Comics "Sins Past" Question...

[Dangerous]

Would you have liked it had Sarah & Gabriel been Peter's kids,

No, I would have preferred if they were Gwen/Osborn test tube babies created using samples of Gwen's DNA courtesy of Dr Miles Warren.

& Gwen never slept w/Norman at all?

Yes Obviously, the worst thing about SP is the Gwen Norman thing.

 

[Cyclops]

It was a bad idea made even worse. I was intrigued at first, really. I thought they were Peter's kids, artificially aged somehow... but the end result...

It's just so mind-numbingly stupid. Unbelievably unbearably mind-numbingly stupid.

 

[bulok]

wasn't the real Gwen, it was the clones. I don't care what you say, "I'm not lis'nin, I'm ont lis'nin"

 

[Dragon]

For the most part, I agree with Shin's post, as always. Good points as usual, buddy.

However, if I were forced to choose between Gabe and Sarah being Peter's kids or Norman's kids, with no third option, I would choose Norman's - now, bear with me here.

Normally I would choose Peter's, but there is absolutely NO WAY to fit Gwen being pregnant in those old issues, no matter how you slice it. Even if you concede that the two slept together (which I'm fairly positive they did), it's hard to accept that she could have been pregnant at all in that time.

I would choose Norman on the stipulation that, at the end of the arc, we discovered it was just a big mind-**** at Peter. In Sins Past Part 6, we would discover that while Gabe and Sarah were technically genetic offspring of Norman and Gwen, they were actually created in a lab by Miles Warren using DNA of the two, and Norman and Gwen never slept together.

IMO, that would have been far better than would we had gotten, and it keeps JMS' precious "Grey Goblin" in continuity as well.

Your explanation is certainly plausible.

But then, as I'd mentioned above, there is a reasonable window for Gwen and Peter to have had the kids.

The major problem with Osborn being the father is that the only time for an affair between him and Gwen to have happened was if it was around ASM 61-66, when Peter and Gwen wre on the outs. So, Gwen would have been showing signs of pregancy circa ASM #83, when she was in the hospital. It simply didn't ring true that during that period she was all lovey-dovey with Peter and carrying Osborn's demon seeds.

But it is reasonable as I'd mentioned that she might have gotten pregnant by Peter around ASM#80 or so (When they reconciled after the Flash thing, and had make-up sex). Then around ASM #90 Gwen learns she's pregnant (Say about 3 months)- she flies to England and has the kids there, then Arthur and his wife watch the kids while Gwen tries to figure a way to break it to Peter. Of course, to generate intrigue for a superhero story, it might be better that Gwen make a more "mysterious" choice as to her children's caretakers and creating the opportunity for Osborn to get to them. Although wasn't also retconned that Arthur at one point worked for Osborn? One could even reasonably retcon Gwen making short trips back to England to see them between ASM#99-120.

 

[Dangerous]

I said from the beginning the only way it would have ever been legit was if they were lab creatures created by Osborn using his and Gwen's DNA collected by Warren.
That would be the best way to fix it in the future.

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

But it is reasonable as I'd mentioned that she might have gotten pregnant by Peter around ASM#80 or so (When they reconciled after the Flash thing, and had make-up sex). Then around ASM #90 Gwen learns she's pregnant (Say about 3 months)- she flies to England and has the kids there, then Arthur and his wife watch the kids while Gwen tries to figure a way to break it to Peter. Of course, to generate intrigue for a superhero story, it might be better that Gwen make a more "mysterious" choice as to her children's caretakers and creating the opportunity for Osborn to get to them. Although wasn't also retconned that Arthur at one point worked for Osborn? One could even reasonably retcon Gwen making short trips back to England to see them between ASM#99-120.

Hmmm...that's actually not a bad explanation, and I think that probably would have made the story readable if not outright enjoyable. I think my biggest pet peeve with the story is that it totally just blatantly disregarded continuity while still pretending that it was deeply rooted in it.

I think that's what bugs me the most. We can sit here and come up with these perfectly plasible explanations for this kind of stuff, and it's nothing that would have taken the "melodrama" out of the story - why can't the writers at Marvel?

 

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

Hmmm...that's actually not a bad explanation, and I think that probably would have made the story readable if not outright enjoyable. I think my biggest pet peeve with the story is that it totally just blatantly disregarded continuity while still pretending that it was deeply rooted in it.

I think that's what bugs me the most. We can sit here and come up with these perfectly plasible explanations for this kind of stuff, and it's nothing that would have taken the "melodrama" out of the story - why can't the writers at Marvel?

brubaker can.

 

[Doc Destruction]

I would have kind of dug it, honestly. Pete already HAS a daughter, so it wouldn't shock me that he had two more.

I thought that's the way we were headed and I was pretty psyched. So much for that.

 

[Captivated]

It was an incredibly stupid idea... making Gwen a mother. It made no sense for her to have slept with Norman in the first place and she could not have been pregnant in continuity. Making the kids Peter's would have not have improved the story one iota... in fact, IMO it would have the made the story even WORSE.

People went into this a little more in a not so long ago thread. It was announced that they will probably be reconning this story sooner than later:
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243512

 

[Donald Thomas]

I would have probably have gotten much more enjoyment out of it. Though it still wouldn't have fit into continuity what so ever. Which would have still bothered me intensely.

Aloha,
Do as I have done for years. If it dosen't fit into Silver and Bronze Age continuity-take it as an Out of Continuity Spidey story. Let's see how much if anything from Sins Past actually remains within the Spider-Man mythos down the line. IF IT DOSEN'T FIT-FORGETABOUTIT
Spidey rules

 

[Captivated]

Aloha,
Do as I have done for years. If it dosen't fit into Silver and Bronze Age continuity-take it as an Out of Continuity Spidey story. Let's see how much if anything from Sins Past actually remains within the Spider-Man mythos down the line. IF IT DOSEN'T FIT-FORGETABOUTIT
Spidey rules

Ha ha! I LIKE it!

That needs to be a common phrase... IF IT DOSEN'T FIT - FORGETABOUTIT!

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

brubaker can.

Sigh. Brubaker.

Love that guy.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Aloha,
Do as I have done for years. If it dosen't fit into Silver and Bronze Age continuity-take it as an Out of Continuity Spidey story. Let's see how much if anything from Sins Past actually remains within the Spider-Man mythos down the line. IF IT DOSEN'T FIT-FORGETABOUTIT
Spidey rules

I've already done that. And with The Other as well. Now if only others would follow the lead.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

The whole thing should have been a left-over Jackal plot. Or if they wanted the kids to belong to Gwen they should have done something with that Gwen clone. Something besides Norman doing the dirty.

*Simpson's chill.

 

[Citizen_Kaine]

Wouldn't have hated it as much, but it still would've been pretty stupid. Shouldn't have done the idea at all

 

[SouLeSS]

It was an incredibly stupid idea... making Gwen a mother. It made no sense for her to have slept with Norman in the first place and she could not have been pregnant in continuity. Making the kids Peter's would have not have improved the story one iota... in fact, IMO it would have the made the story even WORSE.

People went into this a little more in a not so long ago thread. It was announced that they will probably be reconning this story sooner than later:
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243512

I'de rather they not retcon it. Call me crazy, but theres good reason. I'de rather they just ignore that it ever existed. They've done that with plenty of stuff, why couldn't they do that with this as well? For them to go back and try and fix it, it will just bring the whole hatrid of it up more and again.

 

[Dragon]

I'de rather they not retcon it. Call me crazy, but theres good reason. I'de rather they just ignore that it ever existed. They've done that with plenty of stuff, why couldn't they do that with this as well? For them to go back and try and fix it, it will just bring the whole hatrid of it up more and again.

The reason they have to retcon it, aside from fan outrage, is that Gwen is an important part of Spider-Man 3. When non-fans do any research on Gwen, up pops Sins Past and her screwing the Goblin- the man who killed her- and that might effect response to the film.

 

[SpideyInATree]

There was also a storyline in Amazing Spider-Man years ago where Doctor Octopus almost MARRIED Aunt May.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

But he didn't, did he.


Hmm, imagine if that's all Sin's Past had been. Norman coming on to Gwen and her refusing him. With the same six issue (or whatever it was) build-up. The sadistic part of me wants to see that.

 

[Dragon]

There was also a storyline in Amazing Spider-Man years ago where Doctor Octopus almost MARRIED Aunt May.

I'd much rather that than SP. We never had to see any visuals of Ock and May in bed. Or even kissing thank God. That was just a scheme to bilk May out of ownership of a Nuclear plant.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

We never had to see any visuals of Ock and May in bed. Or even kissing thank God. That was just a scheme to bilk May out of ownership of a Nuclear plant.

* Visualizes it.


God damn it!