Something missing...

[Sundancer]

Saw it last night, thought it was great.

But by the end it felt like something was missing. Then I realized--nothing had changed. The movie pretty much left off right where it began. Really no character growth, development, or change, even with each other.

I was talking about this with a friend, and it went something like this.


HIM: the Hulk became more compassionate. He didn't kill Abomination.

ME: No, he just calmed down when Betty jumped in. Like always.

HIM: Well, Ross had more respect for Banner.

ME: Did he? They didn't really show that.

HIM: OK. But at the end Banner decided he can't cure the Hulk, that he needs to live with it.

ME: Why wouldn't he try another cure? In case Ross screws up another experiment? I doubt it.

HIM: ....the movie still kicked ass.

ME: Yes, it did. Just saying ...


Did anyone see any character devlopemnt or growth? I don't know anything about the deleted scenes, or even what the arctic one that I've heard about is.

 

[Scooter]

Interesting observation. I would have to agree, for the most part.

 

[DACMAN]

I thought there was ALOT of change. Everyone saw, including Ross, that the HULK wasn't the bad guy. Betty and Bruce got together again (sort of) and Bruce seemed to be more in control of the HULK at the end (or at least more in peace with the HULK).

 

[FaT_tONle]

Exactly... there was no resolution to the story... it will only be cleared up in a sequel which may not happen.

 

[FrostBite]

Well... actually there was a lot of change, but the two biggies for me were:

-Ross's revelations. Does this mean he won't continue to hunt Hulk? Doubt it, the man is on a mission. But he does realize he tampered with forces he couldn't control and realized he was just as much a monster as the Hulk as can be seen by his reaction when the Hulk kicks Abomination towards him looking at him like "You did this..." and then of course the infamous drinking scene "reload!" he screams as his hair is disheveled and his face wrought with the look of guilt.

-From Mindless to Savage:

Hulk was essentially a mix between the mindless and savage hulk in this film. Sure he talked, but as Banner said it was completely uncontrollable. He went from rampaging and killing soldiers without a heart to the final battle where after a failed cure attempt he was able to "Steer" the Hulk towards a target. Where as Abomination flipped cars over, and ran towards people with disregard, it seemed as though Hulk was far more "careful" than in previous scenes and despite his hatred for the troops / Ross left them alone when Abomination was in the picture. And no, it wasn't just a "Who's got the bigger cajones" contest between them as in some scenes Hulk even rolled his eyes and his faced screamed "Really!? He's not down yet! Ugh... okay, here we go!"

I'd wager in the next movie we see him as more of a hero, and even if he DOES kill soldiers from time to time, I will bet anything Banner has more input on the beast's actions.

 

[Timmy]

The movie starts to fall apart once Banner meets Betty due to cuts and that their scenes are just amazingly boring.

 

[CaptainClown]

I always felt that the growth was that Banner has come to terms with his Hulk persona and sought to control it and make peace with that side instead of curing it.

 

[FrostBite]

The movie starts to fall apart once Banner meets Betty due to cuts and that their scenes are just amazingly boring.

Wow, -claps- I have to admit, your intelligence is staggering, and your ability to address the subject at hand is unmatched by no other.

 

[FaT_tONle]

I think Timmy has posted essentially the same thing about 59/60 posts...

 

[Mike_D202]

-Bruce went from hating the creature and trying to get rid of it, to living with it and controlling it at the end.

-Ross was a mixed bag. He was after it to capture it and study it to make more, then he was helping Bruce out towards the end. Him and his daughter seemed to patch some things up. I think now that Ross sees that Bruce can control it now, that it will make him want the Hulk even more so than before.

I dont understand how you couldnt see these things

 

[unstoppable]

I thought there was a lot of character developmen, mainly in Bruce Banner view on the Hulk. He went from trying to rid himself of it to making peace with it and trying to control it

 

[Ultraman Nexus]

I think the character completed a clear arc in the film. Everything he tried to do to cure it basically blew up in his face. Through what Betty said and what happens at the end of the movie he comes to be accepting of the idea that maybe he can find ways to control it instead of destroy it. Plus, Betty find there's more to the creature than his savageness.

What I'm hoping with this is that having completed this arc makes him a slightly more functional hero but that they don't start going into multiple Hulk personas and all that convoluted mess. Banner should not be portrayed as getting off on his power and the Hulk should be portrayed as evil.

Think of it as if Banner was to some degree a man at war with this aspect of himself he's now found a form of truce with the Hulk. Banner doesn't drive the Hulk but like he said in the movie maybe he can "aim it". This way we can still have the Hulk himself as a character and the situation can still be problematic for Banner but he's found some small measure of a way to live with it. It's still a burden but maybe he's a little better at carrying it now.

There was a quote on Wikipedia that said something to the effect of "Leterrier made the film's final shot ambiguous, so if there is not a sequel, the shot would instead indicate that in The Avengers Banner became a menace."

What I'm thinking may actually be the (better) case is that the Avengers are basically duped into viewing the Hulk as a menace because you *know* General Ross isn't going to give them the full truth and guys like Tony Stark wouldn't know much more about him either. So rather than play Hulk so much as a villan he's a force they're thrown up against by lies and misunderstanding but they discover the truth, leading Hulk to ally with the heroes of the Avengers from some smackdown on a real villan for the peice.

 

[Peyton Westlake]

I just saw it & have to say overall, was much better then 03's version. And you can argue either way which Hulk [ '03 or '08 ] was more savage. But this current Hulk was more savage in a way that he just kicked Emil Blonsky w/out any care of him dying and scenes with the army, didnt seem like he cared if he had to kill them if they were in his way. THAT is brutal. I havent seen Hulk '03 in awhile, but i dont remember him being that psychotic.

 

[Comicfan]

Saw it last night, thought it was great.

But by the end it felt like something was missing. Then I realized--nothing had changed. The movie pretty much left off right where it began. Really no character growth, development, or change, even with each other.

Just like the series

 

[FrostBite]

Just like the series

Correction: Just like nearly every comic book made by Marvel / DC. At least.. every western comic moves in circles. They make great progress and then just turn around and go back to the way things used to be.

 

[BatJeff7786]

Saw it last night, thought it was great.

But by the end it felt like something was missing. Then I realized--nothing had changed. The movie pretty much left off right where it began. Really no character growth, development, or change, even with each other.

I was talking about this with a friend, and it went something like this.


HIM: the Hulk became more compassionate. He didn't kill Abomination.

ME: No, he just calmed down when Betty jumped in. Like always.

HIM: Well, Ross had more respect for Banner.

ME: Did he? They didn't really show that.

HIM: OK. But at the end Banner decided he can't cure the Hulk, that he needs to live with it.

ME: Why wouldn't he try another cure? In case Ross screws up another experiment? I doubt it.

HIM: ....the movie still kicked ass.

ME: Yes, it did. Just saying ...


Did anyone see any character devlopemnt or growth? I don't know anything about the deleted scenes, or even what the arctic one that I've heard about is.

Agreed 100%.

 

[xero1186]

That's how the hulk has always been. He just wants to be left alone.

I personally find that TIH is best with crossovers. Having another hero in the picture adds a dynamic the Hulk lacks most of the time.

 

[Anubis Raptor]

Where was he at the end????

 

[The Guard]

There wasn't much character development. There was a story, but very little character development.

 

[Scooter]

Where was he at the end????

Canada. Talk about regression!

 

[hankpym]

One of the biggest changes from the earlier drafts to Norton's draft was cutting out some of the character arcs. This was mostly true for Bruce; he went from believing that the Hulk was an "evil" part of himself, to beginning to understand that the creature and him were linked, to ultimately realizing that he was just as good or bad as bruce was. In the end, he is not just trying to "control" the creature, he actually trusts him, and the creature trusts Bruce.

Also, Betty had more nuance, as she went from mistrusting Bruce to trying to help him, then falling in love with him all over again.

The biggest change that bugged me was what they did with Blonsky. Now he's just a guy who wants to be like the Hulk and he gets his wish. Norton cut a lot of stuff about Blonsky's motivation, trying to turn himself into something, getting scared, going after Ross, etc.

I still liked the movie a lot, but I think you are right in your criticisms. I liked the earlier drafts of the script better, but the excellent execution makes a lot of these problems not that big of a deal.

I think Norton is a great actor but not a great writer. The third act was a mess. The way you have no idea what Abomination is after, or why he's trying to fight.

If they had not messed those parts up, this movie could have been really great, not just really good.

 

[sirchrissypoo]

Bruce goes from trying to rid himself of the Hulk to realizing he can use it for good, so he begins to learn controlling it, hence the smile on his face at the end as he transforms again.

General Ross realizes that he was in the wrong with how he was handling the Hulk situation. No, he will probably never stop trying to stop the Hulk, but he is more aware that what he is doing is affecting everyone around him and the Hulk.

The public is more accepting of the Hulk, since he saved them from The Abomination. No, they don't trust him, and probably never will, but just like Ross, they realize he isn't the mindless monster they thought he was.

 

[Joker]

One of the biggest changes from the earlier drafts to Norton's draft was cutting out some of the character arcs. This was mostly true for Bruce; he went from believing that the Hulk was an "evil" part of himself, to beginning to understand that the creature and him were linked, to ultimately realizing that he was just as good or bad as bruce was. In the end, he is not just trying to "control" the creature, he actually trusts him, and the creature trusts Bruce.

Also, Betty had more nuance, as she went from mistrusting Bruce to trying to help him, then falling in love with him all over again.

The biggest change that bugged me was what they did with Blonsky. Now he's just a guy who wants to be like the Hulk and he gets his wish. Norton cut a lot of stuff about Blonsky's motivation, trying to turn himself into something, getting scared, going after Ross, etc.

I still liked the movie a lot, but I think you are right in your criticisms. I liked the earlier drafts of the script better, but the excellent execution makes a lot of these problems not that big of a deal.

I think Norton is a great actor but not a great writer. The third act was a mess. The way you have no idea what Abomination is after, or why he's trying to fight.

If they had not messed those parts up, this movie could have been really great, not just really good.

You are aware according to everyone involved all Norton rewrote was the first act, and a few minor tweaks through the rest right? Therefore anything in the third act (which was fine, by the way) would have nothing to do with him at all...

 

[Sundancer]

A lot of intersting things here...

One thing not mentioned..if I remember right...weren't Bruce and Betty staying in touch at the end? She mailed him her necklace and he was mailing it back, right? So at least Bruce decided to keep her posted on where he he is.

 

[El Payaso]

The movie is fun and action packed but the character development is close to zero.

Now the fun and the action are there to make us forget things as character development.