Simon Beaufoy writting "Wolverine 2"?

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

None of these movies were ensembles...they were about Wolverine and Magneto, Stryker, or Jean...everyone else fed into that plot by being connected to the antagonist or protagonist. That is why people call X1, X2, X3 Wolverine 1, 2, and 3. He was the star of all 3 of those films.

They would be wrong by calling it Wolverine 1, 2, and 3.

First off, if you have a problem with Wolverine being the main guy (which I admit he was), then you need to go have a talk with Marvel, because Wolverine is the main guy in pretty much damn near every X-Men comic ever written since his introduction.

Second, those movies are JUST AS MUCH about Magneto and Xavier's unique relationship; Jean Grey's transformation from restrained, unsure student into unleashed being of ultimate power; Rogue's struggle with her powers which physically ruin any of her intimate relationships; Magneto starting and fighting his war against humanity for mutant superiority; as they are about Logan and his character arcs.

I don't doubt that Logan is the showcase - but he always has been in the X-Men. In the comics, cartoons, video games - any incarnation of X-Men has Wolverine front and center. It was only a natural transition to make him the centerpiece in the films as well. It's rather true to the source material.

But these movies -are- an ensemble piece, and they are just as much about the arcs of other characters as well as they are about Wolverine.

I think that to believe otherwise is just to be bitter and naiive because your favorite character didn't get as much screentime as you would have liked.

 

[chaseter]

They would be wrong by calling it Wolverine 1, 2, and 3.

First off, if you have a problem with Wolverine being the main guy (which I admit he was), then you need to go have a talk with Marvel, because Wolverine is the main guy in pretty much damn near every X-Men comic ever written since his introduction.

Second, those movies are JUST AS MUCH about Magneto and Xavier's unique relationship; Jean Grey's transformation from restrained, unsure student into unleashed being of ultimate power; Rogue's struggle with her powers which physically ruin any of her intimate relationships; Magneto starting and fighting his war against humanity for mutant superiority; as they are about Logan and his character arcs.

I don't doubt that Logan is the showcase - but he always has been in the X-Men. In the comics, cartoons, video games - any incarnation of X-Men has Wolverine front and center. It was only a natural transition to make him the centerpiece in the films as well. It's rather true to the source material.

But these movies -are- an ensemble piece, and they are just as much about the arcs of other characters as well as they are about Wolverine.

I think that to believe otherwise is just to be bitter and naiive because your favorite character didn't get as much screentime as you would have liked.

So just because you call X1-3 an ensemble means that no characters in this movie besides Creed or Wolverine will have any depth to them or any of their own sub plots

I am not refutting Wolverine being the Marvel star so that point is moot to this argument.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I agree with the pointless cameos part.

The problem is that FOX thinks its better to use more mutants instead of just regular people

X3 being the best example of this with at least 10 mutant characters that were there just for filler.

*Gambit is total filler in this movie, they coulda just gotten someone else to give Wolverine that intel. Thing is he may have been dropped in the movie for a potential X-Men First Class setup.

Deadpool has more to do but its still mundane at this point for me. I see him as the Juggernaut of this movie, as the Deathstrike of this movie.

One final badass foe for Wolverine to knock down or kill.

That's because it is.

Why in GOD'S NAME would you make an X-Men film, and then fill the roles with "regular people" when there are so many rich characters in the source material to draw from.

I would be insanely pissed if the X-Men films all just showed a couple of key mutants, and then filled the rest with a bunch of regular, made up faceless characters, instead of filling those roles with characters from the comics.

Are we talking about the X-Men: The Last Stand characters of Callisto, Quill, Arclight, and Psylocke? Well, I admit Psylocke was the wrong choice for her role - but I really enjoyed seeing characters like Lady Deathstrike, Juggernaut, Callisto, etc... used instead of just "random mutant baddie 4".

Lady Deathstrike wasn't exactly what I had hoped to see from her, no, but I still find it a better use of character to include Lady Deathstrike, instead of "anonymous brainwashed mutant".

I am MUCH more pleased to see Gambit being used instead of "random guy playing poker that won't be remembered in 2 minutes".

 

[Peter McCabe]

So just because you call X1-3 an ensemble means that no characters in this movie besides Creed or Wolverine will have any depth to them or any of their own sub plots

I am not refutting Wolverine being the Marvel star so that point is moot to this argument.

Its not that, at least I know, its just that you're giving Gambit and Deadpool too much importance in this particular film.

The plot could have easily worked without them.

 

[chaseter]

Its not that, at least I know, its just that you're giving Gambit and Deadpool too much importance in this particular film.

The plot could have easily worked without them.

I agree with you. But the same could be said for X1, X2, or X3. The plot for X2 would still drive forward without Nightcrawler, Storm, Deathstrike, etc...because that movie was about Wolverine and Stryker.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

So just because you call X1-3 an ensemble means that no characters in this movie besides Creed or Wolverine will have any depth to them or any of their own sub plots

I am not refutting Wolverine being the Marvel star so that point is moot to this argument.

Look, if you think that any characters outside of Logan, Creed, and Stryker are going to have any significant kind of role to play, then I think you are being naiive.

Gambit is going to have ONE SCENE, and his scene is entirely there to advance Logan through the story, by providing him with information.

Deadpool is going to have about 2 scenes, which further Logan's story by giving him an antagonist.

Wraith, Maverick, and the rest of Team X will be there to further Logan's story by showing his history, and give us insight as to WHY he is doing the things he is doing throughout the movie.

That is completely different from Xavier and Magneto fighting their own struggles, regardless of whether Wolverine is there or not; Rogue's troubles with her boyfriend, regardless of whether Wolverine is there or not; Jean Grey's transformation into the Phoenix, regardless of whether Wolverine or not.

In the end, all these story arcs may tie together, but these stories are not there to advance Logan's story. They are there to advance the story of the X-Men. Logan happens to be a member of the X-Men at this point, and therefore he BENEFITS from the overall advancement of the story. But these arcs are not there to directly enhance Wolverine as a character.

Gambit, Deadpool, Wraith, Blob, Stryker, Creed, Silverfox, Agent Zero - these people are ALL in this movie to advance Logan's story arc. Their stories do not act independantly from Logan's story.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I agree with you. But the same could be said for X1, X2, or X3. The plot for X2 would still drive forward without Nightcrawler, Storm, Deathstrike, etc...because that movie was about Wolverine and Stryker.

No it couldn't.

That movie is about Logan and his history with Stryker / Weapon X

The movie is about Magneto, and furthering his motives against homo-sapien and the advancement of mutant-kind.

The movie is about the lengths that bigots will go to eliminate those that are different from them.

The movie is about Rogue and Iceman, and the struggles they face as a young couple that can never be physically intimate with each other.

The movie is about Pyro, a young castaway mutant who has no home, but has a large ego to fill, and him going down the wrong path in life because of the ego boost and instant gratification he receives.

The movie is about Jean Grey, and the foreshadowing that there is more to Jean Grey than we previously knew.

Nightcrawler was (like Gambit) a character used to advance the main storyline, yes. He was there to contribute to Stryker's goals. Yes, Stryker had a large connection to Wolverine, but Stryker's motives in X2 went far beyond Wolverine. Stryker's motives impacted ALL of the characters, because he wanted to eliminate mutant-kind period. Wolverine just so happened to be there, and they happened to have a history together. The movie isn't solely based upon their history. Their motives aren't solely based upon their history. Stryker has bigger fish to fry than just Logan. His objectives were stated clearly WELL before he encountered Logan in this film. His objectives were independent of his history and story with Logan.

 

[chaseter]

Look, if you think that any characters outside of Logan, Creed, and Stryker are going to have any significant kind of role to play, then I think you are being naiive.

Gambit is going to have ONE SCENE, and his scene is entirely there to advance Logan through the story, by providing him with information.

Deadpool is going to have about 2 scenes, which further Logan's story by giving him an antagonist.

Wraith, Maverick, and the rest of Team X will be there to further Logan's story by showing his history, and give us insight as to WHY he is doing the things he is doing throughout the movie.

That is completely different from Xavier and Magneto fighting their own struggles, regardless of whether Wolverine is there or not; Rogue's troubles with her boyfriend, regardless of whether Wolverine is there or not; Jean Grey's transformation into the Phoenix, regardless of whether Wolverine or not.

In the end, all these story arcs may tie together, but these stories are not there to advance Logan's story. They are there to advance the story of the X-Men. Logan happens to be a member of the X-Men at this point, and therefore he BENEFITS from the overall advancement of the story. But these arcs are not there to directly enhance Wolverine as a character.

Gambit, Deadpool, Wraith, Blob, Stryker, Creed, Silverfox, Agent Zero - these people are ALL in this movie to advance Logan's story arc. Their stories do not act independantly from Logan's story.

You seem to forget that Rogue was connected directly to Wolverine, Wolverine was connected directly to Jean...so no...their stories in the movies would not be the same if he weren't there. Why? Because X1-X3 were Wolverine 1-3. Wolverine and Rogue were close...he was the one who was her mentor, Wolverine killed Jean...

I never said Gambit would have a huge role, I said that he is in the story for a reason and his arc feeds directly into the plot of the movie that drives the main character forward...THAT IS IT.

This is getting off into tangents anyways that have nothing to do with X-Men Origins: Wolverine so agree to disagree.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

You seem to forget that Rogue was connected directly to Wolverine, Wolverine was connected directly to Jean...so no...their stories in the movies would not be the same if he weren't there. Why? Because X1-X3 were Wolverine 1-3. Wolverine and Rogue were close, Wolverine killed Jean...

Wolverine has absolutely NOTHING to do with Jean Grey's transformation into Phoenix. It happened independent of her connection to Wolverine.

Wolverine had absolutely NOTHING to do with Rogue's struggle with her mutation. It acted independent of her connection to Wolverine.

Just because these characters KNEW each other doesn't mean that connection was the catalyst of these story arcs.

 

[chaseter]

Wolverine has absolutely NOTHING to do with Jean Grey's transformation into Phoenix. It happened independent of her connection to Wolverine.

Wolverine had absolutely NOTHING to do with Rogue's struggle with her mutation. It acted independent of her connection to Wolverine.

Just because these characters KNEW each other doesn't mean that connection was the catalyst of these story arcs.

WTF!? Rogue went directly to Wolverine to help her cope with her mutation. Rogue would have went off the deep end if it weren't for Wolverine. Wolverine loved Jean and Phoenix knew this and that directly contributed to the way she acted and Wolverine even f-ing killed Jean...Wolverine directly impacted their story lines

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

WTF!? Rogue went directly to Wolverine to help her cope with her mutation. Rogue would have went off the deep end if it weren't for Wolverine. Wolverine loved Jean and Phoenix knew this and that directly contributed to the way she acted and Wolverine even f-ing killed Jean...Wolverine directly impacted their story lines

His connection to them was a PART of the story arcs.

Those story arcs were not there to further the advancement of Logan. Those arcs were not about Logan's connection with these women.

If anything, HE was the supporting character in those arcs, there to advance THEIR storylines. In X-Men and X2, Logan's love for Jean was a part of his arc. In X-Men: The Last Stand, Logan's love became a part of Jean's arc. Logan was a supporting character to Phoenix in that particular story.

 

[chaseter]

His connection to them was a PART of the story arcs.

Those story arcs were not there to further the advancement of Logan. Those arcs were not about Logan's connection with these women.

If anything, HE was the supporting character in those arcs, there to advance THEIR storylines. In X-Men and X2, Logan's love for Jean was a part of his arc. In X-Men: The Last Stand, Logan's love became a part of Jean's arc. Logan was a supporting character to Phoenix in that particular story.

You just negated your previous argument. If you take out Jean, the plot of X1 and 2 still goes forward. If you take out Rogue, the plot of 2 and 3 still goes forward. They contributed to the climax of their one film but Wolverine intervened in that climax because these movies are about him. Deadpool will contribute to the climax and Wolverine will intervene. So Deadpool is on the same level as Jean and Rogue where but you said earlier his part doesn't matter.

 

[Peter McCabe]

His connection to them was a PART of the story arcs.

Those story arcs were not there to further the advancement of Logan. Those arcs were not about Logan's connection with these women.

If anything, HE was the supporting character in those arcs, there to advance THEIR storylines. In X-Men and X2, Logan's love for Jean was a part of his arc. In X-Men: The Last Stand, Logan's love became a part of Jean's arc. Logan was a supporting character to Phoenix in that particular story.

Logan was the protagonist of the trilogy.

The things happening in the trilogy around him continue to change him as each film goes into the next.

In X1 he wants to be the Wolverine we're gonna see in a month - alone, a man living on fumes.

By X2 he's already got a crush for Jean (a human connection) and a responsibility towards Rogue (another human connection).

By X3 he's done lookin to the past and is now grieving Jean - which leads him to stick around and not continue running (personality change). At this point he's also established some serious friendships, particularly with Xavier and Storm (he's connecting with the adults) and he's also become sympathetic towards Scott which Logan now sees as himself - a man broken, torn.

So in the end, the events of all the films were a driving force for Wolverine's personality to evolve.

In this film we have PURE Wolverine, we have the source of all the pain that made him the X1 Wolverine.

 

[chaseter]

And we better damn see the claw flip off like we did in X1!!!

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I don't buy any of that. While Logan was obviously a major focus in the films, I don't see the stories AT ALL as about him.

I see the stories as about the X-Men. He happens to be the main character in the films, but it's about all of them.

I still don't see Rogue's stories, or Jean's stories, or Xavier's stories, or Magneto's stories, or even Iceman or Pyro, as about Logan.

 

[Peter McCabe]

I don't buy any of that. While Logan was obviously a major focus in the films, I don't see the stories AT ALL as about him.

I see the stories as about the X-Men. He happens to be the main character in the films, but it's about all of them.

I still don't see Rogue's stories, or Jean's stories, or Xavier's stories, or Magneto's stories, or even Iceman or Pyro, as about Logan.

I agree.

See, even though Logan was the protagonist - like McQueen in The Great Escape SURROUNDED by other actors, those other characters DID have vital agendas in the film.

In this film there is only ONE agenda which is vital and it revolves around Logan, his brother and Stryker.

*This is what Jackman was talking about when saying he was fighting for time in the trilogy - there were other characters with story arcs besides himself.

Gambit, Deadpool, Wraith, Blob, Bolt, Maverick, Emma, Cyke, etc...

none of this story will be seen through their eyes.

 

[chaseter]

HAHA I want someone to edit out all of Wolverine from any of the 3 films and see if it still makes sense as compared to editing out Pyro, Iceman, Xavier, or Jean...my guess is no.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

HAHA I want someone to edit out all of Wolverine from any of the 3 films and see if it still makes sense as compared to editing out Pyro, Iceman, Xavier, or Jean...my guess is no.

Nobody is saying you could edit out Wolverine and get the same story - I know that I'm not.

I'm saying that you would not get the same story if you took out Pyro, Iceman, Xavier, or Jean, as you mentioned. ESPECIALLY Xavier and Jean who I feel are just as much protagonist as Logan.

 

[chaseter]

Nobody is saying you could edit out Wolverine and get the same story - I know that I'm not.

I'm saying that you would not get the same story if you took out Pyro, Iceman, Xavier, or Jean, as you mentioned. ESPECIALLY Xavier and Jean who I feel are just as much protagonist as Logan.

I agree with you Nell but you said earlier that since you thought X1-3 was an ensemble that some of the other characters subplots were just as meaningful as the main plot. Who is to say that Creed and Stryker won't have an intersting and important relationship in this movie like Magneto and Charles. Who is to say that Silver Fox's and Creed's arc aren't intertwined or as important to the story as good as Cyclop's and Jean's. You devalued this movie's character sub plots because you don't see this as an ensemble and that is wrong.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Jeez! Can we please just get a remake of X3??

If only!

 

[Infinity9999x]

I thought the fact that Tom Rothman was bumped upstairs and is no longer involved in day to day movie planning would've made fanboys everywhere look forward to future X-films?

Wolverine in Japan is just what I want to see next! (After Magneto's story)

Seconded!!

Bring on Shingin, Mariko, Yukio, and the Hand dammit!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^I wouldnt mind that at all for the 2nd movie, with a 3rd Wolverine movie based AFTER X3, with the return of Sabretooth, and possibly other things introduced.

 

[protocida]

I think it would be better if the while trilogy is kept in the past.

And I'd love to see Wolverine's "luck" in love, with all the women he loves (Silverfox in the 1°, Mariko Yashida in the 2°, someone else in the third) dying because his enemies we're trying to get back at him. It would be awesome.

 

[chaseter]

Seconded!!

Bring on Shingin, Mariko, Yukio, and the Hand dammit!

Omega Red first

 

[Legion]

I want Omega Red. He would have been a better choice for the final villain of this movie than Deadpool.