Since DCEU copies MCU as much as they can,will they do a black lead like Blk Panther?

[Knight-Tale]

They are really behind Marvel in terms of black characters they can push
Normally they would do something easy and choose John Stewart GL and call it a day but apparently Hal Jordan has to be the main GL in everything so that's already a problem

Now you have Cyborg who wasn't so popular in JL

Then you finally reach other characters like Vixen and Black Lightning(has a great tv show so he'll be unlikely to show up in the dceu)

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

And I don't see another Steel movie coming.

 

[2kt09]

It's going to be the next Suicide Squad movie anyways where they bring in as much as they can. Think it was rumored at one point that Bronze Tiger or Vixen would pop up there.

 

[jmc]

I’m with you on this. It was silly to put all that pressure on cyborg. He shines so much brighter as a Titan. And it was unforgivable for him to replace Martian Manhunter. If anything, John should’ve replaced Hal, and the original 7 would be pretty much intact

I actually would have gone for the JL animated series line up of characters, replacing Aquaman with Hawkgirl.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I actually would have gone for the JL animated series line up of characters, replacing Aquaman with Hawkgirl.

I'd like to have seen that lineup. Nothing against Momoa but if they'd gone with the DCAU League from the outset I'd have been happy.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

It's going to be the next Suicide Squad movie anyways where they bring in as much as they can. Think it was rumored at one point that Bronze Tiger or Vixen would pop up there.

Bronze Tiger could be pretty cool.

 

[InfinityWar]

Are ppl in this thread really trying to pretend DCEU doesnt copy MCU ?

 

[RomanticPenguin]

you have to be more specific then

like when you say they copied the MCU humour then which jokes/gags? is the DCEU allowed humour without being seen as copying the MCU in your mind? or do you mean gags like flash falling on top of WW copying AoU or something? (which would be whedon copying himself)

you mentioned post credits scenes even though MarvelStudios didn't invent them. is the DCEU allowed post credits scenes? shouldn't they imitate the good ideas if they compliment the movies and marvel vice-versa like how Superman 1 influenced some directors of these movies?

if as the title states the DCEU is copying the MCU as much as they possibly can then why have they had 3 movies led by diversity so early on? (SS/WW/AM)

and what do you mean by cross over stuff? like the idea of a team up?

like I said you need to be more specific

 

[Flint Marko]

This thread title is misleading. It's less of WB/DC "copying Marvel as much as they can" and more or less them reacting to their failures and Marvel's success.

2010, Geoff Johns: "We're not going to do a cinematic universe because our characters are bigger than that".

2011, Green Lantern is clearly a cheap Iron Man rip-off meant to set up another cinematic universe.

June 2012, a month after the Avengers premiere, WB: "We're officially announcing a Justice League movie!"

Zack Snyder: "My Superman movie is going to be set apart from the planned Justice League movie."

2013, Man of Steel underwhelms so they kick their shared cinematic universe into overdrive, throw Batman into the mix, and bog down the already incoherent BvS with nonsensical world-building in an attempt to quickly catch up to Marvel.

Spring 2016, Suicide Squad switches things up entirely from it's first teaser trailer to look and feel exactly like a cheap Guardians of the Galaxy rip-off.

2017, they wave the white flag entirely and bring in the man behind the Avengers to make a cheap Avengers rip-off.

The problem isn't that they're "copying Marvel", it's that they don't really have (and never really had) a solid plan in place.

That said.... yeah, I fully expect WB to put a black superhero film at the top of their list once BP comes out and smashes all the records. And you know what? I'm fine with that.

 

[honestbharani]

Also, I dont think the earlier poster was quite accurate about Marvel comics copying DC characters. As far as I have read, it seemed like both companies ripped off each others' characters a LOT of the time. Its not some kind of clear cut "A always rips off B" situation here. I dont think DCEU copies everything MCU does. But as Flint pointed out above, they always "react" to what MCU does. And its not even a MCU and DCEU thing. Movie studios always react to one another's success. "Saw" was a big hit, look at all the slasher films suddenly all studios wanted to put out. Its really silly to call it something due to these CB SH films or those companies. This trend of copying what works for one film/studio is as old as Hollywood itself. If DC creates a megahit out of Shazam, I am sure folks at Disney will check with Feige if they have an equivalent child hero character. That is just how movie studios work. Please, lets at least make THIS not a Marvel Vs DC thing.

 

[Flint Marko]

Also, I dont think the earlier poster was quite accurate about Marvel comics copying DC characters. As far as I have read, it seemed like both companies ripped off each others' characters a LOT of the time. Its not some kind of clear cut "A always rips off B" situation here. I dont think DCEU copies everything MCU does. But as Flint pointed out above, they always "react" to what MCU does. And its not even a MCU and DCEU thing. Movie studios always react to one another's success. "Saw" was a big hit, look at all the slasher films suddenly all studios wanted to put out. Its really silly to call it something due to these CB SH films or those companies. This trend of copying what works for one film/studio is as old as Hollywood itself. If DC creates a megahit out of Shazam, I am sure folks at Disney will check with Feige if they have an equivalent child hero character. That is just how movie studios work. Please, lets at least make THIS not a Marvel Vs DC thing.

Exactly.

The Fantastic Four was a reaction to the Justice League. Thanos was a reaction to Darkseid. Deadpool was a straight parody of Deadshot.

These things have been happening in comics for decades. It's nothing new there, just like it's nothing new for Hollywood to see what's working and immediately milk the cashcow dry for all it's worth. Just look at the shared cinematic universe trend for the most recent example of this.

I'd be fine with DC/WB mainly just reacting to things if they ever learned the right lessons and built an actual plan from it. The problem is they haven't - "Green Lantern didn't work? I guess people don't want light and fun! Oh crap, BvS didn't work? Back to light and fun!"

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Deadpool was a parody of Deathstroke, not Deadshot.

 

[RomanticPenguin]

 

[brandeezy89]

Vixen is more of a BP comparison than Cyborg

 

[semper]

Cyborg wasn't just chosen to be DCEU's premiere "black hero". He was chosen because a lot of the creatives behind the DCEU (Snyder, Goyer), openly expressed disdain for The Martian Manhunter.

I've read interviews where they dismissed Manhunter as a goofy character. I suspect the people in charge of the comics started giving Manhunters Justice League role in the comics to Cyborg a few years back, because they knew the movie guys had no interest in using Manhunter. Manhunter was the heart and soul of the League for decades. The one constant in ever-changing line-ups, even when the big guns disappeared. Yet the movie guys think he's a big green joke.

And that's the DCEU's problem in a nutshell. They gave the keys to the kingdom to a bunch of guys who are embarrassed by many of the concepts, characters and properties. Cyborg is a bit more "realistic" and "cool" than a big green goofy Martian, so the movie guys wanted him instead. Being a black character to make the line-up more diverse was an added bonus, but Cyborg is there because the movie guys hate the Martian Manhunter.

 

[The Guard]

Cyborg wasn't just chosen to be DCEU's premiere "black hero". He was chosen because a lot of the creatives behind the DCEU (Snyder, Goyer), openly expressed disdain for The Martian Manhunter.

I've read interviews where they dismissed Manhunter as a goofy character. I suspect the people in charge of the comics started giving Manhunters Justice League role in the comics to Cyborg a few years back, because they knew the movie guys had no interest in using Manhunter. Manhunter was the heart and soul of the League for decades. The one constant in ever-changing line-ups, even when the big guns disappeared. Yet the movie guys think he's a big green joke.

And that's the DCEU's problem in a nutshell. They gave the keys to the kingdom to a bunch of guys who are embarrassed by many of the concepts, characters and properties. Cyborg is a bit more "realistic" and "cool" than a big green goofy Martian, so the movie guys wanted him instead. Being a black character to make the line-up more diverse was an added bonus, but Cyborg is there because the movie guys hate the Martian Manhunter.

I’m sure it has nothing to do with his race, his techno-appeal, Geoff Johns and the fact that in the most recent incarnations of the league, Cyborg is a founding/original member.

 

[jmc]

I'd like to have seen that lineup. Nothing against Momoa but if they'd gone with the DCAU League from the outset I'd have been happy.

I think most people would have been. The issue for me with JL is that it ultimately never felt like JL. Without Superman and GL it's not the same. But at the end of the day I don't know whether switching to the JL animated roster or the traditional roster would have solved anything. The thing I take away from live action JL is there are too many characters with overlapping powers sets. Compare that to Avengers where there's a more even spread of skills throughout the roster.

 

[semper]

I’m sure it has nothing to do with his race, his techno-appeal, Geoff Johns and the fact that in the most recent incarnations of the league, Cyborg is a founding/original member.

Johns has been part of the movie braintrust for awhile (he was an executive producer on the screen abomination of the Green Lantern movie). Johns has always sucked up to people like Goyer and Snyder, because he's always wanted to be a movie guy as well.

When the likes of Snyder and Goyer were laughing in his face about Manhunter being a green dork that they'd avoid using in this DCEU they were creating, I suspect was Johns bright idea to use Cyborg as a founding member in his Justice League comic retcon. To appease his movie masters. And avoid a fan backlash.

GEOFF: Hey guys, I know you think Martian Manhunter sucks, but we can switch him up in the comics with this cool black Robocop character, that has made techno appeal. And then you can use him in the movies, and none of the fanboys will complain. Whddaya think Zack?

ZACK: Great idea Geoff. do it.

 

[honestbharani]

I think most people would have been. The issue for me with JL is that it ultimately never felt like JL. Without Superman and GL it's not the same. But at the end of the day I don't know whether switching to the JL animated roster or the traditional roster would have solved anything. The thing I take away from live action JL is there are too many characters with overlapping powers sets. Compare that to Avengers where there's a more even spread of skills throughout the roster.

Yeah, you can't really imagine a shot like when Cap was giving out the gameplan during the battle of New York, can you? I mean, maybe Batman or Wonder Woman can go "Flash save these people as you can reach them fastest" and then Supes will be all "Excuse me, I can reach there faster than him and I can carry more people with me.."

 

[DrCosmic]

I’m sure it has nothing to do with his race, his techno-appeal, Geoff Johns and the fact that in the most recent incarnations of the league, Cyborg is a founding/original member.

That's a huge part of it.

Sorry semper, I'm not buying your storyline. It's a cool theory, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of it at al.

I think most people would have been. The issue for me with JL is that it ultimately never felt like JL. Without Superman and GL it's not the same. But at the end of the day I don't know whether switching to the JL animated roster or the traditional roster would have solved anything. The thing I take away from live action JL is there are too many characters with overlapping powers sets. Compare that to Avengers where there's a more even spread of skills throughout the roster.

I sure would have been happy with that lineup. Duffie and Timm were ahead of their time. Man.

That said, I think this plays into why MM couldn't be used. His powerset overlaps a lot, and having extra stuff on top of that may spread the team's powerset wider, but makes him as an individual super OP. They already had to bench Superman for Flash to get some shine time. MM would have been even worse.

Avengers still has a lot of overlap with martial arts combat and super strength, but their lack of individual mobility means that you can isolate those things a lot more easily. If you have two objectives that require super strength, you need two bricks. If you have two objectives that require super speed, you only need one speedster.

Vixen is more of a BP comparison than Cyborg

I would really dig a Vixen movie. I know she's had some appearances on the CW, but... they don't do much with her anyway. Let's go big.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Johns has been part of the movie braintrust for awhile (he was an executive producer on the screen abomination of the Green Lantern movie). Johns has always sucked up to people like Goyer and Snyder, because he's always wanted to be a movie guy as well.

When the likes of Snyder and Goyer were laughing in his face about Manhunter being a green dork that they'd avoid using in this DCEU they were creating, I suspect was Johns bright idea to use Cyborg as a founding member in his Justice League comic retcon. To appease his movie masters. And avoid a fan backlash.

GEOFF: Hey guys, I know you think Martian Manhunter sucks, but we can switch him up in the comics with this cool black Robocop character, that has made techno appeal. And then you can use him in the movies, and none of the fanboys will complain. Whddaya think Zack?

ZACK: Great idea Geoff. do it.

WoW a post with so much conjecture and personal bias I can't even comment.

 

[The Guard]

Johns has been part of the movie braintrust for awhile (he was an executive producer on the screen abomination of the Green Lantern movie). Johns has always sucked up to people like Goyer and Snyder, because he's always wanted to be a movie guy as well.

Johns was a movie guy before he was a comics guy.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

John Stewart led Green Lantern could be a good idea coz they can then nail both the Black Hero Led as well as the Space Opera ideas in one movie. But they got to get the right creatives in.

I feel like this was the argument in the early days of the first GL movie that got shouted down cause,

"Hal was the first GL, gotta be like the comics!"-Net nerds.

 

[The Batman]

Ideally, Static would be DC/WB's choice for a black lead character. Unfortunately, I think there'll always be some sort of ownership or licensing issue that'll hold the character back from getting the push he deserves.

Black Lightning would be a good pick as well. I think DC have resolved the rights issues for that. Not sure they'd allow BL to have a movie while the TV show is on the air. They seem to be selective with which characters are allowed to be in both movies and TV shows concurrently.

John Stewart is definitely an overrated option. The man is no more or less interesting than Hal, but he gets put on a bit of a pedestal because he happened to be in one great, popular cartoon. Still, while John is an overrated option, he is the safest one.

 

[MbJ]

Cyborg wasn't just chosen to be DCEU's premiere "black hero". He was chosen because a lot of the creatives behind the DCEU (Snyder, Goyer), openly expressed disdain for The Martian Manhunter.

I've read interviews where they dismissed Manhunter as a goofy character. I suspect the people in charge of the comics started giving Manhunters Justice League role in the comics to Cyborg a few years back, because they knew the movie guys had no interest in using Manhunter. Manhunter was the heart and soul of the League for decades. The one constant in ever-changing line-ups, even when the big guns disappeared. Yet the movie guys think he's a big green joke.

And that's the DCEU's problem in a nutshell. They gave the keys to the kingdom to a bunch of guys who are embarrassed by many of the concepts, characters and properties. Cyborg is a bit more "realistic" and "cool" than a big green goofy Martian, so the movie guys wanted him instead. Being a black character to make the line-up more diverse was an added bonus, but Cyborg is there because the movie guys hate the Martian Manhunter.

The whole Cyborg thing predates the DCEU though. It goes back to the New 52, where the Justice League's origin was retconned so that Cyborg was now the 7th founder instead of J'onn. That subsequently carried over into almost every medium based on DC, with Cyborg now being the seventh member of the team in all their straight-to-DVD animated flicks and a lot of the video games as well. Merchandise as well.

This was the new image of the Justice League WB/DC had been pushing since 2011, and the movie was just the culmination of that effort.

So given that, I do have to think it came down to race. When DC and WB were rebooting their universe, I'm sure they thought it'd make sense to have the Justice League be more racially diverse, and Cyborg was their choice. He's probably one of DC's most popular black heroes, with the two above him being John Stewart (who they weren't gonna use because WB/DC were hugely pushing Hal Jordan as their next big superstar back then, complete with his ill-fated solo movie) and Static (who isn't owned by DC, but is licensed from the McDuffie estate, I believe).

The problem is, Cyborg is not a leading character and has never successfully been. Even when he was retconned into being a founder, he was the only member of the team without his own ongoing book.