Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 91

[harryoscop]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[X Knight]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

yeah?? so where did that girl go??

she looks more like MJ in all of those pics. unfortunately, we aren't getting that in Homecoming, at least not right away it seems.

what good is posting all of these hot Zendaya pics when we aren't getting that look in Homecoming?

It would be nice if she looked like those pics, but Homecoming MJ doesn't.

I dare say there would be a lot less complaining and gnashing of teeth if she simply looked like those pics in the set pics, along with a description that matched.

 

[zipzip]

Same reason Aunt May looks like Marisa Tomei or Pym Michael Douglas guess Marvel & Sony feel with this being the 3rd iteration they want to go in a different direction with parts of his lore. Yet still believe they can pull off the best on screen Spidey experience.We shall see

 

[Spider-man95]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

But she doesn't look like that in the set pics....what's your point Harry?

 

[harryoscop]

El Mayimbe, Devin Faraci and Vulture have all reported independently that she goes through a transformation to look like 'normal' Zendaya, guys.

 

[UltimateMarvel]

It's part of her arc. The weird girl who secretly likes Peter Parker that turns out to be a gorgeous girl at the homecoming dance.

 

[Spider-man95]

Right, which isn't Mary Jane's character.

 

[harryoscop]

It's part of her arc. The weird girl who secretly likes Peter Parker that turns out to be a gorgeous girl at the homecoming dance.

You know, it's almost like a metaphorical spin on the classic reveal in the comic.

 

[Tymminator]

Do we know for sure that she looks like that for more than one scene in the movie? Is there a chance just one day she had a bad night (parents fighting maybe) so she didn't sleep and just rolled out of bed and went to school for example? For those who went to the Con and saw actual footage, what did she look like?

 

[Dark Raven]

yeah?? so where did that girl go??

she looks more like MJ in all of those pics. unfortunately, we aren't getting that in Homecoming, at least not right away it seems.

what good is posting all of these hot Zendaya pics when we aren't getting that look in Homecoming?

It would be nice if she looked like those pics, but Homecoming MJ doesn't.

I dare say there would be a lot less complaining and gnashing of teeth if she simply looked like those pics in the set pics, along with a description that matched.

Yeah. If they just presented that girl in those pics and then allowed us to dig a little deeper or, as Pierce Brosnan was so fond of saying about his Bond "peel back the layers", then that would be more acceptable. And people would learn to accept Zendaya as MJ. But she seems like a completely different character. A wallflower who learns not to be one and gets noticed when she has a makeover. So she's essentially Sandy from Grease.

They just need to turn Peter into the leader of the T-Birds now.

I can just imagine if his friends ask what he did over the summer, he'll start singing:

Summer loving had me a blast
I was shot at, fell on my ass.
Met a team, strong as can be
Held a beam up 'til I broke free.
Vision phased while Cap got away
But oh those spandex tights.
Well-uh, well-uh, well-uh...
Civil War, Civil War
Did it tear them apart?
Civil War, Civil War
Why did it have to start?

 

[X Knight]

Do we know for sure that she looks like that for more than one scene in the movie? Is there a chance just one day she had a bad night (parents fighting maybe) so she didn't sleep and just rolled out of bed and went to school for example? For those who went to the Con and saw actual footage, what did she look like?

I believe they said she looks pretty much like she does in the set pics.

though other posters here could probably confirm that better.

think I saw someone on twitter say she reminded him ( or her ) of Lindsay Weir from Freaks and Geeks with "don't give a ****" hair.

http://www.seventeen.com/celebrity/...-we-know-about-zendayas-spider-man-character/

 

[X Knight]

It's part of her arc. The weird girl who secretly likes Peter Parker that turns out to be a gorgeous girl at the homecoming dance.

except, that's not really MJ. that's like a different character.

 

[X Knight]

You know, it's almost like a metaphorical spin on the classic reveal in the comic.

I'm reposting this from the MJ thread. They could have done the classic reveal without resorting to making MJ into the complete opposite of what her character should be.

and that's the "façade" angle I wanted them to explore with MJ, not the ugly duckling to beauty angle.

obviously, they'd have to tone down the "party girl" and "flirting" aspect of the character for HS ( though, SSM MJ was quite flirty - she jumped from one guy to the next. ).

but, they could still portray her as the fun loving, popular girl who never seems to take life seriously. the latter part, not taking life seriously, would be the façade. she masks her own troubled homelife by acting like she just lives for the moment without a care in the world.

maybe, that's a turn off to Peter at first. maybe that's why he's attracted to Liz at first. and maybe, as Peter's own problems as Peter AND Spidey start weighing on him, he starts getting annoyed with MJ's seemingly carefree attitude. and that causes friction between the two.

but then something happens that triggers a change. maybe as Spidey, Peter catches a glimpse of MJ's real homelife and sees it's not all rainbows and sunshine for her. Maybe he sees her running away from her home crying, and he follows her to her "safe spot." Wearing a mask as Spidey gives Peter the confidence to approach her and talk with her. Talking to Spidey strangely gives MJ the confidence to be honest about her feelings for once. So they have a nice talk and start to understand each other better.

later on, MJ learns Peter's secret and remembering her conversation she had with him as Spidey, realizes the great burden he's been carrying all this time. that gives her confidence to face her own problems without having to resort to her own "mask."

I'd much rather see that dynamic than any ugly duckling transformation.

and you know what?

if they had gone for a similar scenario like I put forth, they could still have had the Face It/Tiger reveal at the end.

since MJ and Peter wouldn't already be best friends/confidants ( like in Ultimate ), and since Peter wouldn't really be attracted to her at first due to her carefree personality and due to his focus on Liz, that means Peter wouldn't really know who she is - that she's the "Mrs. Watson's lovely niece" that Aunt May keeps nagging him about. you don't know everything about every classmate at your school, especially if you're not that close with the person. For all Peter knows, she's just MJ, that's all he knows her by, he doesn't have to know her last name.

so, at the end, when Peter is dateless for Homecoming ( he pinned all of his hopes on Liz and something happened that she stood him up or whatever ), the doorbell rings, and there stands MJ, looking all lovely and now with a more confident attitude about her - Face It Tiger, You Just Hit The Jackpot!!

so, you can still have that classic reveal moment without resorting to some stupid, contrived, out of character ugly duckling transformation story arc.

and certainly no need for the most contrived element of all - the name "Michelle."

 

[X Knight]

El Mayimbe, Devin Faraci and Vulture have all reported independently that she goes through a transformation to look like 'normal' Zendaya, guys.

did they say that?

I thought El Mayimbe just said they'd "drop hints" that she's MJ.

and I believe it was the Vulture that said that the big "twist" is that she tells Peter he can call her "MJ" by the end.

 

[Dark Raven]

Speaking of Grease, I think they've picked the wrong one. They should've gone for Grease 2. Michelle Pfieffer was Stephanie Zinone, the hot alpha female and leader of the Pink Ladies and Maxwell Caulfield (who voiced Alistair Smythe in Spider-Man: The Animated Series) was the shy and geeky new student Michael Carrington who wasn't considered to be in her league.

Then he started dressing up as a mystery motorcyclist and got her attention, because he was her "Cool Rider". And we eventually saw beneath the surface of this hot chick that everyone wanted.

And the "Cool Rider" also got the attention of the big man on campus, school bully and new leader of the T-Birds Johnny Nogerelli, played by Adrian Zmed who felt he was a threat to him.

So that there is already more similar to the classic template of Spider-Man than using Grease, which is the exact opposite arc.

 

[X Knight]

Speaking of Grease, I think they've picked the wrong one. They should've gone for Grease 2. Michelle Pfieffer was Stephanie Zinone, the hot alpha female and leader of the Pink Ladies and Maxwell Caulfield (who voiced Alistair Smythe in Spider-Man: The Animated Series) was the shy and geeky new student Michael Carrington who wasn't considered to be in her league.

Then he started dressing up as a mystery motorcyclist and got her attention, because he was her "Cool Rider". And we eventually saw beneath the surface of this cool chick that everyone wanted.

And the "Cool Rider" also got the attention of the big man on campus, school bully and new leader of the T-Birds Johnny Nogerelli, played by Adrian Zmed who felt he was a threat to him.

So that there is already more similar to the classic template of Spider-Man than using Grease, which is the exact opposite arc.

****!! you're right!!

 

[harryoscop]

did they say that?

I thought El Mayimbe just said they'd "drop hints" that she's MJ.

and I believe it was the Vulture that said that the big "twist" is that she tells Peter he can call her "MJ" by the end.

This is what Mayimbe had to say on Periscope:

"Why would they lie about her name if she was playing MJ?"


He told me that what they're planning on doing is sort of an end of the movie, Dark Knight Rises type reveal with Zendaya regarding her being Mary Jane. Apparently it will be revealed at the end of the movie, just like Talia Al Ghul was at the end of TDKR. This would explain why her character has the name Michelle on paper, because the film is trying to trick extras into thinking that she isn't Mary Jane, so it doesn't break online. This would also explain why a cast member in Spider-Man Homecoming retweeted that picture of the cast list which says her name is Michelle. Finally, this info lines up with Mike Sampson's tweet which basically says the same thing - that her role in the movie will be a surprise reveal that comes toward the finale of the film. I don't know if any of this is legit, but we have two sources both saying the same thing. Umberto didn't give too much information regarding MJ because he didn't want to spoil too much

So yeah, we're getting sexy Z, it'll be part of her arc in the movie. I think when Peter loses on Liz to Flash for Homecoming and is feeling bummed, BAM, Mary Jane shows up, looking gorgeous and says the iconic line.

 

[AvegningSpider]

I don't see the problem, Zendaya in the set photos looks normal, it's not like she goes from Ugly Betty to...well Mary Jane Watson professional super-model.

 

[X Knight]

This is what Mayimbe had to say on Periscope:




So yeah, we're getting sexy Z, it'll be part of her arc in the movie. I think when Peter loses on Liz to Flash for Homecoming and is feeling bummed, BAM, Mary Jane shows up, looking gorgeous and says the iconic line.

that just says she will be revealed as MJ by the end of the film.

it says nothing about a makeover or transformation into "sexy" MJ.

like I said above, a reveal could be as simple as her saying to Peter "You can call me MJ."

Oh, and I like how Mayimbe goes on about this being a surprise at the end of the film, when he ******* SPOILED said surprise!!! Yeah!! Great Job Mayimbe!!

 

[Dark Raven]

Weren't people worried about the writers of Homecoming before?

Well maybe we should still be, if they knew they had to write a classic high school story and out of the ones they could've picked, they went for the wrong ones and imposed those frameworks on Spider-Man and his supporting cast. It's not like there aren't existing high school movie templates that would actually fit better with classic Spider-Man than Grease or the Breakfast Club. Grease 2 or Back to the Future or many other films would've worked better.

If, instead of trying to impose the Breakfast Club on this movie, they imposed bits of BTTF, that still would've been truer to the Spider-Man comics and more satisfying.

 

[harryoscop]

that just says she will be revealed as MJ by the end of the film.

it says nothing about a makeover or transformation into "sexy" MJ.

like I said above, a reveal could be as simple as her saying to Peter "You can call me MJ."

Oh, and I like how Mayimbe goes on about this being a surprise at the end of the film, when he ******* SPOILED said surprise!!! Yeah!! Great Job Mayimbe!!

Uh, it goes In hand with the reports from DF & Vulture that say she'll get a makeover. Dude, do you really think they would build up to the 'reveal' over the course of the entire movie just to have her say "oh, and you can call me MJ."?? That would be beyond anticlimactic, it doesn't make sense and Marvel would never do that. Come on, man, seriously.

 

[X Knight]

Weren't people worried about the writers of Homecoming before?

Well maybe we should still be, if they knew they had to write a classic high school story and out of the ones they could've picked, they went for the wrong ones and imposed those frameworks on Spider-Man and his supporting cast. It's not like there aren't existing high school movie templates that would actually fit better with classic Spider-Man than Grease or the Breakfast Club. Grease 2 or Back to the Future or many other films would've worked better.

If, instead of trying to impose the Breakfast Club on this movie, they imposed bits of BTTF, that still would've been truer to the Spider-Man comics and more satisfying.

agreed. they are pigeonholing Spidey characters into the wrong character templates from other films.

like sticking a square peg into a round hole.

I mean, look at who Michelle's character is being compared to in this article.

http://www.seventeen.com/celebrity/...-we-know-about-zendayas-spider-man-character/

Linsday Weir from Freak and Geeks and Allison Reynolds from The Breakfast Club - both more weirdo, introverted, social outcast type characters. And both the EXACT OPPOSITE of MJ's character type.

 

[X Knight]

Uh, it goes In hand with the reports from DF & Vulture that say she'll get a makeover. Dude, do you really think they would build up to the 'reveal' over the course of the entire movie just to have her say "oh, and you can call me MJ."?? That would be beyond anticlimactic, it doesn't make sense and Marvel would never do that. Come on, man, seriously.

do you have links to those other reports about her getting a makeover?

but the point of contention still remains......MJ should NEVER EVER EVER need to have a makeover.

it goes against her character type. because it starts her out in a position that's totally opposite to her character. And it's not just her looks that needs a makeover, but her entire personality - to go from quiet, awkward, dry bookworm to playful alpha female.

it would be like Tony Stark going from nerdy, awkward, wild haired weapons engineer to arrogant, suave looking, ladies' man who wears his cool suits and glasses. That wouldn't be Tony Stark.

 

[Dark Raven]

agreed. they are pigeonholing Spidey characters into the wrong character templates from other films.

like sticking a square peg into a round hole.

I mean, look at who Michelle's character is being compared to in this article.

http://www.seventeen.com/celebrity/...-we-know-about-zendayas-spider-man-character/

Linsday Weir from Freak and Geeks and Allison Reynolds from The Breakfast Club - both more weirdo, introverted, social outcast type characters. And both the EXACT OPPOSITE of MJ's character type.

Agreed.

It's not supposed to be based on the template of the main male protagonist chasing after a hot girl while ignoring the geeky girl beside him all along, and when he finally stops chasing the hot girl and opens his eyes he sees that the geeky girl is the one he always wanted and she also turns out to be hot. That is completely wrong.

The correct template is supposed to be that the male protagonist is geeky and can't get a certain hot girl who is out of his league, and faces stiff competition from an alpha male who should naturally get the girl. But then, if anything, it is the hot girl who steps down a level and gives the boy who was there all along a chance, not the other way round.

 

[zipzip]

Adaptation.......... they use what they want from any universe & alter things this is not new for comic book films lol hell MJ in 2016 in the comics is nothing like her classic introduction she freaking works for Stark now & is part of the Iron man universe things change & change.This is just a new depiction.