Comics So, I just finished reading Evil That Men Do

[UltimateWebhead]

Wow, this was a random bump.

I liked this mini. It wasn't the best Spidey story ever and the 3 year delay was really obnoxious, but looked back on now it was a solid story with beautiful artwork. I never understood the hate for it. I guess the delay caused some of that, but I think some people just hated on it because it was by Kevin Smith and they didn't like Black Cat's characterization. But compared to the crap Slott has done to Cat, it was gold. All the pre-BND Spidey storylines look better and better in retrospect with each passing year.

I was going to make a thread of my own covering this series since I just now recently read it but when doing a search, I came across this thread so I felt a new one wasn't needed.

I actually really liked Black Cat's characterization in this one. But imo most of the hate comes from either the unplanned hiatus or the topics involved i.e. rape. I can't remember if I read any fan reviews that placed the hate towards the fact that Kevin Smith wrote it. Though honestly, that wouldn't surprise me.

To the emboldened...agreed.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Reviews here suggest it is much better than what the long winded articles about "Worst Spider-Man stories" and "Worst Comics since the start of the century" make one believe.
That sounds good.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Reviews here suggest it is much better than what the long winded articles about "Worst Spider-Man stories" and "Worst Comics since the start of the century" make one believe.
That sounds good.

I definitely don't think ETMD fits into either of those categories and aside from the unplanned hiatus that pissed people off, I don't agree with the other criticisms.

 

[Vampfox]

I don't like it. The Black Cat didn't need rape added to her backstory.

 

[Venom 1988]

Its not the worst Spidey story ever, but its not great either. The hiatus didn't bother me (as I followed Planetary through its many breaks ), but the tone and direction of the story did seem to change between issue 3 and 4. Plus I think rape is a lazy story telling device in all mediums. Unless its something that is absolutely needed for a story, a majority of the time its just added on by a writer who thinks its "strong character development".

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I don't like it. The Black Cat didn't need rape added to her backstory.

Well, I'm not sure anyone needs rape. I can't recall ever seeing a demand from someone asking to be raped. That's ridiculous.

Its not the worst Spidey story ever, but its not great either. The hiatus didn't bother me (as I followed Planetary through its many breaks ), but the tone and direction of the story did seem to change between issue 3 and 4. Plus I think rape is a lazy story telling device in all mediums. Unless its something that is absolutely needed for a story, a majority of the time its just added on by a writer who thinks its "strong character development".

Oh yes, there is a clear tonal shift between issue #3 and issue #4. That's where I think the complaints about the hiatus are justified. Though it's difficult to say the story would have been any different without the prolonged time off. Maybe the transition from light to dark would have been dealt with better?? More smooth?? I dunno.

I don't agree that rape is a lazy device and I fail to see how rape is something that is absolutely needed for a story, meaning when it is used in a story the writer or writers sat down beforehand and said "oh yes, this character definitely needs some rape in their backstory because look at how it enhances everything." I think that seriously undermines the impact that rape has on someone.

More or less, I think people have an issue with rape because it such an uncomfortable topic to begin with and approaching it or wanting to talk about it, turns people off.

 

[Venom 1988]

I don't think you get what I'm saying. Obviously rape is bad no matter what.
What I mean by "absolutely needed" is the rape in question necessary for the story? Does it need to be there or is it just for shock/exploitation or failed character development? What you just said here....

I fail to see how rape is something that is absolutely needed for a story, meaning when it is used in a story the writer or writers sat down beforehand and said "oh yes, this character definitely needs some rape in their backstory because look at how it enhances everything." I think that seriously undermines the impact that rape has on someone.

...is essentially what a lot of writers do and is what I'm talking about. Absolutely it undermines the rape and as much as I like Kevin Smith, this story falls into this mindset IMO. Now Obviously I wasn't next to the man when he was writing this...but reading this story, I wouldn't be surprised

I don't care if there is rape in a comic but a majority of the time when I encounter it, its not needed.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I don't think you get what I'm saying. Obviously rape is bad no matter what.
What I mean by "absolutely needed" is the rape in question necessary for the story? Does it need to be there or is it just for shock/exploitation or failed character development? What you just said here....



...is essentially what a lot of writers do and is what I'm talking about. Absolutely it undermines the rape and as much as I like Kevin Smith, this story falls into this mindset IMO. Now Obviously I wasn't next to the man when he was writing this...but reading this story, I wouldn't be surprised

I don't care if there is rape in a comic but a majority of the time when I encounter it, its not needed.

I guess we just differ on this because, for me, the rape or at least the context of it within this story did not come across as shock fodder. The tonal shift itself was more of a shock than the actual topic. Because it was used in a way, imo, that added some good development to Felicia. The entire issue added some great development for her character...I especially enjoyed how it made her into something other than just 'eye-candy' as the story showed her maturation. Looked at her previous mistakes and learned from them by acknowledging what she did wrong and in some cases even had regret.

I don't ever think rape is a necessity for a story however there are stories which benefit from its use and those that don't. So, for you, it seems it fell more into the category of just trying to add shock value but for me I appreciated the development that her character went through and that particular topic aided in that development. I'm not surprised though, since prior to reading this story I'd read many reviews both critics and fan-based and it's very polarizing. Some think it worked and was great, others hated it.

To the emboldened...if I ever came across a writer that admitted he/she used rape in that context, it would be such a huge turn-off. Because as we agree, it does undermine everything associated with rape. Again, I don't feel like we got a dose of that within this story--it was written well imo.

 

[Venom 1988]

Well we agree for the most part. Just different strokes I guess for this particular story

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Well we agree for the most part. Just different strokes I guess for this particular story

 

[spider-neil]

Kevin Smith took ages to write this when he could have finished it in an afternoon, it actually reads like it was written in an afternoon.