So is Superman readable yet?

[The Leaguer]

Oh, bulls***. These are f***ing comic books. You'd have to be ******ed not to be able to come up with a situation that threatens him.

 

[Kitsune]

Oh, bulls***. These are f***ing comic books. You'd have to be ******ed not to be able to come up with a situation that threatens him.

Yes, but the more powerful the character, the harder it is to make a situation that doesn't seem contrived. If you don't believe me, watch the last few seasons of Dragon Ball Z.

 

[The Leaguer]

Right, because the only situations conceivable involve guys just like Superman, except stronger. Wow, why aren't you writing Superman yet?

 

[Kitsune]

Right, because the only situations conceivable involve guys just like Superman, except stronger. Wow, why aren't you writing Superman yet?

Wow a straw man argument... that's really clever. All I'm saying, is that the more powers you give a character, the harder it is to convincingly threaten him without doing that. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it makes Superman more challenging to write well.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Like it's been said, Action and All-Star are pretty good. Superman and Superman Confidential I am dropping.

I've never been a humongous Superman fan...but, I actually have a ton of Superman books, probably four or five long boxes. I bought a guys collection of 20 long boxes a couple years back for 500 bucks because he was moving to another state and didn't want to drag them along, and he collected a ton of DC; so, then I started to fill in the holes he had missing. I got into Superman with the whole Sacrifice story, and when OYL happened, both Superman and Action seemed really good. Plus, Superman Confidential had a great first bunch of issues...the problem was the writers/artists couldn't finish a storyline without a bunch of filler crap inbetween. (Superman Confidential still hasn't completed it's first five issues. They went in another tangent, and now it's just regular garbage.)

This seems to be DC's problem. We get something good, but it doesn't deliver consistently. Flash got really good until they killed off Impulse; now, the current storyline sucks balls. Wonder Woman was pretty good; then that writer couldn't commit to what she started...it started stinking, too. (Seriously, I thought Amazon's Attack was a highlight compared to seeing Diana Prince putting on glasses as a disquise.)

 

[The Leaguer]

Wow a straw man argument... that's really clever. All I'm saying, is that the more powers you give a character, the harder it is to convincingly threaten him without doing that. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it makes Superman more challenging to write well.

So... get a better writer.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Exactly. Or just focus on other aspects of the character besides power ratings. You can still tell good character stories that don't involve Superman punching someone in the jaw with enough force to shatter a planet--look at Rucka's AoS run or, even better, Action Comics #775.

 

[The Leaguer]

God, 775 was so f***ing good.

 

[Lord Voldemort]

I love how the "too powerful" argument has never made sense, yet so many people continue to cite it.

Too powerful is not the problem. It's the personality that goes with the powers. He never abuses them, not really. Its why the Sentry works, because he's always on tender hooks with his delicate mental balance.

What about All-Star Superman? Any thoughts?

 

[The Leaguer]

Sentry does not work at all. What a horrible, boring, stupid character.

 

[Kitsune]

So... get a better writer.

I don't work for DC

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Sentry does not work at all. What a horrible, boring, stupid character.

Yeah, I'd prefer a boyscout over someone so paralyzed with fear over his own power that he just sits around watching TV while people tear cities apart. The Sentry can be interesting, but he hasn't been since about halfway through Jenkins' second mini-series.

 

[yahman]

For Tomorrow is amazing, but you have to remember to focus on the dialogue. It can be thick and may take a bit more thought than the average "Superman smash!" story.

I thought it was a great story until the end, with the Zod and Kryptonian Paradise premise. It didn't really make any sense. Id love to see the writer doing an else world storyline as i l his 'carrying the world upon his shoulders' approach to the character. Id love him to do a Kingdome Come esq storyline involving Alex Ross.

IMO Superman ongoing storylines are a waste of time due to inconsistenty in writing. Superman esq characters can be written really well when not constrained by continuity. Take Alan Moores Supreme and Miracle man, JMS's Hyperion, Mark Waid Birthright and Morissons work on Allstar.

Some of my favourite storylines are Superman esq comics taken out of continuity.

 

[yahman]

Exactly. or, even better, Action Comics #775.

I read for the first time recently, and its possibly my favourite single issue of all time. Kelly is such an underated writer, i think his run on JLA did a really good job of continuing the legacy left by Morisson and Waid.

 

[The Leaguer]

Kelly's JLA run was better than Waid's, but not quite as good as Morrison's.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Kelly's was better than either of the former two, I've come to realize. "Trial by Fire" is possibly the greatest Martian Manhunter story ever.

 

[Aristotle]

How 'bout that Chuck Austen?

 

[The Leaguer]

Kelly's was better than either of the former two, I've come to realize. "Trial by Fire" is possibly the greatest Martian Manhunter story ever.

The latter is definitely true. The former is definitely not.

 

[DavidTyler]

.....................

IMO Superman ongoing storylines are a waste of time due to inconsistenty in writing. Superman esq characters can be written really well when not constrained by continuity. Take Alan Moores Supreme and Miracle man, JMS's Hyperion, Mark Waid Birthright and Morissons work on Allstar.

Some of my favourite storylines are Superman esq comics taken out of continuity.

I dissagree. I think there can be GREAT in-continuity stories if the continuity isn't set up with a lot of barriers to them. They way they did it back when Ordway, Louise Simonson, and the group were working on the books was to have major story arcs that ran consecutively with sub-story arcs. For example they could do a main story arc about ..oh, maybe Silver Banshee coming to take revenge on Cadmus or something while, in the meantime, we have a sub-plot going about Perry's adopted son. And when the one plot - sub or main - ends, a new one begins. Keeps you reading and it keeps it interesting. We don't need to have stories just about Superman or Lois. There's a whole cast to do stories about. They just don't need to be the main plot.

I remember the last sub-plot like that. It ended way too quickly and I always wish that they would revisit it. It involved the death of Cat Grant's son and how she spiralled down into alchoholism as a result. It was shaping up to be a great sub-plot and they pulled the plug on it too quickly. I think that's where the books started to go bland again.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The latter is definitely true. The former is definitely not.

Oh, were you talking about Morrison? Sorry, I tune everything you say about him out. It's just hard to understand it all, what with your lips' being firmly plastered to his pulsating manhood at all times.

 

[The Leaguer]

You know you want to be down here with me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

No, then I'd have to do stupid things like read Batman and pretend to enjoy it to save face.

 

[Aristotle]

Oh, you're just a silly-billy, Batman's been fine.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

In Detective Comics, yes.

 

[The Leaguer]

No, Detective Comics is been quite bad of late. The crap from Countdown is bleeding over into Detective.