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Discussion in 'DC Comics' started by Lord Voldemort, Dec 30, 2007.
You haven't actually read a Superman story before, have you? Most people with your opinion haven't.
Even in the Pre-Crisis era, there were enemies in Superman's own rogues gallery whose appearances weren't related whatsoever to any Crises, yet were still quite potentially life threatening to Superman. Even discounting enemies who use kryptonite or depowering abilities (like the Parasite or Metallo) who regularly fought a Pre-Crisis Superman who wasn't at the top of his game, there were still regular villains like Mongul and Neutron who were physically as strong or stronger (Neutron actually squarely defeated a fully powered Superman in his first appearance in 1981).
And that's just a regular member of Superman's rogues gallery, not some universe-threatening cosmic powerhouse.
Coming back to this, it bears pointing out that Superman is (at least in theory) supposed to be about more than beating up progressively more powerful villains. Dragonball Z's plot was always basically "here's a big tuff guy, and now Goku beats him up." So of course as it progressed, they had to get bigger and tuffer guys for Goku to beat up.
Superman (again, in theory) is supposed to be about a guy with fantastical abilities using those abilities to help and protect other people so there's more room for portraying challenges in line with that mission other than throwing a guy with bigger muscles at him.
I always thought Superman was the hardest character to write in comics. From when he was first created 70 years ago,i can imagine he's been written to do anything and everything. How can you do something different,when chances are he already did it..but is doing it again for like the second or third time?
The easiest way to counter this is to add new characters,but i bet there are many who have come and gone. Mostly forgotten or erased by the original Crisis..and yet people still buy the comic...mostly because of how iconic the character is.
Yeah, if Superman is anything it isn't overpowered, it's overwritten. There's a ton of great stories you can tell about Superman, it's just that many of those stories have been told.
Personally I blame copyright law.
But when superman returns tried to tap into the character of superman rather then big titanic battles you all hated it with a passion you cant have it both ways.
As someone said superman is almost too perfect he is unshakeably moral, can do Just about anything, and is a beacon of light and hope for earth he is almost a god. In the 40s that was fine when it was all "truth justice and the american way" but Heroes today are a different breed they are more human why is Batman DCS most popular hero? because he is very much human his heroism, flaws, loves, and drives are evident in every book you read on him why are the XMEN so popular? same, even though they are super powered and thier story of predudice is one readers can relate to. superman in comparison to batman is a empty shell of a character born decades ago to a different time but unlike batman he has barely changed since conception to most of the general public imo.
But hasnt Batman been written about almost (or more) as much? and he still seems fresh not every story is a gem but his good/bad ratio of storys are far better then superman.
Dude, it's one thing to tell a compelling story about superman without any titanic battles like, say, Superman: Secret identity, or Red Son, but it's a whole other thing to have him be a dead beat dad who runs out on his chick to go look at some space rocks. Seriously, read some s**t before you start spouting off. The basis of your argument is shrouded in ignorance.
As i said they tried to delve into his human side in SR it isnt perfect but they tried and what happend? you all roasted the film over an open fire i think the more human moments in the film where he is a lonely soul looking for a place to belong are the highlights of the movie over the big effects set pieces.
i'll roast SR for the casting, pacing, illogical actions, and the abundance of soulless flash, not necessarily for the story that was attempted.
for me, i've thought that Superman was a strong man that is a bit simple-minded and easily controlled mentally. that definitely leads into why i enjoy the two big Superman stories out right now, Action Comics and All-Star, becasue they place in "powerless" situations: trapped out of time in a red-sunned planet and dying, respectively.
Did you read the part of Anubis' post where he said that there's a difference between telling the emotional and heart felt Superman stories, and making him a guy who walks out on a woman without even saying goodbye?
I think the superman titles should be written like the all star title.
Out of continuity? That seems unlikely.
I guess this can go here...
Busiek's last Superman issue is in April
I bet complete rubbish takes over and with Johns on Action don't take my Superman monthly away from me DC.
I didn't like Johns or Busiek's take on Superman, so hopefully someone good'll take over the Superman title and I can finally get back to reading Superman comics.
That was one part of the movie, i didnt say it was perfect but the more human moments where he is a lonely soul in the universe is the best part of the movie for me as is the part where he tells louis he can hear the crys for help all the time. SR gets a lot of bad press but i think it is a great movie at least singer tried to make the story more relevent to todays audiences then the straight comic book form of reeves movies amazing as they where.
That's fine, it's just that you said:
And Spike was pointing out that the movie wasn't roasted because it had "more human moments where [Superman] is a lonely soul looking for a place to belong", they roasted it because it was badly casted and was premised on him behaving in a decidedly inhuman manner toward the woman he ostensibly loves and the child of theirs which she was then carrying, and various other things.
Exactly. There are ways to convey Superman's emotions and humanity without having him act in obviously un-Supermanish behavior.
If he and Lois had sex, then it can be assumed (based on what we think we know of Superman's personality (but since it's SR, even those presumptions could be way off)) that their relationship was quite close. If that was the case, then Superman was a complete dick not to even tell Lois where he was going for so long, let alone not say goodbye. If it were just a regular guy doing that to his girlfriend, he'd just be a real jerk; but since it's Superman, not only is he a real jerk, but he's also acting about as out-of-character as he possibly can.
And that's just one aspect of the story. There's also Superman spying on Lois and her family, Lex being a moron, and the fact that almost all of the steps in pacing are blatant re-workings of the first movie.
Then why does he draw everyone (particularly superman) to look like they have downs syndrome?
Seriously. I read through volume 1 of the authority and loved it, then as soon as quitley took over on art I just couldn't bring myself to read it anymore. He's that bad
I used to take the view of "superman's too powerful to ever be challenged etc" but having read my way through a few more trades I think the character is great.
Writing superman is easy if you actually take the time to think about the character and what it means to be superman.
Look at it this way. Supermans acute senses mean he knows pretty much 90% of what is going on at a given moment on the planet. That means that he's ALWAYS having to choose which disaster to avert. While he has superspeed if say he gets tied up in a fight in metropolis there are potentially hundreds of people all over the world dying that he could have saved. The boyscout persona reinforces this dilema because he's the kind of hero that literally want's to save everyone but he can't so he has to make insanely hard choices on a day to day basis.
Do you have any idea what it would be like to be god without being omniscient. That's what superman is, he's god but fallible. When the comics spend more time addressing the psychological aspect of this burden on superman the books are much better.
And by addressing I don't mean having superman crying like a little *****. There's a difference between guilt and emo teenager bull****
No, you're just that averse to his style. Style and storytelling are very distinct. I agree, his style isn't the most visually pleasing thing ever. People look somewhat wrinkly and gelatinous, everyone looks about ten years older than they should, etc. But Quitely can still tell a story better than most of the other artists working in the industry today. His artwork does an excellent job of really transporting you into the worlds he creates. Not many modern comic artists can say they same.
fair comment though I'd argue darick robertson is better in that sense
I would disagree. I think Quitely's a better storyteller, but Robertson's still very good.