Siege

[Keyser Soze]

Awesome pic.

I know I should be channeling my fanboy skepticism here, but I'm actually really looking forward to Siege now. My three favourite Marvel heroes (Iron Man, Thor, Captain America) together once more, my favourite Marvel villain (Loki) as the Big Bad, one of my favourite artists (Olivier Coipel) drawing. With all that on the table, I'm willing to give Bendis the benefit of the doubt, and allow myself to get excited.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The big three haven't been on the Avengers together since the conclusion of "Standoff" in Avengers vol. 3 #63. Cap, Iron Man, and Thor fight over Thor's involvement in an international conflict and Thor quits the Avengers afterward (he wasn't in his right mind at the time). They do appear together once more, early in Thor's "Avengers: Disassembled" arc, but Thor never actually rejoined the Avengers, so it was just Cap and Iron Man doing him a favor. Thor quickly sends Cap and Iron Man away once he realizes that Asgard may actually be entering Ragnarok, which is not something he believed mortals should be privy to.

 

[Drz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJsXuWWf-wQ&feature=player_embedded

Siege leak-trailer is up! (Admins/Mods sorry if this is breaking the rules somehow, but im pretty sure its not, right?)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think so.

The trailer looks good. I like how it makes it look like the break-up of the three central heroes (within the Marvel universe, I mean, not in terms of sales or popularity) was the gateway for all this horrible s*** that happened. I very much doubt that anyone at Marvel planned that out from the start, but even through sheer serendipity, it works as a compelling narrative theme.

 

[kguillou]

Its amazing how Thor, Captain America and Ironman are easily marvel's most popular heroes these days when 5 years ago it most certainly wasn't the case. I think its a testament to marvel's marketing scheme as to how they were able to build the hype for these characters. Say what you will about Bendis but i think his breaking of the Avengers did Thor, Cap and Ironman alot of good because 5 years ago i doubt very many would've cared so much about a reunion between these guys but now its like the coming of the messiah.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I would have. I've always loved the Avengers, and those three have always been THE big characters of the Avengers. It's just that over time, the Avengers basically faded into the background because the X-Men, Spider-Man, and the grim-&-gritty characters of the '90s rose to much higher levels of popularity, so the Avengers ceased to be recognized by the general public as THE superhero team of the Marvel universe. They still basically functioned that way within the Marvel universe, but readers just didn't seem to care, which led to cheaper talent on the series and 2nd-tier characters on the team's roster.

Busiek and Perez gave the team a brief resurgence, but they never quite made it back up to the level of being central to the Marvel universe the way they were for their first couple decades until Bendis decided to take them under his wing. As little as I like Bendis' writing of most established heroes, he really has done more to raise the Avengers' profile than anyone else in recent memory. It's debatable whether other writers could've done the same given the same kind of creative freedom and huge promotional backing that Marvel's given Bendis for the past several years, but the fact of the matter is that Bendis did get those advantages and he's used them to great effect in the Avengers' favor. Major brownie points for Bendis in my book.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Bendis hints that Dark Avengers will be ending after Siege:

IGN Comics: A question about Dark Avengers. You mention Siege is basically the final act. Does that mean Dark Avengers concludes once Siege ends or are there plans to keep it around in some form?

Bendis: There will be a seismic change in what's published in the Avengers franchise.

IGN Comics: Gotcha.

Bendis: But I will tell you what I like about all this. These plans are going ahead while all the books are doing well. Not to be braggy, but New Avengers and Dark Avengers are doing well. We could have run this [Dark Reign concept] into the ground. Dark Avengers is even doing better than I expected. But we get to tell this story on its own natural progression and end it on that progression – not based on sales, but based on the story being over. I like that this isn't a desperate move, but a cool move, if that makes any sense.

What's happening next is based solely on the fact that we have a story to tell. That's the best part of this.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/103/1034124p2.html

EDIT: On the first page on that link, Brevoort also says that the tie-ins will be limited to Mighty Avengers, Dark Avengers, New Avengers, Avengers: The Initiative, Dark Wolverine, Thor, etc.

 

[kguillou]

Thinking about it more, Bendis wasnt alone in revitalizing the Avengers. I think a significant amount of credit should also be given to Brubaker and Warren Ellis. Let's face it, Warren Ellis and Adi Granov COMPLETELY rejuvinated Ironman for the 21st century. Extremis has become the quintessential book to read to learn about Ironman (well next to demon in a bottle of course). And Brubaker and Epting also redefined Captain America for the new millenium as well when they turned his book into a dark espionage action title. I think if it werent for these guys as well, the avengers franchise wouldnt be as strong as it is now even with bendis' hand.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But people really didn't pay much attention to Brubaker's Captain America until he was killed. And I think Fraction's Iron Man is more prevalent than Ellis'. They're sorta doing away what Ellis did in Secret Invasion and World's Most Wanted.

Not only that but Iron Man and Captain America left the New Avengers book after New Avengers: Disassembled due to Civil War, and Iron Man left Mighty Avengers after Earth's Mightiest.

 

[Drz]

It's a sad day for a Dark Avengers fan to see this end. I wasn't into Marvel universe (outside Ultimates) until i heard about this "Dark Avengers" and i fell in love with the concept. Oh well it was bloody brilliant while it lasted!

 

[hippie_hunter]

It's a sad day for a Dark Avengers fan to see this end. I wasn't into Marvel universe (outside Ultimates) until i heard about this "Dark Avengers" and i fell in love with the concept. Oh well it was bloody brilliant while it lasted!

As a fan of Dark Avengers, I'd rather see it end on a high note than going beyond it's purpose and dragging around in the mud like New Avengers.

I mean the whole point of Dark Avengers is that it's an awesome combination of Ellis' Thunderbolts and Bendis' Mighty Avengers. Without Osborn in charge and the Dark Avengers no longer being the official Avengers team, the book just completely loses that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Dark Avengers was never for me, so I don't care whether it stays or goes. The only thing that would concern me is if, after the Avengers reorganization, it sticks around as a black ops squad, as someone suggested. That would infuriate me because that's really not what I want the Avengers to be about, especially if this is supposed to be the symbolic return of heroism to the Marvel universe.

 

[Drz]

Yeah i know i know. I don't wanna see it getting dragged for years and stuff. It's just that i don't think i'll be reading anymore canonical Marvel unless the Thunderbolts gets the team members that i can actually care a damn about. =P

 

[TheCorpulent1]

So you don't like any actual superheroes? Just villains posing as superheroes?

 

[Drz]

I'm only aware of Millar's Captain America, Thor, Iron Man and etc... Ima get that Thor graphical novel of that new writer you praised to me and stuff, but i dunno the main reason i did get attracted to Marvel's canon universe was the concept of villains posing as heroes scheme. ^^

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There's something profoundly sad about reading superhero comics solely for the villains, I think.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Yeah i know i know. I don't wanna see it getting dragged for years and stuff. It's just that i don't think i'll be reading anymore canonical Marvel unless the Thunderbolts gets the team members that i can actually care a damn about. =P

You don't like ant-man or ghost? What's it like having no soul? Does holy water actually burn?

Besides if the T-Bolts got more A listers bendis would just jack them.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I've grown rather fond of the neurotic team of Paladin, the Headsman, and the Ghost.

I still can't stand Ant-Man, though--too incompetent and moronic to be a good hero, too dopey and wussy to be a good villain, and not funny enough to just be the everyman caught in the middle.

 

[Drz]

You don't like ant-man or ghost? What's it like having no soul? Does holy water actually burn?

See my problem is i have no idea who these are. I'm aware the ant-man is some new guy but from what ive read about Hank Pym (the ultimate one) hes a lousy woman beating jerk and i'm happy he's dead in the Ultimate universe.

 

[Blader5489]

I posted this on the last page, but it was at the bottom and I don't think anyone saw it (otherwise, why aren't you commenting on it!):

The next event/status quo/whatever-you-want-to-call-it after Dark Reign will be called "The Heroic Age," which is supposed to be aimed at readers who are tired of the bad guys constantly winning in the Marvel universe.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

See my problem is i have no idea who these are. I'm aware the ant-man is some new guy but from what ive read about Hank Pym (the ultimate one) hes a lousy woman beating jerk and i'm happy he's dead in the Ultimate universe.

So the majority of your information comes from the Ultimate universe? Cripes, no wonder you love villains. There are no heroes in the Ultimate universe.

 

[moraldeficiency]

See my problem is i have no idea who these are. I'm aware the ant-man is some new guy but from what ive read about Hank Pym (the ultimate one) hes a lousy woman beating jerk and i'm happy he's dead in the Ultimate universe.

So you don't ever read a story about people you don't already know about? Cause these guys might be pretty unknown, but good writing can make any concept pretty damn entertaining.

This Ant-Man is Eric O'Grady, a corrupt shield agent that stole the suit and mainly uses it to spy on women in the shower. I like him.
Ghost is basically an evil Rorshach.

 

[Drz]

So the majority of your information comes from the Ultimate universe? Cripes, no wonder you love villains. There are no heroes in the Ultimate universe.

So you don't ever read a story about people you don't already know about? Cause these guys might be pretty unknown, but good writing can make any concept pretty damn entertaining.

This Ant-Man is Eric O'Grady, a corrupt shield agent that stole the suit and mainly uses it to spy on women in the shower. I like him.
Ghost is basically an evil Rorshach.

The reason i'm picky with Marvel comics is that i already have enough monthly comics to buy. Adding Dark Avengers and its minis (Wolverine and the upcoming Ares) are already a big thing for me. I mean i'm not saying this is boring or anything but it was just a personal decision to check this out and then move back to Ultimate Avengers , Batman and Green Lantern. ^^;

 

[TheCorpulent1]

People buying Ultimate comics makes me cry, but to each his own.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Well look at it this way drop wolverine and DA and you're set. Though sentry getting shot in the face by his wife was pretty priceless.