Since DCEU copies MCU as much as they can,will they do a black lead like Blk Panther?

[CLARKY]

At this point, would you really bet against Marvel though?

I can easily see a scenario where all the elements fall into place (great trailer, killer promo tour, great reviews) and Captain Marvel outgrosses Wonder Woman.

Marvel does this time and time again.

It's not about betting, I assume. Not with this kind of secondary character. Ant-Man was not the biggest hit ever. I'm not expecting Captain Marvel to go big.Which is fineof course, because I don't think every movie should earn a billion.I hopeit's good, whatever that means.

 

[The Guard]

Could have?

This. SPAWN was also in 1997. BLADE also beat BLACK PANTHER to the punch.

And M.A.N.T.I.S aired way back in 1994.

 

[MbJ]

I think we can bet on WB retooling their Green Lantern Corps concept as we speak. After this past weekend, you bet your ass that John Stewart will be front and center in the next Green Lantern movie.

I feel silly for how hard I fanboyed over Hal Jordan over the years. He's a more developed character because there was a serious initiative over the years to place most of the attention and development upon him. But John, with the right creative team, can be just as strong of a character as Hal.

I want to apologize for how heated I got about my love for Hal Jordan. I love him as a character and still think the Geoff Johns run is the best thing that ever happened to any Green Lantern, but Hal just isn't the guy to lead the franchise.

John is. I have no doubt about that now.

Honestly, he would have far more cultural importance than Hal Jordan could ever have. Unfortunately, black superheroes are majorly underrepresented in the media. John is THE standout black superhero in DC. DC has a million average white superheroes, Hal probably wouldn't really even catch on or stand out. John can be so much more than that.

The fact that they are supposedly looking at older actors to play Hal really does make me believe they're gonna be heavily pushing John.

 

[Flint Marko]

Considering how insanely big Black Panther has proven to be, it’s likely that the stink of the DCEU hindered WW’s box office in some way. That’s not to discredit how well that movie did but how much better would it have done if the DCEU were even half as successful and beloved as the MCU? I know this has been discussed before, but I’d be curious to know how much bigger the final tally would be.

 

[writer0327]

Considering how insanely big Black Panther has proven to be, it’s likely that the stink of the DCEU hindered WW’s box office in some way. That’s not to discredit how well that movie did but how much better would it have done if the DCEU were even half as successful and beloved as the MCU? I know this has been discussed before, but I’d be curious to know how much bigger the final tally would be.

Success begets more success. The Brand is one of the biggest reasons that BP is doing gangbusters. If the DCEU brand had been even marginally good, WW might have had a much bigger tally.

I always felt one of the biggest problems with the DCEU is they were slow in production and cranking out films into the marketplace. Black Panther is film #18 in the MCU. WW was the 4th film in the DCEU. DC should have been on a 2-films-a-year production tilt immediately after MoS, but they were slow to move and slow to react. The fact that we never got a true MoS sequel was alarming and disappointing, and that lack of branded product in the marketplace allowed the MCU to blow right past the DCEU, despite having less recognizable characters. The MCU brand is so strong, I would bet any film that they put a reasonable amount of effort into will break $600M without much trouble.

 

[2kt09]

Success begets more success. The Brand is one of the biggest reasons that BP is doing gangbusters. If the DCEU brand had been even marginally good, WW might have had a much bigger tally.

I always felt one of the biggest problems with the DCEU is they were slow in production and cranking out films into the marketplace. Black Panther is film #18 in the MCU. WW was the 4th film in the DCEU. DC should have been on a 2-films-a-year production tilt immediately after MoS, but they were slow to move and slow to react. The fact that we never got a true MoS sequel was alarming and disappointing, and that lack of branded product in the marketplace allowed the MCU to blow right past the DCEU, despite having less recognizable characters. The MCU brand is so strong, I would bet any film that they put a reasonable amount of effort into will break $600M without much trouble.

So, is it rushed or not rushed?
In 2 movies, the DCEU already crossed the 1.5 billion dollar mark with BvS being the first cbm since Spider-Man 3 to do over $800 mil yet under 1 bil.

Black Panther being the same movie it is, marketed just as is, without the MCU brand would still do gangbusters.

 

[writer0327]

So, is it rushed or not rushed?

Well, its both. We're talking about two different things. Within the narrative itself and within the business of building up the DCEU brand.

Narratively, the DCEU rushed to have a fully actualized cinematic universe. Instead of building a series of standalone films and finally teaming up in Film 6, they jumped straight to the team up movie in Film 2.

When what they should have done is put out more product for consumer consumption and building a brand. Something like...

MoS 2013
Batman 2014
Flash 2014
GL 2015
WW 2015
MoS2 2016
JL 2016

WB/DC had the resources to produce 7 films within the same timespan that they produced 2. That's the problem with the DCEU brand.

In 2 movies, the DCEU already crossed the 1.5 billion dollar mark with BvS being the first cbm since Spider-Man 3 to do over $800 mil yet under 1 bil.

Big names, big properties, but underwhelming overall. BvS as a film probably did the most damage to the brand out of all the DCEU's 5 films.

Black Panther being the same movie it is, marketed just as is, without the MCU brand would still do gangbusters.

Perhaps, although I doubt that Black Panther would have been made, much less be a $1B movie, without the MCU brand.

 

[2kt09]

Well, it's both. We're talking about two different things. Within the narrative itself and within the business of building up the DCEU brand.

Narratively, the DCEU rushed to have a fully actualized cinematic universe. Instead of building a series of standalone films and finally teaming up in Film 6, they jumped straight to the team up movie in Film 2.

When what they should have done is put out more product for consumer consumption and building a brand. Something like...

MoS 2013
Batman 2014
Flash 2014
GL 2015
WW 2015
MoS2 2016
JL 2016

WB/DC had the resources to produce 7 films within the same timespan that they produced 2. That's the problem with the DCEU brand.



Big names, big properties, but underwhelming overall. BvS as a film probably did the most damage to the brand out of all the DCEU's 5 films.



Perhaps, although I doubt that Black Panther would have been made, much less be a $1B movie, without the MCU brand.

I legit just kept tracking all the merchandising and what would would appeal to whom throughout Black Panther. It would have still done insanely well.

No duh on big names and big properties...which is exactly why they could do what they have done, but something like Suicide Squad should have taken the hit given it was that bad. Instead JL did because it wasn't offering anything new whatsoever in a landscape that's constantly demanding refreshing takes or not yet to be realized gimmicks.

Going by thread title and somewhat saliently related topic, they've been following MCU's direction as to how to: phase one. They just didn't have that Reynold's Green Lantern mirroring TiH included into the slate and got the chance to do a side adventure with cameos from familiar heroes and villains.

 

[Batmannerism]

Black Panther is more than just a film with a black lead, African cultural references are an essential part of the character and story.

It's successful in part because it explores those references in an iteresting way that engages with audiences, but also because it's well written, well directed, and well acted - it has stakes but doesn't take itself too seriously.

If DC could put out a film with those things, it wouldnt matter if the lead was a man, woman, black, white, asian, latino...or from Mars !

Having said that DC certainly could have more diverse leads in their films, and make them good, a John Stewart GL film could be great. Idris Elba might have a bit of free time after Ragnarok.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

I'd take the culture argument out of it entirely and say I don't expect any other black superhero film to match Black Panther's box office gross period, whether that be Cyborg, Green Lantern, Vixen or Static.

Black Panther is lightning in a bottle right now. Nobody thought it would break this big.

You're probably right.

 

[MbJ]

There aren't very many characters DC has that I imagine could actually talk about race in a manner like the Black Panther movie, other than Steel. It actually makes me wonder if they are considering going with John Stewart's initial, politically active characterization for the movie, rather than his more gruff, military portrayal from later depictions.

 

[Grommers]

Even when DCEU tries to do their own black super hero lead, it will not nearly hit as big as Black Panther. Black Panther was so rooted in Africa and the message resonated so well with the black folks. Besides the tech, the film was grounded in reality. Green Lantern is so sci fi and all about space stuff. It wont have any African culture or african roots like Black Panther.

I don't think this is brought up enough, what made black panther interesting too me was the very different visuals, culture setting, and the fact that it became a little bit more meatier than the average marvel film.

On top of having a black lead hitting the other side of the coin, it's well put together film.


I don't think a black american super hero would have done nearly as well, as I do think a big selling point of this film was the different visuals, culture expressed, and the fact that it had too loosely touch upon political issues.

And for the people who liked entertaining movies, hey its the first african super hero. Thats pretty cool to say too.

DC's closest character will be Aquaman too BP, in that it can deal with race relations, have a non-white lead, and have too touch upon some sort of politics and deeper meaning given that he's a king (much like BP) but other super heroes get around.

Black panther is a very unique character in that sense compared too most of DC's rosters, do I think there will be a black lead DC movie? Sure, I don't see why not, whether its GL, Cyborg, or they make a some what known character like spectre, hawkgirl, or Connor Hawke, film, almost none of these are routed in African culture.

Is there a push in general for diversity in comics? Yes, so I don't think it's DC copying Marvel.

 

[The Guard]

There aren't very many characters DC has that I imagine could actually talk about race in a manner like the Black Panther movie, other than Steel. It actually makes me wonder if they are considering going with John Stewart's initial, politically active characterization for the movie, rather than his more gruff, military portrayal from later depictions.

Not in the sense of the African heritage, but there are several who could be used to explore relevant race and social issues.

In particular, Cyborg lives in Detroit, and there's a good bit of race relations exploration in his comics of late.

John Stewart could easily be a former military man who is politically active, and while I don't see that being the focus of a Green Lantern Corps movie, maybe it could be touched on throughout the use of the Corps as an intergalactic "police force".

 

[Set]

I get so self-hyped to someday see someone like Vixen on the big-screen that I sometimes totally forget all those diverse Wildstorm characters that DC owns now.

Battalion (Jackson King) is a pretty amazing character, as are Serge, Flint, Voodoo and Frostbite, as well as other diverse characters like Swift, Rainmaker, Fuji and Grunge.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I get so self-hyped to someday see someone like Vixen on the big-screen that I sometimes totally forget all those diverse Wildstorm characters that DC owns now.

Battalion (Jackson King) is a pretty amazing character, as are Serge, Flint, Voodoo and Frostbite, as well as other diverse characters like Swift, Rainmaker, Fuji and Grunge.

Have you seen the Vixen animated shorts that are canon to the Arrowverse, later released as Vixen: The Movie? I'd love to see something like that as a live action big-screen movie.

 

[Raiden]

So, is it rushed or not rushed?
In 2 movies, the DCEU already crossed the 1.5 billion dollar mark with BvS being the first cbm since Spider-Man 3 to do over $800 mil yet under 1 bil.

Black Panther being the same movie it is, marketed just as is, without the MCU brand would still do gangbusters.

WB has been using their Trinity from the get-go; MOS (Superman), BVS (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman), WW (Wonder Woman), and JL (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman). Those household names naturally garnered them huge box office early on, but after BVS they start to have lower OW (WW had insane legs to salvage it), and JL couldn't even break 800 mil WW.

MCU is different; they built their foundation without Spider-Man and X-Men, relying on B or C list characters instead, and gradually gain brand recognition until The Avengers, when it exploded for over 1 billion WW and established MCU to where its at today.

Now that WB has failed with JL, it'd be interesting to see if they will do a reverse MCU; re-establishing their cinematic universe without their Big Three and instead building their brand integrity through their lesser known characters.

 

[Limonade]

WB has been using their Trinity from the get-go; MOS (Superman), BVS (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman), WW (Wonder Woman), and JL (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman). Those household names naturally garnered them huge box office early on, but after BVS they start to have lower OW (WW had insane legs to salvage it), and JL couldn't even break 800 mil WW.

MCU is different; they built their foundation without Spider-Man and X-Men, relying on B or C list characters instead, and gradually gain brand recognition until The Avengers, when it exploded for over 1 billion WW and established MCU to where its at today.

Now that WB has failed with JL, it'd be interesting to see if they will do a reverse MCU; re-establishing their cinematic universe without their Big Three and instead building their brand integrity through their lesser known characters.

They definitely wouldn't be in the cuffs for a huge budget with lesser known characters, that's for sure.

Characters like Supes, Batman, and WW--I feel would require a bit more openness to write a bigger check for production and post. However, I hope WB considers the script first before opening their wallets next time.

 

[2kt09]

WB has been using their Trinity from the get-go; MOS (Superman), BVS (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman), WW (Wonder Woman), and JL (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman). Those household names naturally garnered them huge box office early on, but after BVS they start to have lower OW (WW had insane legs to salvage it), and JL couldn't even break 800 mil WW.

MCU is different; they built their foundation without Spider-Man and X-Men, relying on B or C list characters instead, and gradually gain brand recognition until The Avengers, when it exploded for over 1 billion WW and established MCU to where its at today.

Now that WB has failed with JL, it'd be interesting to see if they will do a reverse MCU; re-establishing their cinematic universe without their Big Three and instead building their brand integrity through their lesser known characters.

They built that foundation on as many founding members as they could.
Their trinity which spawned trilogies - Iron Man, Cap, Thor

I certainly would much rather they (MCU/DCEU) continue to establish the lesser knowns since people are well aware of the other guys' stories and are willing to show up for something like Skwad & WW. It won't matter for the black solo they choose to focus on if the movie is anywhere near as messed up as JL.