard Name Got That Other One.

 

[AgentEnforcer]

I think Gwen is going to be making a comeback. EVerywhere. The groundwork is being laid and has been laid since Sins Remembered. Do you think the fact that in House of M when Peter got exactly what he WANTED he just happened to get Gwen was just for the fans to get a kick out of? She's in the new movie as a romantic interest, shes coming back in Ultimate... I think if you're sick of Gwen you might wanna stay away from Spider-Man for a few years...

 

[Captivated]

Naaaah... I think it was coincidence that she has popped up so much lately, and I think it's run it's course. Mainly because people ARE sick of the revisionist history we are being subjected to.

If you really read Spidey's history, he has NOT been melancholy and obsessed with Gwen, as has been portrayed in recent stories (that may have started with Blue).

 

[AgentEnforcer]

Naaaah... I think it was coincidence that she has popped up so much lately, and I think it's run it's course. Mainly because people ARE sick of the revisionist history we are being subjected to.

If you really read Spidey's history, he has NOT been melancholy and obsessed with Gwen, as has been portrayed in recent stories (that may have started with Blue).

EXACTLY. Why all of a sudden now has all this Gwen madness started. After years and years of nothing but vague mentions, and a re-emergence during the clone saga with little emotional impact. Now as of House of M, we see the life Spidey really wanted and they are kinda trying to make MJ seem like a make-do wife.

I'm telling ya, Marvel is up to something. They want Gwen back.

 

[Cyclops]

They're desperately trying to come up with anything to get rid of MJ. Anything at all.

 

[DACrowe]

What get the character that was considered the more boring one than MJ so that she was killed off and give him that happy ending that Gerry Conaway and even Stan Lee wanted to avoid by coming to a screeching halt (albeit Sam was mad as **** when he found out they killed Gwen off)?

I liked how she would be mentioned every couple of years in a Spidey story and they show he has never forgotten and the pain never quite went away but he has moved on. But HOuse of M and how Sin's Past ends (where he imagines Gwen's face over MJ's) is ridiculous. This was handeled quite well in the wedding issue. He confronted his memory of Gwen the night before the wedding and said goodbye and moved on. Touching and poetic.

If they get rid of MJ they get rid of the one thing the Spidey comics have got going for them right now.

 

[farmernudie]

The real Gwen is still alive, and the one that died was a clone. Norman Osborn prolly slept with the clone, since obviosuly the real Gwen wouldn't have done such a thing...and he found out it was a clone and then "killed" the Gwen Clone on that bridge so long ago while kidnapping the real Gwen who spurned him and hiding her away to punish her the rest of her life.

So, "the fix by JMS" will reveal that the kids are just clone kids who'll melt into puddy during their next bubble bath. Then the real Gwen will escape from somewhere outta the blue and return and Peter will dump Mary Jane, since he'll realize she misled him into stupidly exposing himself to the public during Civil War. Mary Jane will then run to and date Iron Man, and convince him to drink heavily with all her babbling about her Peter, and convince Tony eventually to expose himself, again, just after biting his eye out, causing Stark to die but be reborn with with a new origin: Magical "Armor" Totem Pole....New powers: robotic claws the pop out of his arms and microfiber hairs on his arms that tell the weather and direction of the wind.

Stark will redesign his armor (yellow and blue) with the help of Speedball (new protective floating metal bubble shields), change his name to IronBall (with a new relaunch of the comic of course) just before being convinced to take off his new armor at a press conference during Joey Q's big event next year: Pearl Harbor: Marvel Edition...Aunt May will advise him also it is the right thing to do, lending credibility to some fans for Stark's decision.

Everyone will go along with the brave new tale...till months later there will be mass arguing as to who is to be blamed for coming up with this odd idea. JMS will only take credit for the return of Gwen but will still be confused as to how to fix everything else with Spidey. Tony Stark, the now sidekick "IronBall" will go beserk and of course, MAry Jane will be the one to feel his wrath and die.

There has to be at least a year's worth of good stories there Joey Q.......RIGHT..??? Let's run with it.

 

[twylight]

I'm a little bias. I love Gwen, however in my opinion she is a highly overused plot point.

If I had it my way the last Gwen Stacy Story would have been Spider-Man:Blue. A nice touching ending to a 'saga' you'd call it.

However Sins Past, Sins Remembered and House of M have dregged up Gwen Stacy again and not in a good light. Which means that you're going to have to put up with hearing about Gwen, good or bad for another 10 years.

Don't hate Gwen..Hate the writers.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Don't hate Gwen..Hate the writers.

 

[gliderpilotgirl]

Don't hate Gwen..Hate the writers.

You are right, it's not Gwen's fault. In fact, her USM representation is awesome, and the series has never been the same without her. Her ASM character is quite likeable too..( before the last 5 years ) I think some of us, are expressing frustration with the writers, but it comes out in the form of dislike for Gwen ( when it is Peter we should be miffed at, he's the one behaving badly and not appreciating his wife ) Also, some of us fans, never knew Pete with Gwen , so we naturally prefer MJ, and get resentful when "the other woman" comes into his head. Good thing for Ult Gwen, it was hard not to like her.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

The real Gwen is still alive, and the one that died was a clone. Norman Osborn prolly slept with the clone, since obviosuly the real Gwen wouldn't have done such a thing...

WORD!

 

[Splicer]

The real Gwen is still alive, and the one that died was a clone. Norman Osborn prolly slept with the clone, since obviosuly the real Gwen wouldn't have done such a thing...and he found out it was a clone and then "killed" the Gwen Clone on that bridge so long ago while kidnapping the real Gwen who spurned him and hiding her away to punish her the rest of her life.

Haha, nice. You had me going until the second paragraph!

 

[fangrl06]

I agree that Peter shouldn't shun MJ because Gwen was his first love, but I mean come on. She was a big part of his life and he will always miss her.

 

[spideylover89]

I think the problem with Gwen lately has been the fact that the writers have idealized her so much. Yes she was his first love and yes you never forget the first, but you don't pine for them all the time and imagine your life would some how be better if they had stayed. Pete's "obsession" with Gwen lately is more common behavior for someone who just lost a loved one, not someone who has moved on and been happily married for quite some time. He came to terms with her death the night before he got married and Pete moved on, but now he has reverted back to the Pete we saw a few months after Gwen died.

Gwen was a cool character and very liked by the fans, but she has been turned into the "perfect" girl by the writers. She had her problems too. A lot of people hate the fact that much of the spidey marriage delt with MJ sitting at home worrying just to b**** at Pete once he returned. Have we forgotten that most of the time when Pete and Gwen were together, Gwen was just as worrisome (and she hadn't even been hit with the spidey news yet!). Chances are Gwen would have wound up the same way as MJ in a marriage because the writers don't know how to handle a superhero relationship any different. They of course seem to think this is strictly an MJ problem though despite the obvious fact that it is a writing problem.

It would be nice if Gwen could finally rest peacefully because if this keeps up, she will easliy burn out. It's like Norman Osborn, he's become so overused that people don't take him as seriously anymore...well the same thing will happen to Gwen if the writers don't quite while they're ahead.

 

[Dragon]

I think the problem with Gwen lately has been the fact that the writers have idealized her so much. Yes she was his first love and yes you never forget the first, but you don't pine for them all the time and imagine your life would some how be better if they had stayed. Pete's "obsession" with Gwen lately is more common behavior for someone who just lost a loved one, not someone who has moved on and been happily married for quite some time. He came to terms with her death the night before he got married and Pete moved on, but now he has reverted back to the Pete we saw a few months after Gwen died.

Gwen was a cool character and very liked by the fans, but she has been turned into the "perfect" girl by the writers. She had her problems too. A lot of people hate the fact that much of the spidey marriage delt with MJ sitting at home worrying just to b**** at Pete once he returned. Have we forgotten that most of the time when Pete and Gwen were together, Gwen was just as worrisome (and she hadn't even been hit with the spidey news yet!). Chances are Gwen would have wound up the same way as MJ in a marriage because the writers don't know how to handle a superhero relationship any different. They of course seem to think this is strictly an MJ problem though despite the obvious fact that it is a writing problem.

It would be nice if Gwen could finally rest peacefully because if this keeps up, she will easliy burn out. It's like Norman Osborn, he's become so overused that people don't take him as seriously anymore...well the same thing will happen to Gwen if the writers don't quite while they're ahead.

Idealized? They have her sleeping with Norman Osborn and bearing his children for goodness sakes.

And let's be clear- it isn't that she's his "first" love. That was Betty. Gwen was the woman he intended to spend his life with. Have kids with. Have a future with. If she hadn't been killed, that's what would've happened.
And- to make it worse- She died because of him. No other reason (forgetting Sins Past of course). She didn't get sick or die in a car accident. She died because she loved Peter Parker. So it isn't that he just can't get over it. Imagine that you caused someone's death. Now imagine that this is someone you loved. When would you "get over it"? This is something that will haunt him forever.

And, sorry to say, but maybe they keep bringing up Gwen, because MJ has such a short shelf life. How interesting is "did MJ make the audition?" up against Spidey having a life of death battle with the Sinister six? They don't mesh.

 

[spideylover89]

Idealized? They have her sleeping with Norman Osborn and bearing his children for goodness sakes.

With the exception of that bull, she has been put on a pedestal by many other writers. Bendis did it with House of M and JMS has actually been the one who has done it the most ironically, with the exception of Sin's Past which, keep in mind, he thought was a way to add more depth to her character (in a sense he thought it was a good thing).

And let's be clear- it isn't that she's his "first" love. That was Betty. Gwen was the woman he intended to spend his life with. Have kids with. Have a future with. If she hadn't been killed, that's what would've happened.
And- to make it worse- She died because of him. No other reason (forgetting Sins Past of course). She didn't get sick or die in a car accident. She died because she loved Peter Parker. So it isn't that he just can't get over it. Imagine that you caused someone's death. Now imagine that this is someone you loved. When would you "get over it"? This is something that will haunt him forever.

This by no means is an attack on Gwen, it's geared more towards Marvel and the way they've treated her. Of course it will haunt him forever and she should never be forgotten, but if the writers keep bringing her up every chance they get she will become more of an annoyance. Because Pete's life is condensed into a monthly comic book there are a lot of issues that have to be put aside due to lack of space. To bring Gwen up on the anniversary of her death or s omething along those lines would work perfectly, but she has popped up a bit too much lately. To me it is starting to cheapen her legacy. I may not be a huge Gwen fan, but I do believe the death of Gwen Stacy arc is one of the best pieces in Spider-man history and it should stay that way. If they bring her back or continue to try to rub our noses in the fact that she is the "one true love" it will just get to be another Marvel annoyance and her death will no longer be held in the same regard. Keep in mind, I'm technically on your side in this case because I don't want her death or her legacy spoiled, but as you can see with the subject of this thread, she is losing the hold she has always had on people. But again, it's not Gwen's fault, it's the writers. Personally, I think they should have left it at spidey Blue because that was an excellent story and wouldn't it be so much better if that is what people think of when they remember Gwen, not Sin's Past.

And, sorry to say, but maybe they keep bringing up Gwen, because MJ has such a short shelf life. How interesting is "did MJ make the audition?" up against Spidey having a life of death battle with the Sinister six? They don't mesh.

Come on, like it's so hard to give MJ something to do. No where is it written in stone that she has to be an actress. If it doesn't work with spidey's lifestyle then change it! People change career pathes all the time, especially entertainment types because so many become turned off by the constant fame and lack of privacy. If she isn't that interesting then make her interesting, I honestly can't see why this is so freaking hard. Hell with the way MJ is being written now she doesn't even have auditions, she and Pete haven't shown up for work in ages. The relationship is boring because nobody knows how to write them (and that's probably because they don't have enough experience in the field ). Look at all the successful shows that deal with nothing but married couples, comedic or not, they pull it off just fine. There is so much material in a marriage/relationship, especially one where the two people are complete opposites...*cough* Pete and MJ *cough.* This whole "there's no good writing when marriage is involved" attitude is just plain lazy.

 

[Dragon]

With the exception of that bull, she has been put on a pedestal by many other writers. Bendis did it with House of M and JMS has actually been the one who has done it the most ironically, with the exception of Sin's Past which, keep in mind, he thought was a way to add more depth to her character (in a sense he thought it was a good thing).

Where has she been put on a pedestal- in that she's made to appear above and beyond other mere mortals? She's presented as someone that Peter was in love with. And, from that perspective, MJ is put on the same pedestal. How many sappy captions are written with Peter musing about how the sunlight bounces off her hair and makes a rainbow?

This by no means is an attack on Gwen, it's geared more towards Marvel and the way they've treated her. Of course it will haunt him forever and she should never be forgotten, but if the writers keep bringing her up every chance they get she will become more of an annoyance. Because Pete's life is condensed into a monthly comic book there are a lot of issues that have to be put aside due to lack of space. To bring Gwen up on the anniversary of her death or s omething along those lines would work perfectly, but she has popped up a bit too much lately. To me it is starting to cheapen her legacy. I may not be a huge Gwen fan, but I do believe the death of Gwen Stacy arc is one of the best pieces in Spider-man history and it should stay that way. If they bring her back or continue to try to rub our noses in the fact that she is the "one true love" it will just get to be another Marvel annoyance and her death will no longer be held in the same regard. Keep in mind, I'm technically on your side in this case because I don't want her death or her legacy spoiled, but as you can see with the subject of this thread, she is losing the hold she has always had on people. But again, it's not Gwen's fault, it's the writers. Personally, I think they should have left it at spidey Blue because that was an excellent story and wouldn't it be so much better if that is what people think of when they remember Gwen, not Sin's Past.

The Death of Gwen Stacy was rendered meaningless when they brought Osborn back, and Peter did nothing to bring him to justice for Gwen's murder.

And Gwen's death,did nothing for her as a character. It was a defining moment for Pewter, even to a point Osborn, but honestly Gwen was nothing but a prop. It was in fact, this story that placed Gwen on a pedestal. She was no longer a person, but a symbol.

Again there was tons of mileage that could have been gotten from Gwen as a character, and apparently these writers want to explore that. There's also the very real possiblity that Marvel does in fact intend to revive her. So they might be planting all of these stories to set the stage. If we know how important she was to Peter, it's easier to see what it would mean to him to see her alive.

Come on, like it's so hard to give MJ something to do. No where is it written in stone that she has to be an actress. If it doesn't work with spidey's lifestyle then change it! People change career pathes all the time, especially entertainment types because so many become turned off by the constant fame and lack of privacy. If she isn't that interesting then make her interesting, I honestly can't see why this is so freaking hard. Hell with the way MJ is being written now she doesn't even have auditions, she and Pete haven't shown up for work in ages. The relationship is boring because nobody knows how to write them (and that's probably because they don't have enough experience in the field ). Look at all the successful shows that deal with nothing but married couples, comedic or not, they pull it off just fine. There is so much material in a marriage/relationship, especially one where the two people are complete opposites...*cough* Pete and MJ *cough.* This whole "there's no good writing when marriage is involved" attitude is just plain lazy.

I agree that things can be done with MJ and the marriage to make both more interesting. But then, things could have been done with Gwen to spice things up, as opposed to killing her. Apparently as ironic as this may seem, comic book writers simply aren't that creative. Many may have a talent for prose, dialogue and visual fireworks, but in terms of conceptualization and characterization they're lacking. I can't remember the last comic book that I've read where I've been really impressed with the writing. As opposed to impressed that "so & so" actually wrote something pretty good.

I don't know if it's because Marvel is so genre oriented or what- but I strongly believe that if they simply looked at this stories from the end of character first, event second they'd be alot better.

 

[JLBats]

For me, the great thing about the ending of the Death of Gwen Stacy was that moment of connection between PEter and MJ... I wouldn't like those issues nearly as much without that moment. So, in years since, whenever Gwen is glorified while Peter and MJ's relationship is degraded, I can't help but think that today's writers have completely missed the full meaning of the story.

 

[spideylover89]

I agree that things can be done with MJ and the marriage to make both more interesting. But then, things could have been done with Gwen to spice things up, as opposed to killing her. Apparently as ironic as this may seem, comic book writers simply aren't that creative. Many may have a talent for prose, dialogue and visual fireworks, but in terms of conceptualization and characterization they're lacking. I can't remember the last comic book that I've read where I've been really impressed with the writing. As opposed to impressed that "so & so" actually wrote something pretty good.

I don't know if it's because Marvel is so genre oriented or what- but I strongly believe that if they simply looked at this stories from the end of character first, event second they'd be alot better.

Couldn't agree more. Gwen was essentially screwed over in the end becauseshe had so much potential, but it seems no one learns from their mistakes because the exact same thing is happening to MJ. Joe Q doesn't know what to do with her so he wants her gone. Sadly I don't see MJ going out with as mucha bang as Gwen because Joe seems hell bent on making the fans dislike MJ as much as he does before he gives her the boot.

As far as originality goes, Marvel will never succeed (at least with Joe Q around) because their idea of a good, creative story is something that has to shock the system. Characters and continuity are completely disregarded for stories that are supposed to "shake the Marvel universe for good." Even that seriously overused phrase has become a red flag for a craptacular story to come.

 

[Feature]

For me, the great thing about the ending of the Death of Gwen Stacy was that moment of connection between PEter and MJ... I wouldn't like those issues nearly as much without that moment. So, in years since, whenever Gwen is glorified while Peter and MJ's relationship is degraded, I can't help but think that today's writers have completely missed the full meaning of the story.

This is dead on.
Gwen is not going to be his main love interest in the third film.
Gwen's appearance in USM is only because of the reinvisioning of the clone saga.
Once again, the 616 Universe is idiotically off track by trying to cram Gwen down everyones' throats. You just know there is like a 75% chance they will be trying to bring her back one day and that's stupid.
I'm alright with them reminding us every now and then that Peter still thinks of her (of course he would), but not at the expense of the woman who stood by him hundreds of times more than Gwen even had the opportunity to.

 

[spideylover89]

For me, the great thing about the ending of the Death of Gwen Stacy was that moment of connection between PEter and MJ... I wouldn't like those issues nearly as much without that moment.

I agree, as a Pete/MJ fan, that was the best moment for me as well. You knew when she shut that door that everything we knew about MJ was not as it seemed and she and Pete would never be the same after that. Too bad so many writers have fallen back on what that scene was telling us.

 

[Eye Doc]

The thing that bothers me about the Gwen situation is that she's been dead since 1973 in REAL TIME. We're halfway thru 2006. She's been dead 34 years. Most of us never read the comic while she was "alive". We only know of her thru back issues. Gwen died in AMZ 121. We're over issue 500 now. I can't speak for the rest of you, but I just don't have a big attachment to her. I didn't even know who she really was until around AMZ 276 or so, which is 150 issues after her death.

Like one person said earlier, for awhile the sitiuation was well handled. Peter would think abouther from time to time, but she wasn't constantly brought up like she is now. In recent years, Marvel seems to be desparately trying to make us remember/miss her. Well, that's hard for the people who grew up reading the book with MJ as his girlfriend. I mean Peter is MARRIED TO ANOTHER WOMAN now. That's why so many people were put off with the House of M. Peter's fondest wish is to be with a girl most of the modern readers have no attachment to.....not his wife who's been with him thru thick and thin. Let's be frank, in comic time Peter couldn't have dated Gwen more than 2 yrs.

I think a lot of creators like to write about characters they grew up with. The guys who put the most attention on Gwen or the Stacy's in general(Loeb, JMS, Mackie, etc.) are middle aged men who grew up with her during the Silver Age. Consequently, I think THEY DON'T WANT TO FORGET HER. So, they shoe horn her into the stories. Perhaps this trend will pass when writers who have no vested interest in the character eventually take over the writing duties.

I'll close by agreeing that Gwen's death was made moot when Norman returned and Peter really NEVER brought Norman to justice for his crime. It always bothered me that Norman went to jail in an issue of the PULSE, not AMZ....and Peter didn't play a big role his downfall.

Eye Doc

 

[Venomfan]

to whoever said MJ is boring because all we ever hear about is whether or not she got an audition or w/e...actually to anyone who thinks MJ is boring, what could Gwen do better???? i find Gwen to be really boring compared to MJ, Gwen was just a pretty sweet girl, like the kind of girl thats the love interest in every movie from the start of film to the 80's. MJ actually has really developed character. the way i look at it was Gwen was only brought in to be killed so that peter and MJ would have a deeper relationship

 

[Captivated]

Idealized? They have her sleeping with Norman Osborn and bearing his children for goodness sakes.

And let's be clear- it isn't that she's his "first" love. That was Betty. Gwen was the woman he intended to spend his life with. Have kids with. Have a future with. If she hadn't been killed, that's what would've happened.
And- to make it worse- She died because of him. No other reason (forgetting Sins Past of course). She didn't get sick or die in a car accident. She died because she loved Peter Parker. So it isn't that he just can't get over it. Imagine that you caused someone's death. Now imagine that this is someone you loved. When would you "get over it"? This is something that will haunt him forever.

And, sorry to say, but maybe they keep bringing up Gwen, because MJ has such a short shelf life. How interesting is "did MJ make the audition?" up against Spidey having a life of death battle with the Sinister six? They don't mesh.

Good grief... Betty!? She was a crush he easily got past... no way would I put THAT in the "first love" category.

The reason I think it is inconsistant with history, to bring up Gwen so much -- like an obsession he has never gotten past -- is because it IS inconsistant! There have been down times for Peter, where an event would make him morose over ALL the deaths of loved ones he has had to endure... but NOT soley pinning over Gwen. This is a recent phenomenon (thanks Spider-Man Blue )

MJ has a short shelf life!? No way. You've obviously never read her properly written... which I'll admit, is sometimes hard to find, with the hostile attitude towards the marriage and laziness concerning supporting characters that we've seen.

Do yourself a favor and read (or reread) the Sinister Six triogly by Adam-Troy Castro. Seriously. Spot on characterization... scary villains and the Peter/MJ relationship written as it should be. There is also a short story called "5-Minutes" by Peter David, which is another perfect example of what COULD be.

You are usually quick to call the writers on laziness... I can only assume you just don't like MJ as a character to make such a ridiculous statement.

 

[Captivated]

The thing that bothers me about the Gwen situation is that she's been dead since 1973 in REAL TIME. We're halfway thru 2006. She's been dead 34 years. Most of us never read the comic while she was "alive". We only know of her thru back issues. Gwen died in AMZ 121. We're over issue 500 now. I can't speak for the rest of you, but I just don't have a big attachment to her. I didn't even know who she really was until around AMZ 276 or so, which is 150 issues after her death.

Like one person said earlier, for awhile the sitiuation was well handled. Peter would think abouther from time to time, but she wasn't constantly brought up like she is now. In recent years, Marvel seems to be desparately trying to make us remember/miss her. Well, that's hard for the people who grew up reading the book with MJ as his girlfriend. I mean Peter is MARRIED TO ANOTHER WOMAN now. That's why so many people were put off with the House of M. Peter's fondest wish is to be with a girl most of the modern readers have no attachment to.....not his wife who's been with him thru thick and thin. Let's be frank, in comic time Peter couldn't have dated Gwen more than 2 yrs.

I think a lot of creators like to write about characters they grew up with. The guys who put the most attention on Gwen or the Stacy's in general(Loeb, JMS, Mackie, etc.) are middle aged men who grew up with her during the Silver Age. Consequently, I think THEY DON'T WANT TO FORGET HER. So, they shoe horn her into the stories. Perhaps this trend will pass when writers who have no vested interest in the character eventually take over the writing duties.

I'll close by agreeing that Gwen's death was made moot when Norman returned and Peter really NEVER brought Norman to justice for his crime. It always bothered me that Norman went to jail in an issue of the PULSE, not AMZ....and Peter didn't play a big role his downfall.

Eye Doc

Good point. But I think Gwen is very important to the mythos. She shouldn't be forgotten... just not overblown.

I really hated Spider-Man House of M, on MANY levels, but it was a little sickening to see Peter with Gwen after ALL that has happened between him and MJ... including years of marriage... ties that would bind much tighter than a bittersweet memory.