NEW OFFICIAL SYNOPSIS -The Norton's Touch

[Sava]

Well, if we're honest, there's not much to the story, you know? Nuclear holocaust devastates all of creation and we're left to one man-beast's tale of survival. It's rather lonely in feel and not much substance, unless you're a Hulk diehard.

yeah, it'll only be for fans, they'll never make it anyway. I just really love the ending.

 

[Bannerless Hulk]

If you want, PM me, i have a digital version of "hulk: The ENd", i can send it over.

This story is very good, but self contained, and in the end , nothing more than a "what if"....
The art kicks massive butts too.

Cool, thanks. Can't wait to see it in its entirety.

But also when he calls Betty he tells her he is deeply sorry, and he sounds like he means it. He definately shows remorse at David's and Bruce's supposed death though.

But that's where I think it's kind of fuzzy, you know? No doubt he means it, but it seems like he's more sorry for HER as a concerned father - not them. He knew Bruce was her friend and regrets being the one responsible for taking him away from her. But David? I'm not convinced he has any regard for him beyond the point of their harmless interactions at the very beginning of the movie. If he does, then I think Ang would've given us more indication than what "seeing green" entails (what Ross says to Betty on the phone), since David was never green.

But who really knows? From Ross's end, there seems to be evidence for both concern and hatred for either Bruce or David. Comments like "And if you ever so much as come within 500 feet of Betty, I'll put you away for the rest of your natural life" and "He is his father's son, every last molecule of him" don't exactly leave us with the feeling there's mutual reconciliation between them. And the setting for that phone conversation from Ross's end - out in the middle of the desert - is really interesting to me. I guess maybe he was on a cell phone and needed a good reception, but personally, it seems to indicate that he's really stewing over his ordeal with those two guys, Bruce and David... like it haunts him in his sleep or something. And for this reason, I could agree with you that Ross feels remorse over their death... but I insist we just don't know. There's nothing conclusive in any which direction... again, a tribute to the outstanding script for and acting of Sam Elliot.

As a side note, the character of General Ross as played by Elliot reminds me of my own father so darned much that it could be skewing my take on his character. My dad has served in the Army Reserves for years and the similarities that seem to exist between him and Ross are eery. But again, maybe I'm assuming I know the way Ross thinks because I know the way my dad thinks and maybe I'm confusing the two.

yeah, it'll only be for fans, they'll never make it anyway. I just really love the ending.

Yeah, I agree. It's a great script, but like you, I can't see them making it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

But that's where I think it's kind of fuzzy, you know? No doubt he means it, but it seems like he's more sorry for HER as a concerned father - not them. He knew Bruce was her friend and regrets being the one responsible for taking him away from her. But David? I'm not convinced he has any regard for him beyond the point of their harmless interactions at the very beginning of the movie. If he does, then I think Ang would've given us more indication than what "seeing green" entails (what Ross says to Betty on the phone), since David was never green.

But who really knows? From Ross's end, there seems to be evidence for both concern and hatred for either Bruce or David. Comments like "And if you ever so much as come within 500 feet of Betty, I'll put you away for the rest of your natural life" and "He is his father's son, every last molecule of him" don't exactly leave us with the feeling there's mutual reconciliation between them. And the setting for that phone conversation from Ross's end - out in the middle of the desert - is really interesting to me. I guess maybe he was on a cell phone and needed a good reception, but personally, it seems to indicate that he's really stewing over his ordeal with those two guys, Bruce and David... like it haunts him in his sleep or something. And for this reason, I could agree with you that Ross feels remorse over their death... but I insist we just don't know. There's nothing conclusive in any which direction... again, a tribute to the outstanding script for and acting of Sam Elliot.

As a side note, the character of General Ross as played by Elliot reminds me of my own father so darned much that it could be skewing my take on his character. My dad has served in the Army Reserves for years and the similarities that seem to exist between him and Ross are eery. But again, maybe I'm assuming I know the way Ross thinks because I know the way my dad thinks and maybe I'm confusing the two.

Maybe, LOL, but IMO, whether it was for Betty or not, he showed remorse and sadness at the apparent death's. Maybe he says all of those stuff he does earlier in the movie because he doesnt quite realise what he is doing at that point, who knows, but its there.

As for the phonecall at the end, IMO it was partly just an excuse to call Betty, as it seemed due to her surprise at him calling, they hadnt spoke in a while (also it was a year after). But i also think part of him still thought Bruce was alive. Afterall, he saw the Hulk take some heavy hits throughout the movie and keep getting up from them.

 

[Bannerless Hulk]

Maybe, LOL, but IMO, whether it was for Betty or not, he showed remorse and sadness at the apparent death's. Maybe he says all of those stuff he does earlier in the movie because he doesnt quite realise what he is doing at that point, who knows, but its there.

Well, that's what I'm debating - whether the "remorse and sadness" was due to his causing their apparent deaths or whether it's angst/grief in general. I suppose you can sit there and say it's from their deaths, but I find that to be a less-than-all-encompassing view of the character of Ross, as is shown throughout the movie. Again, I think Betty is the only thing/person he cares about, but to say he's "sad" over David and Bruce's death? You can make that judgment call; I'm not.

As for the phonecall at the end, IMO it was partly just an excuse to call Betty, as it seemed due to her surprise at him calling, they hadnt spoke in a while (also it was a year after). But i also think part of him still thought Bruce was alive. Afterall, he saw the Hulk take some heavy hits throughout the movie and keep getting up from them.

Yeah, I would agree. And I suspect it's more driven by fear than hope.

antsiou and Sava, I finally read all of the "Hulk: The End" over my lunch hour... I now have a little bit of indigestion (the cockroaches eating the Hulk) lol... and I must say, some really interesting stuff. The things that come to mind first are the things that made me laugh. The picture of the 200-year-old Banner trying to outrun the cockroaches is hysterical... "How ludicrous I must appear running faster and faster across the scorched plain, my skinny arms pumping, my feet 'thwap-thwapping' across the parched ground." Also love the shot of him plunging over the cliff. I'm laughing as I type... just too funny.

But the story is just plain cool. No glaring deficiencies as far as I could tell, and the scenery/art is breathtaking. I would be hard pressed to say what my favorite shot is... it's just the perspective all-around... but the "vidbot" definitely seems to add something to it all. It's as if WE are the vidbot, and we're placed right there with Banner and the Hulk. No shortage of substance for the imagination. The differentiation between the text (who is speaking) also helped I thought, but maybe that's standard protocol with comics (something I haven't noticed before).

But about the story... the whole Prometheus angle on things is intriguing. Is that - the Hulk as "the living symbol of nuclear fire" - true to the rest of the comics? For the purposes of this issue, it fit the story perfectly. Just curious as to whether it was invented only for this issue or not. The "giants" during the "Atomic Age" (other superheroes) only added legitimacy to it all - to the Hulk as "the living symbol of the Atomic Age," the "heir to Prometheus" and "the strongest one there is" - and it causes me to wonder if the TIH makers are taking such mythology and, specifically, this issue into consideration. The holographic images of the superheroes, btw, are cool... I wonder how the artist did that (layering?). Oh, and who is the big red dude with the two antennae? I was wondering about him when I was reading "Marvel Zombies" last weekend, but was too lazy to look him up (I think his name is Hank?).

Sava, you seem to be right on with your assessment about the ending. With the final line "Hulk feels ... cold," we're left to assume the Hulk does comprehend the depth of his loneliness, despite all of his musings up to that point about not needing Banner or anyone else... but while still hating Banner and vice versa, which you pointed out in post #98. Still not sure if there's enough material for a feature-length movie based on it, but if they ever make one, I would go to see that Recorder dude alone. lol

Perhaps one small inconsistency... Peter David explains what happens to the cockcoaches after eating the Hulk - they basically get their fill of the Hulk and leave, which is what I'd suspected after reading the issue's synopsis - but a question that precedes this is: Why does the Hulk simply allow them to take over him? He seems to offer minimal resistance. Wouldn't he have been able to jump away from them? Assuming he jumps away and they catch up with him, wouldn't he then be able to tap his limitless strength to overpower them? The subtle implication that this issue leave us with is cockroaches - not the Hulk - are the strongest ones there are. Or, at the very least, they are even in terms of strength, since both are able to outlast each other in different ways (flying away/regenerating). To answer my own question, I think Peter David allows the scene to take place just for curiosity's sake, but does anyone have a different idea?

Crossovers with other movies... the near-death scene at the end, with Banner experiencing a "fire" or "pain" in his chest and hallucinating that he sees his family and friends, is reminiscent of Gladiator (which I absolutely loved). And the mutant cockroaches are similar to the bats in King Kong. Does anyone know whether one stole/borrowed the idea from the other?

 

[antsiou]

Well, that's what I'm debating - whether the "remorse and sadness" was due to his causing their apparent deaths or whether it's angst/grief in general. I suppose you can sit there and say it's from their deaths, but I find that to be a less-than-all-encompassing view of the character of Ross, as is shown throughout the movie. Again, I think Betty is the only thing/person he cares about, but to say he's "sad" over David and Bruce's death? You can make that judgment call; I'm not.

I agree with you there. Ross is a man of Law and Order, he lives by the rules and make sure it's been enforced. The only person he can say that he genuinely loves, is Betty. but again, he can't let that transpire in his behavior.
The general talks directly to the President on the phone, he wouldn't let any feeling being on display... (see the scene at the restaurant, he shows he care, to get something out of Betty,but not only, and she feels that. She knows he loves her (or wants to believe that he do), but yet, she's sick and sad of not getting any emotional answer from him. A genuine gesture of love and concern.

And it's rflected in the end with the phone call.
Worry about betty, but an agenda in mind...
I don't think he's worried about bruce, but worried about not having completed his mission...Neutraliing the Hulk

Yeah, I would agree. And I suspect it's more driven by fear than hope.

antsiou and Sava, I finally read all of the "Hulk: The End" over my lunch hour... I now have a little bit of indigestion (the cockroaches eating the Hulk) lol... and I must say, some really interesting stuff. The things that come to mind first are the things that made me laugh. The picture of the 200-year-old Banner trying to outrun the cockroaches is hysterical... "How ludicrous I must appear running faster and faster across the scorched plain, my skinny arms pumping, my feet 'thwap-thwapping' across the parched ground." Also love the shot of him plunging over the cliff. I'm laughing as I type... just too funny.

But the story is just plain cool. No glaring deficiencies as far as I could tell, and the scenery/art is breathtaking. I would be hard pressed to say what my favorite shot is... it's just the perspective all-around... but the "vidbot" definitely seems to add something to it all. It's as if WE are the vidbot, and we're placed right there with Banner and the Hulk. No shortage of substance for the imagination. The differentiation between the text (who is speaking) also helped I thought, but maybe that's standard protocol with comics (something I haven't noticed before).

But about the story... the whole Prometheus angle on things is intriguing. Is that - the Hulk as "the living symbol of nuclear fire" - true to the rest of the comics? For the purposes of this issue, it fit the story perfectly. Just curious as to whether it was invented only for this issue or not. The "giants" during the "Atomic Age" (other superheroes) only added legitimacy to it all - to the Hulk as "the living symbol of the Atomic Age," the "heir to Prometheus" and "the strongest one there is" - and it causes me to wonder if the TIH makers are taking such mythology and, specifically, this issue into consideration. The holographic images of the superheroes, btw, are cool... I wonder how the artist did that (layering?). Oh, and who is the big red dude with the two antennae? I was wondering about him when I was reading "Marvel Zombies" last weekend, but was too lazy to look him up (I think his name is Hank?).

That's Giant man, with one of his first costume (Hank Pym yes); one of the original Avenger


NEed to eat, will coment on the rest later

 

[Sava]

Sava, you seem to be right on with your assessment about the ending. With the final line "Hulk feels ... cold," we're left to assume the Hulk does comprehend the depth of his loneliness, despite all of his musings up to that point about not needing Banner or anyone else... but while still hating Banner and vice versa, which you pointed out in post #98. Still not sure if there's enough material for a feature-length movie based on it, but if they ever make one, I would go to see that Recorder dude alone. lol

i dont think there is enough there for a movie, but as a comic and as an end for Hulk, its great IMO.

Perhaps one small inconsistency... Peter David explains what happens to the cockcoaches after eating the Hulk - they basically get their fill of the Hulk and leave, which is what I'd suspected after reading the issue's synopsis - but a question that precedes this is: Why does the Hulk simply allow them to take over him? He seems to offer minimal resistance. Wouldn't he have been able to jump away from them? Assuming he jumps away and they catch up with him, wouldn't he then be able to tap his limitless strength to overpower them? The subtle implication that this issue leave us with is cockroaches - not the Hulk - are the strongest ones there are. Or, at the very least, they are even in terms of strength, since both are able to outlast each other in different ways (flying away/regenerating). To answer my own question, I think Peter David allows the scene to take place just for curiosity's sake, but does anyone have a different idea?

I think its hard for Hulk to fight them cause there's so many of them and they are so little, it'll be hard for Hulk to fight them, jumping away will only just tier him.

Crossovers with other movies... the near-death scene at the end, with Banner experiencing a "fire" or "pain" in his chest and hallucinating that he sees his family and friends, is reminiscent of Gladiator (which I absolutely loved). And the mutant cockroaches are similar to the bats in King Kong. Does anyone know whether one stole/borrowed the idea from the other?

i have no idea, did the first KK have bats in them?

 

[Advanced Dark]

http://incrediblehulk.marvel.com/

I love the background. You know as the release get's closer and the update the site he's gonna come busting through that wall.