Southern Flag Opinion.

[Maximum Carnage]

they couldn't get anyone to work in that section without pay...

.. Lmao!

 

[Maximum Carnage]

People can think the way they want to think and fly any flag they want to.. just don't be stupid about it, and don't break any laws. :/

 

[Majic Walrus]

And there's no real good reason to abolish something they cherish as well. If it's something they rally behind, and feel unity towards, there's really no good reason to tell them, "No, can't have it."

There is a good reason to not have the Confederate flag be a part of a state's flag or symbol. There is a good reason not to have the Union Jack be a part of a state's flag or symbol.

Those are symbols of aggressors of the United States and therefore should not be used as part of the state's symbol.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

There is a good reason to not have the Confederate flag be a part of a state's flag or symbol. There is a good reason not to have the Union Jack be a part of a state's flag or symbol.

Those are symbols of aggressors of the United States and therefore should not be used as part of the state's symbol.

Like said before, that's a connotation given to them, and an unfair one at that. If it's their heritage and their preference, we have no right to tell them otherwise, as it's really a symbol of state rights, which they are big supporters of. It's their tradition and culture to display as they enjoy. Just because a few high notice groups have used it for purposes not exactly echoing them doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to use it because we feel it's not necessary.

As for the Union Jack reference, the only part of it looking like Union Jack is the fact it's two crossing bars in an X pattern, and that's it's ONLY reference it makes. It'd be like saying the current American flag is reminiscent of French culture due to coloring, and should be abandoned by principle. (Considering you're talking about the battle flag of the confederacy, a rendition of their stainless flag. If not, then it pretty much resembles the current American flag in many ways.)

 

[BlackLantern]

well when those 'high notice groups' include the KKK and various other criminal and racist organizations...it's a bit tough to look the other way

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Granted, it is. But I doubt they would like to abandon their pride for that.

 

[BlackLantern]

it's only their "pride" because they grew up in a climate that fostered that

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yeah, and it comes from generations of family teachings.

 

[BlackLantern]

families can be wrong sometime

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Yeah, they can be wrong sometimes. Definitely not always. But I somehow doubt you'll be convincing them that literally all of them are wrong.

I'd pay a dollar to see you try though.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Like said before, that's a connotation given to them, and an unfair one at that. If it's their heritage and their preference, we have no right to tell them otherwise, as it's really a symbol of state rights, which they are big supporters of. It's their tradition and culture to display as they enjoy. Just because a few high notice groups have used it for purposes not exactly echoing them doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to use it because we feel it's not necessary.

It is not a symbol of "state rights" it is a symbol of a country that seperated from the union. It is a symbol of rebellion against the union. It has nothing to do with heritage. As I mentioned before in the entire history of the world that flag was only used to represent the Confederate States of America for four small years.

As for the Union Jack reference, the only part of it looking like Union Jack is the fact it's two crossing bars in an X pattern, and that's it's ONLY reference it makes. It'd be like saying the current American flag is reminiscent of French culture due to coloring, and should be abandoned by principle. (Considering you're talking about the battle flag of the confederacy, a rendition of their stainless flag. If not, then it pretty much resembles the current American flag in many ways.)

:facepalm

Did you even read my post? I wasn't comparing the visual similarities I was comparing those two flags together because they were both flags of countries that were at war with the US.

The fact is that displaying the flag of the Confederate States of America is no different than displaying the flag of Japan, Nazi Germany, Great Britian, Iraq or any other country we've been at war with as an official symbol.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

It is not a symbol of "state rights" it is a symbol of a country that seperated from the union. It is a symbol of rebellion against the union. It has nothing to do with heritage. As I mentioned before in the entire history of the world that flag was only used to represent the Confederate States of America for four small years.



:facepalm

Did you even read my post? I wasn't comparing the visual similarities I was comparing those two flags together because they were both flags of countries that were at war with the US.

The fact is that displaying the flag of the Confederate States of America is no different than displaying the flag of Japan, Nazi Germany, Great Britian, Iraq or any other country we've been at war with as an official symbol.

 

[Maximum Carnage]

It's a slippery slope. x_X;

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Well, the thing is, there's an entire culture associated with it. It's not just you, it's not just me who get to make views of it's symbolism, it's also the people who enjoy and proudly display it. Just to restate: We can view it however WE would like to, but ultimately, it's how the people of that flag who view it their own way, and ultimately are the judge of it.

We can sit here all day, and complain about how it's the flag of an enemy, the symbol of racism, the face of things that might be wrong with your country. But in the end, it's the flag of a people who are staunch Americans who are proud of their heritage and history, and are still okay with showing it.

Heck, we can tell THEM it's the flag of combatants and racists, and they're not going to care. You might as well tell Nazi Germany the swastika is a symbol of well being, and they'd tell you right back how they view the swastika to them.

 

[Wylie Times]

can anything be done to erase the negative connotations or perceptions that the Confedrate flag has??

Probably not because public perception is a ***** and when you have it STILL making appearances at Klan rallies and such.

As an African American you know how much grief I was get walking down the street wearing a blue bandanna? The bandanna in and of itself is meaningless, but because a bunch *******s use it to signify being part of a certain gang, if I'M seen wearing it people (especially cops) assume i'm part of that same game...public perception is a ***** and is VERY hard to change.

The style of the buildings and attractions are structured to echo each section's theme. The Monster Plantation, for example.

If that's the case then I can see why it was taken down. I know if I went to an amusement park and say they had a confederacy section it'd be a lil off putting. Like I said if you're a decedent of the people who were beaten, mutilated, raped, an lynched on a pretty regular basis in those days I'd doubt you'd want to see an amusement park dedicated to it. Just like if I was Native American I couldn't see myself going to many thanksgiving dinners or amusement parks with an old west theme.

Granted, it is. But I doubt they would like to abandon their pride for that.

If that's the case then they should speak out more and be more outraged when those groups DO use that flag, or at least show an inkling of understanding as to why some people are SO offended by it.

The reality of it is that despite the flags original meaning it's been used MUCH longer as the flag of choice by violent bigots than anything else.After the civil war The Klan would often have it flying along with that white cross symbol of theirs was the murdered thousands of black people, the flag also made regular appearances at pro-segregation rallies during the civil rights movement, and it STILL makes appearances today at Klan rallies and such.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Probably not because public perception is a ***** and when you have it STILL making appearances at Klan rallies and such.

As an African American you know how much grief I was get walking down the street wearing a blue bandanna? The bandanna in and of itself is meaningless, but because a bunch *******s use it to signify being part of a certain gang, if I'M seen wearing it people (especially cops) assume i'm part of that same game...public perception is a ***** and is VERY hard to change.



If that's the case then I can see why it was taken down. I know if I went to an amusement park and say they had a confederacy section it'd be a lil off putting. Like I said if you're a decedent of the people who were beaten, mutilated, raped, an lynched on a pretty regular basis in those days I'd doubt you'd want to see an amusement park dedicated to it. Just like if I was Native American I couldn't see myself going to many thanksgiving dinners or amusement parks with an old west theme.



If that's the case then they should speak out more and be more outraged when those groups DO use that flag, or at least show an inkling of understanding as to why some people are SO offended by it.

The reality of it is that despite the flags original meaning it's been used MUCH longer as the flag of choice by violent bigots than anything else.After the civil war The Klan would often have it flying along with that white cross symbol of theirs was the murdered thousands of black people, the flag also made regular appearances at pro-segregation rallies during the civil rights movement, and it STILL makes appearances today at Klan rallies and such.

They probably do on some level speak out against it, and it doesn't help a good plethora of the hate groups probably originate from those states. And they probably DO understand the hatred that comes from them. But again, it's their cultural pride. They're not going to answer for other people.

And the flag was used as a battle standard developed during the Civil War, and was used AFTER the Civil War for racist activities. And while the flag DOES turn up at those events often, it's still the flag of a people who accept that flag as their own.

 

[Wylie Times]

They probably do on some level speak out against it, and it doesn't help a good plethora of the hate groups probably originate from those states. And they probably DO understand the hatred that comes from them. But again, it's their cultural pride. They're not going to answer for other people.

The thing is more often than not there's a completely and willful lack of understand on some people's part as to why others get upset about it, some pretend as if it's not a symbol of hatred to many and act as if the people offended are being oversensitive.

It's less of an issue if some guy or girl on the street wants to wear or wave that flag, me personally I'll just look at them funny and keep it moving, but if I'm a citizen of a certain state I'm damn sure not gonna want to see that flag flying on alongside the US flag, that'd be like the nazi swastika flying with he US flag to a lot of people.

I don't think it's fair when people say it's a symbol of southern culture and pride. Millions of black folk live in the south too and are entrenched in the culture and they don't look at that flag as a symbol of pride at all.

the flag was used as a battle standard developed during the Civil War, and was used AFTER the Civil War for racist activities. And while the flag DOES turn up at those events often, it's still the flag of a people who accept that flag as their own.

I understand what the flag was used for during that brief period of the civil war, but as I said it's been used as a symbol of hate for MUCH MUCH MUCH longer than that. The argument (no matter how honest it may be) that it's JUST a symbol of southern culture and pride is a very recent thing.

I mean it's kinda like me and the bandanna thing. You can go ahead and wear that flag and wave it all you like but you better know that a good amount of folks are gonna look at and think "bigot", just like they'd look at me in a bandanna and think "gang member"....it may not be fair but it is understandable.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

The thing is more often than not there's a completely and willful lack of understand on some people's part as to why others get upset about it, some pretend as if it's not a symbol of hatred to many and act as if the people offended are being oversensitive.

It's less of an issue if some guy or girl on the street wants to wear or wave that flag, me personally I'll just look at them funny and keep it moving, but if I'm a citizen of a certain state I'm damn sure not gonna want to see that flag flying on alongside the US flag, that'd be like the nazi swastika flying with he US flag to a lot of people.

I don't think it's fair when people say it's a symbol of southern culture and pride. Millions of black folk live in the south too and are entrenched in the culture and they don't look at that flag as a symbol of pride at all.



I understand what the flag was used for during that brief period of the civil war, but as I said it's been used as a symbol of hate for MUCH MUCH MUCH longer than that. The argument (no matter how honest it may be) that it's JUST a symbol of southern culture and pride is a very recent thing.

I mean it's kinda like me and the bandanna thing. You can go ahead and wear that flag and wave it all you like but you better know that a good amount of folks are gonna look at and think "bigot", just like they'd look at me in a bandanna and think "gang member"....it may not be fair but it is understandable.

While I definitely agree that the use of the battle flag has more or less been a resurgence of symbolism for the south, I disagree they fly it outside the US as part of the US flagset, and really only fly it over the states who don't mind it, who is exactly who I'm defending on it.

And yeah, it's been used WAY longer, and WAY more often for racist ties, (and there's no lying, there's a good chance those who fly it have racial tendencies regardless), it's still a flag they choose to have represent them, and as long as they regard it as such, it will be recognized by them as a symbol of southern culture and pride. They don't slap it on the back of their trucks because it looks cool after all, it's just how they view it.

And I agree, it's understandable that people will be apprehensive at it's sight, which is something I experienced as well when I first came to America. (During the Iraq Invasion was not a pleasant time for some Frenchborn to be hanging around those who might view us as not being people to be nice to.) However, the people who do proudly display that standard don't care, and probably won't even if you guys tell them they should consider the other connotations which come with said standard. It's always going to fall to the point of what they want to represent them, and if that's what they want to represent them, then it's what they'll do. It literally is no different for a Nazi themed flag (as terrible as it is). You guys can't simply retire it because you don't want them to use it, because they'll just use it anyway. They'll probably just take it as an infrigement of their state rights to use it.

 

[Addendum]

If they want to fly the flag of a failed nation go ahead. It's your right. That doesn't mean others have to respect it

 

[Wylie Times]

While I definitely agree that the use of the battle flag has more or less been a resurgence of symbolism for the south, I disagree they fly it outside the US as part of the US flagset, and really only fly it over the states who don't mind it, who is exactly who I'm defending on it.

I know they don't fly it outside of the US, but they do fly it at capital buildings in some states and many people who LIVE in those states don't want it there and find it highly offensive. Anything flying from a flag pole of a states government buildings should represent ALL the people of that state not just one segment of it's population, and it certainly shouldn't offend large portions of the states population which that flag indeed does.

yeah, it's been used WAY longer, and WAY more often for racist ties, (and there's no lying, there's a good chance those who fly it have racial tendencies regardless), it's still a flag they choose to have represent them, and as long as they regard it as such, it will be recognized by them as a symbol of southern culture and pride. They don't slap it on the back of their trucks because it looks cool after all, it's just how they view it.



And I agree, it's understandable that people will be apprehensive at it's sight, which is something I experienced as well when I first came to America. (During the Iraq Invasion was not a pleasant time for some Frenchborn to be hanging around those who might view us as not being people to be nice to.) However, the people who do proudly display that standard don't care, and probably won't even if you guys tell them they should consider the other connotations which come with said standard. It's always going to fall to the point of what they want to represent them, and if that's what they want to represent them, then it's what they'll do. It literally is no different for a Nazi themed flag (as terrible as it is). You guys can't simply retire it because you don't want them to use it, because they'll just use it anyway. They'll probably just take it as an infrigement of their state rights to use it.

I'm not saying people don't have the right to fly that flag, it's their right as american citizens. I just I just don't like the willful ignorance that comes along with some people defending the flag, especially when those people are elected officials.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I know they don't fly it outside of the US, but they do fly it at capital buildings in some states and many people who LIVE in those states don't want it there and find it highly offensive. Anything flying from a flag pole of a states government buildings should represent ALL the people of that state not just one segment of it's population, and it certainly shouldn't offend large portions of the states population which that flag indeed does.



I'm not saying people don't have the right to fly that flag, it's their right as american citizens. I just I just don't like the willful ignorance that comes along with some people defending the flag, especially when those people are elected officials.

I don't think you could ever really get EVERYBODY to agree on a flag. lol

And I don't blame you for not liking it. I wouldn't care for it either, personally.

 

[Wylie Times]

I don't think you could ever really get EVERYBODY to agree on a flag. lol

And I don't blame you for not liking it. I wouldn't care for it either, personally.

lol

I know odds are everyone wont agree on a flag, but it can at least not be outright offensive to a large segment of the population. I just wish more people would show a degree of empathy is all.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Agreed, that would be nice. But supporters would turn it around and say others should forget what it meant, and accept what it now means. :l

 

[The Guard]

So because it CAN represent something, we should do away with it?

It's a symbol. as such, it's basically a symbol of whatever you want it to be. The flag has clearly come to represent the broad idea of Southern Pride. Which is pretty damn vague, people. It could mean a certain kind of beliefs, pride in one's culture, community, what have you.

Are a lot of racist, bigoted, and ignorant people running around with this flag? Sure. Is everyone who displays it racist or ignorant? Not so much.

Look at actions and context, not just the symbol that is being used.

I'm told they teach the Civil War a bit "differently" in the South, which has always interested me.

The Civil War was about slavery as much as Iraq was about liberting the people there. It was a bargaining chip. However, slavery was a HUGE issue during the Civil War era, before and after.

That said...it's a free country. People have rights to their beliefs. If someone wants to wave a flag that says they believe in this or that, or if they wave a well known symbol that is misinterpreted, then they also have to deal with the consequences and repurcussions if that's not a mainstream ideal in some areas.

 

[BestGirl]

If Southerners wanted to select a symbol to represent their pride they should've chosen a flag that wasn't offensive to so many people who live there (i.e. black people) because it was so strongly identified with the horrible evil of slavery.

The Confederacy and slavery will always be linked the same way the Nazis and the Holocaust were. If you went back in time and asked the average German why he was fighting he wouldnt've said to kill the Jews but that was one of the main goals of Naziism. In the same way, slavery was really important to the Confederates, even if it wasn't the official reason they gave for fighting.

I really can't understand why state institutions would fly a flag that carries with it associations of slavery and treason. Does anyone know when this practice started?