Spider-Man (PS4) - Part 2

[zeptron]

I like both shows for different reasons. And I really don't like to do comparisons and think whenever a new variation is made it should be judged by it's own merits rather than trying to compare it another. But if you wanna go that route, let's take a side by side comparison of Norman Osborn. In both shows Vulture went after him for a particular reason, both versions reacted a completely different way.

TAS - Runs away screaming, cowering and begging for his life.

Spectacular - Is being held hundreds of feet in the air by Vulture and not only is he not afraid of him, he insults him. Even after he got dropped he still didn't scream.


And let's do a side by side comparison of Doc Ock

TAS - After his debut episode, he really becomes nothing more than Kingpin's stooge. His intro was the only time he had any actual dignity. That episode even portrayed him as someone that wouldn't take orders from somebody else.

Spectacular - When Ock finally snaps he becomes his own man. He created and led the Sinister Six, was the Master Planner and became one of New York's top 3 crime lords. All in a mere two seasons. Which is honestly more than TAS did with Ock in their full five seasons.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

People pay tribute to awful stuff all the time. So whatever.

 

[The Joker]

How did this thread turn into a TAS vs Spectacular debate?

 

[zeptron]

How did this thread turn into a TAS vs Spectacular debate?

Someone stated that Spectacular was the best Spidey cartoon. Another person disagreed and said it was TAS. The rest is history.

I didn't want to participate in it myself, but I had to say something, because I'm constantly seeing people holding one particular variation of a character to such a high standard, that nothing else gets a chance to be better or even just as good. They seem to think that those cartoons/movies are the definitive versions of the stories and characters and should override any other interpretations. And for the most part, it happens to be a version that introduced them to the character and having grown up with.

People are also like this with Sam Raimi and Tobey Maguire. They think they're the be all and end all of the Spider-man movies and to this day you still got people asking for them to come back even though Spider-man 3 came out a decade ago and both have moved on.

 

[Spidey_62]

I like both shows for different reasons. And I really don't like to do comparisons and think whenever a new variation is made it should be judged by it's own merits rather than trying to compare it another. But if you wanna go that route, let's take a side by side comparison of Norman Osborn. In both shows Vulture went after him for a particular reason, both versions reacted a completely different way.

TAS - Runs away screaming, cowering and begging for his life.

Spectacular - Is being held hundreds of feet in the air by Vulture and not only is he not afraid of him, he insults him. Even after he got dropped he still didn't scream.


And let's do a side by side comparison of Doc Ock

TAS - After his debut episode, he really becomes nothing more than Kingpin's stooge. His intro was the only time he had any actual dignity. That episode even portrayed him as someone that wouldn't take orders from somebody else.

Spectacular - When Ock finally snaps he becomes his own man. He created and led the Sinister Six, was the Master Planner and became one of New York's top 3 crime lords. All in a mere two seasons. Which is honestly more than TAS did with Ock in their full five seasons.

Oh absolutely, Spectacular had defining takes on the Goblin and Ock that put the core truths of those characters to the forefront without any of the fluff. I still enjoy the 90s versions, too. Even though Ock has a German accent and becomes a jobber, and Norman is a whining baby. Nowhere near as well crafted in the long run but I enjoy em.

How did this thread turn into a TAS vs Spectacular debate?

It happens. I appreciate the passion Spidey fans have to flip on a dime like this and just let their feelings be heard.

All of you posters here are great!

On that note, I wonder if Doc Ock will be in this game in some capacity. I'd have to imagine most of Spidey's rogues he'll have to have fought by now in this continuity (given we know there's newspaper clippings with Vulture, Electro, and Rhino). There's gotta be some allusion to the big dog besides Norman.

 

[Ricardo Brown]

It was good enough for the Raimi trilogy and Spectacular to imitate. The symbiote bell tower scene was taken straight from TAS.

...I'm sorry... What?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Did I say how much I love the NOIR costume? I'm grateful it's part of Spidey's wardrobe here.

So who do you think is the landlord/landlady here? Mammie Muggins? Mr. Ditkovic? Someone new and unfamiliar?

How did this thread turn into a TAS vs Spectacular debate?

Threads taking a slide is the norm.


We were talking about MJ's personality, all these adaption skip using how her character was before the Death of Gwen Stacy.
MJ being a journalist in this game is kind of inspired by Ultimate Spider-Man, and I believe the author of that title really likes Lois Lane.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

People on this forum really love expressing their opinions as if they’re facts

 

[Spider-jedi]

People on this forum really love expressing their opinions as if they’re facts

this

 

[Spidey_62]

Did I say how much I love the NOIR costume? I'm grateful it's part of Spidey's wardrobe here.

So who do you think is the landlord/landlady here? Mammie Muggins? Mr. Ditkovic? Someone new and unfamiliar?

Threads taking a slide is the norm.


We were talking about MJ's personality, all these adaption skip using how her character was before the Death of Gwen Stacy.
MJ being a journalist in this game is kind of inspired by Ultimate Spider-Man, and I believe the author of that title really likes Lois Lane.

I dunno, I'm sure Peter will mention the landlord being on his butt for rent at some point. I know a fair amount of fans would get a kick out of hearing Mr. Ditkovitch over Mrs. Muggins, but either would be a fun nod. The writer saying they were inspired by the Raimi movies a fair amount makes me wonder what kinds of touches are going to be there that feel like notes from those movies.

Well good thing Bendis is getting to write Lois now!

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I dunno, I'm sure Peter will mention the landlord being on his butt for rent at some point. I know a fair amount of fans would get a kick out of hearing Mr. Ditkovitch over Mrs. Muggins, but either would be a fun nod. The writer saying they were inspired by the Raimi movies a fair amount makes me wonder what kinds of touches are going to be there that feel like notes from those movies.

All they need to take from the Raimi films is Ditkovic, the finest addition that is not a Bruce Campbell cameo.

 

[GamerSlyRatchet]

On that note, I wonder if Doc Ock will be in this game in some capacity. I'd have to imagine most of Spidey's rogues he'll have to have fought by now in this continuity (given we know there's newspaper clippings with Vulture, Electro, and Rhino). There's gotta be some allusion to the big dog besides Norman.

I like the idea that Otto is Peter's secret employer. I dunno if it's before he becomes a supervillain, in disguise, or is reformed, but it would be a cool dynamic to see.

 

[First Avenger]

Peter working for a pre-Ock Octavius would make sense considering how they want Peter and Spidey's worlds to collide.

 

[Silvermoth]

People on this forum really love expressing their opinions as if they’re facts

Tell me about it. A guy on another thread told me exactly what marvel will do with the xmen which is quite amazing considering they literally don’t even own them yet.

People with talent like that should be off getting lotto tickets instead of being here

 

[Galactus123]

None of the 90's MARVEL shows have aged well. Even X-Men: TAS was an absolute chore to get through when I watched it a while back.

I agree. I watched some Spider-Man TAS episodes recently and it didn't look very good. Batman The Animated Series has aged much better. It still looks awesome.

I hope we see this costume in the game:

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I prefer both the chest and back logos in Spider-Man 2 suit, but I think keeping the back logo from the first movie suit while keeping the chest logo from Spider-Man 2 would be fine.

 

[Michael Frost]

Norman is running for re-election as mayor of New York.

The Green Goblin is absolutely our final boss.

Yeah, that's why I'm banking so hard on it

If they go classic, they might make it classic Gobby creating a criminal gang war in order to create a vaccuum of power so he steps in and takes over - both as Mayor with his hand on the city's crime and Supercriminal in the shadows.

 

[Venom 1988]

Uh I hate to derail the thread even more but I gots to defend SSM when I see a bunch of nonsense. Disclaimer - I grew up on the 90s TAS and that was my major introduction into the Spidey Mythos.

It was good enough for the Raimi trilogy and Spectacular to imitate. The symbiote bell tower scene was taken straight from TAS.

Or you know...its original source Web of Spider-Man #1

Compare 'night of the lizard' with Spectacular's first Lizard episode. Which has the better animation?

SSM and to say otherwise is simply false.

Which Lizard is more intimidating?

SSM

Which episode has the more eery atmosphere? Which feels more real? For me, it's TAS all the way.

Eh I wouldn't say either was particularly eerie. Also more real? What does that even mean lol.

Spectacular had no grit, no attitude. It was cartoony, bland and inoffensive, like kim possible.

Seems to be you couldn't get past the art style. Which is fine, the art is gonna gel with everyone but your hate for it seems to have blinded you on how good the show actually is.

Sure, Spectacular's simpler art style allowed motion to be quicker and more fluid, but the end result wasn't always better.

Uh yes it was lol. Again to say the TAS has better animation is wrong.



Anyway lol...to go back to the game...I gotta hope that Green Goblin is gonna have to show up in some capacity. I don't think we've gotten a proper GG in a game that wasn't tied to the movies or an alternate universe

 

[The Shape]

Can't wait to see what the Goblin will look like.

 

[The Slang]

Eh I wouldn't say either was particularly eerie. Also more real? What does that even mean lol.

As in TAS was closer to looking, feeling and acting like real humans in the real world. The characters had personality, flaws, expressions, body language. The world was vast, dirty and imperfect.

Uh yes it was lol. Again to say the TAS has better animation is wrong.

Wrong how? Tas regularly took a realistically proportioned human form and made it flip, rotate and spin in 3 dimensions. The joints would bend as he jumped and landed on the ground to absorb an impact. The limbs would sway with the force of air resistance as he moved with greater speed. Just the intro to TAS is enough to demonstrate some of these moments.

Then look at spectacular. A basic, anatomically incorrect stick man, with practically no muscle definition or detail. It's much easier to rotate and turn an object of this simplicity, but the character would regularly just glide from point a to b, with barely any rotation, no apparent wind resistance or force absorption. No sense of weight. No realistic acrobatic forms.

The best moments in TAS were much harder to animate, requiring more skill, attention and real life references.

 

[Michael Frost]

Let me just chime in quick before we completly derail this thread:

You guys are confusing proper animation with animation STYLESHEETS.

I get that SSM isn't for everyone because they really went for a stylized approach to the world and character design. It was a way of simplifying it and making it cheaper to produce (the show was always on the verge of being cancelled, they didn't have Disney bucks that assured a robust seasonal planning).

The 90s TAS show had a less stylized approach and it based itself mostly at night to avoid having to depict a living and breathing New York full of people. These are the types of concessions you make when trying to create an animated show on time. Animation isn't that simple, specially when you consider that the tech in the 90s wasn't as advanced as it is now.

I feel like it's really apples and oranges when comparing the two. I grew up with the TAS so I obviously have a soft nostalgic spot for it (mainly the Venom stuff which was more faithful to the comics in terms of origins yet in terms of writing I prefer the way they developed the Ultimate-inspired Brock in SSM). I think it's a matter of taste when you're talking aesthetics. Heck, if we're going by looks alone, the newer Ultimate Spiderman cartoon had GREAT animation. The only thing that really makes SSM objectively miles ahead of any other Spidey show is the superb writing and it's ability to distill classic comics and storylines from the Kirby era and giving it to us in bite-sized chunks of epicness.

God I miss SSM

 

[zeptron]

Let me just chime in quick before we completly derail this thread:

You guys are confusing proper animation with animation STYLESHEETS.

I get that SSM isn't for everyone because they really went for a stylized approach to the world and character design. It was a way of simplifying it and making it cheaper to produce (the show was always on the verge of being cancelled, they didn't have Disney bucks that assured a robust seasonal planning).

The 90s TAS show had a less stylized approach and it based itself mostly at night to avoid having to depict a living and breathing New York full of people. These are the types of concessions you make when trying to create an animated show on time. Animation isn't that simple, specially when you consider that the tech in the 90s wasn't as advanced as it is now.

Yeah, I find myself having to constantly repeat myself saying that the more realistic the designs are, the slower the actual animation is and the more time it takes to create a frame and that can actually make for pretty lacking action sequences. Because it's not like that the creators have all the time in the world to make these. But if the art is more simplistic, the better the characters move and the action sequences are faster to make and that makes more frames = better action sequences.

If you're drawing a comic, you can add as much detail as you want since it's just still images. However animation doesn't have that luxury. This is pretty much why Bruce Timm and his team went with the stylized look for Batman TNBA, Justice League and the rest of the DCAU.

That's all I'm gonna say on this matter. Don't want the thread getting completely derailed.

 

[Broseph44]

[YT]WTfrF35eKfQ[/YT]

 

[Gamma Goliath]

All we need is the standard HC costume. Since they confirmed the the homemade suit is in.

 

[Mandon Knight]

[YT]WTfrF35eKfQ[/YT]

I want this gaaammmmmeeee !!!!