Comics Spidey Comics- Jan 09

[moraldeficiency]

No I haven't be married. Oh and thanks for telling me why I think what I think. So I'll tell you why you and the rest of the OMD haters don't like BND. You're pathetic, whinging little people. You cannot accept that a character, FOR CHILDREN, is no longer relatable. So you all ***** and moan and ***** and moan and can't get past your own prefences. "OH I like him married so everything that they do now is a rehash and I'll complain that they never do anything new, when they do something new, I'll complain about them not doing classic stories." Do you know what you should do when and if a children's comic book character because unrelateable, put it down.

Hehe, name calling, the desperate man's last resort. For a guy that started a few posts ago about not whining you're sure whining a lot. Children, children, for the love of god won't someone please think of the children? Hehe. You know they actually write a Spider-Man book specifically for children but unfortunately for your argument it isn't this one.

According to STAN LEE, these character have o be changed drastically every once and a while to keep them fresh and modern. But what would STAN LEE know about Spider-Man, afterall he only created and defined him. I'm sure fanboys know more than the most influencial figure in the mediums history.

Stan's always been a company man, he'll always agree with the EiC. Go check, he's never once taken a difference of opinion and vocalized it against any marvel story. Heroes Reborn? Great Idea. Clone Saga? Great Idea. OMD, SI, etc? Great Idea. So I'd say stan's public voice on these matters is subjective to say the least.

See this crap here really gets to me. How is he acting inexperienced? Give me some examples.

*raises hand really high* Pick me, pick me!

Let's see.... running out of webbing on an almost daily basis. Getting schooled by a funrunner. The inability to catch one cokehead dispite using the inventive wall of web. letting the mugger go because he didn't want him to figure out his identity. living with his aunt. living with a cop (how is this inexperienced? Glad you asked, cause if you're spider-man you should know better than to live with someone who's job it is to investigate things). Becoming a pappo.

 

[kguillou]

The thing is, Amazing Spider-man has always been about the story of Peter Parker and his path of life. We've followed him since he was 16 and we've watched him mature and grow into a man. He went from being a geeky nerd in high school to a mature, but witty teacher. Peter's life has always been about progression and Peter going through the natural phases of life and that includes marriage. Now i'm not saying that we should be reading about a 60 year old Peter who's worried about his prostate every other issue, but there's still ways to progress him and still make him young. again i've said many times, the whole teacher angle was a wonderful idea for peter. Its not a very high paying job so you can still have Peter deal with money problems and stuff and plus it was a fresh idea. But what did marvel do? They took an idea that the majority of the fans were LOVING, and made him a part-time photographer again taking pictures of himself. Is that not regression? Peter spent the last 20 years married with his true love, and now they are no more and pete is back to dating again. Is that not regression? How are we supposed to care about any of Pete's relationships now? At least back then before he married MJ, there was always that benefit of the doubt but now we know in advance that Pete is destined to failure will these random relationships. SO where's the drama?

 

[Ion Kenshin]

as much as i am enjoying whats going on now i do miss the Peter who was a teacher IMO it was one of the best decisions made

 

[shinlyle]

Then how do you account for Spider-Man sales going up?

Sales have been declining steadily until recently. NWTD was an event, and featured to top creators. Of course sales went up. You could put Slott and Romita JR on Archie, and sales would skyrocket! We'll see where sales are after NWTD ends....ten we can talk numbers.

Neither will most superhero's and it worked OK for them. The fact that most of the problems with the Spider-Man books started after the marriage should tell you somethng. The fact that the best and most exicting Spider-Man franchises of the last ten years, the movie,Ultimate and the cartoon have all featured an unmarried Peter should tell you something.

The Robot Parents. The Clone Saga. The Reboot/killing off MJ. One More Day. These are the absolute worst storylines in Spidey history, and they were all intended to build up to the return of a single Spidey...and they are all loathed by 90% of all Spider-fans.

As for the movie, it's pretty much inferred that Peter and MJ will be married. He was proposing to her in the last movie. Yeah...and he's been with MJ for 3 movies. They are REALLY pushing a single Spidey, there, as he does nothing but pursue one woman.

The cartoon, he's in high school, just like he was in the comics. Same with Ultimate. By the way, Bendis, who writes Ultimate said that he preferred a married Spidey in the 616...so there.

Also, the comics are supposed to inspire the other forms of the character, not the other way around. That should tell you something.

A one line descrpition doesn't mean anything. The actual story could be different.Like I said with Back to the Future II Marty McFly goes back to 1955 but it's a different story. In Ghostbusters II a ancient spirit is threatening New York but it is still a different story.

Well, not all remakes or rehashes are bad. No one is saying that. Spider-man Bllue was awesome. The Dawn of the Dead remake was awesome. It doesn't change the fact that they are rehashes of things that came before...and will never be considered as works all their own because of this.

No new does not equal good. But it could and maybe you should reserve your opinion on the quality of a story until you have, you know, read it.

Wow, you sure told me. I should buy things I'm not into to see if I'll like them. Maybe I should buy some golf clubs, since, you know, I hate golf.

I tried to like BND. Someone bought me part one of BND. It was okay. I read the next few parts on the store. They were okay....but nothing exciting and worth my money....and none of it required the marriage to be erased. So far, I've yet to see, read, or hear about one story that benefits from a single Spidey.

I've read enough BND, and yes, I TRIED to look past my prejudices to enjoy it, but having them wink at you and say this is different and that is different, but nothing is different, it gets old, and I'm not paying for it.

You can, though.
It was PG 13. And since when are all children preschoolers.



Yeah, he was talking about the comic industry as whole in an interview about BATMAN.



Kind of like the black cat, or the kingpin.[/QUOTE]

 

[moraldeficiency]

you know, shin, golf is a lot of fun if you're drunk.

 

[The Bruce]

Peter's 24-27 (or something like that) years old... Why is he acting like the 16-19 year old that he's not?

You need to see some real 16-17 year olds t: - Trust me he's waaaay more 24-27 than in his teens.

 

[shinlyle]

you know, shin, golf is a lot of fun if you're drunk.

So I've heard! However, I gave up drinking after my daughter was born...so it looks like I will never know the joys of drunken golfing.

 

[Styleshift]

1. Then how do you account for Spider-Man sales going up?
   [*] Neither will most superhero's and it worked OK for them. The fact that most of the problems with the Spider-Man books started after the marriage should tell you somethng. The fact that the best and most exicting Spider-Man franchises of the last ten years, the movie,Ultimate and the cartoon have all featured an unmarried Peter should tell you something.
   [*] A one line descrpition doesn't mean anything. The actual story could be different.Like I said with Back to the Future II Marty McFly goes back to 1955 but it's a different story. In Ghostbusters II a ancient spirit is threatening New York but it is still a different story.
   [*] No new does not equal good. But it could and maybe you should reserve your opinion on the quality of a story until you have, you know, read it.
   [*] It was PG 13. And since when are all children preschoolers.
   [*] Yeah, he was talking about the comic industry as whole in an interview about BATMAN.
   [*] Kind of like the black cat, or the kingpin.

1. They have been steadily going down for a while, boost most likely came from Steven Mcniven and Dan Slott being on the book... (2 big names)
2. The problems that marvel claims the marriage caused is only because they have been concentrating on getting rid of it than writing good stories within the context of it. Some of J.M. Demattais (oy) stories were made stronger because of the fact that they were newly weds.
3. screw this one
4. screw that one too.
5. and most people argue the dark knight should have been rated R. even some fans.
   
   Screw 6-7
   dude.....your ignoring alot of the underlining facts.

It's like the Pyrrhic war. sure its a FACT that he beat the romans....but at the expense of most of his men. its a true victory and a true lost at the same time.

thats how BND is....sure they are doing ok in sales by adding good writers and artist to the title and making it tri-monthly. but they STILL lost alot of their loyal fan base.

 

[Styleshift]

Sales have been declining steadily until recently. NWTD was an event, and featured to top creators. Of course sales went up. You could put Slott and Romita JR on Archie, and sales would skyrocket! We'll see where sales are after NWTD ends....ten we can talk numbers.





The Robot Parents. The Clone Saga. The Reboot/killing off MJ. One More Day. These are the absolute worst storylines in Spidey history, and they were all intended to build up to the return of a single Spidey...and they are all loathed by 90% of all Spider-fans.

As for the movie, it's pretty much inferred that Peter and MJ will be married. He was proposing to her in the last movie. Yeah...and he's been with MJ for 3 movies. They are REALLY pushing a single Spidey, there, as he does nothing but pursue one woman.

The cartoon, he's in high school, just like he was in the comics. Same with Ultimate. By the way, Bendis, who writes Ultimate said that he preferred a married Spidey in the 616...so there.

Also, the comics are supposed to inspire the other forms of the character, not the other way around. That should tell you something.



Well, not all remakes or rehashes are bad. No one is saying that. Spider-man Bllue was awesome. The Dawn of the Dead remake was awesome. It doesn't change the fact that they are rehashes of things that came before...and will never be considered as works all their own because of this.




Wow, you sure told me. I should buy things I'm not into to see if I'll like them. Maybe I should buy some golf clubs, since, you know, I hate golf.

I tried to like BND. Someone bought me part one of BND. It was okay. I read the next few parts on the store. They were okay....but nothing exciting and worth my money....and none of it required the marriage to be erased. So far, I've yet to see, read, or hear about one story that benefits from a single Spidey.

I've read enough BND, and yes, I TRIED to look past my prejudices to enjoy it, but having them wink at you and say this is different and that is different, but nothing is different, it gets old, and I'm not paying for it.

You can, though.
It was PG 13. And since when are all children preschoolers.



Yeah, he was talking about the comic industry as whole in an interview about BATMAN.



Kind of like the black cat, or the kingpin.

[/quote]

I did not even see this post before I posted and we pretty much hit the same notes....

CYBER HIGH FIVE! t:

 

[moraldeficiency]

So I've heard! However, I gave up drinking after my daughter was born...so it looks like I will never know the joys of drunken golfing.

quitter (not to be confused with the morally upright boycotter).

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Sales have been declining steadily until recently. NWTD was an event, and featured to top creators. Of course sales went up. You could put Slott and Romita JR on Archie, and sales would skyrocket! We'll see where sales are after NWTD ends....ten we can talk numbers.

No because you are measuring the indivdual sales of a thrice montly comic VS a once monthly comic. You have to compare all three issues with the three issues of Amazing, Sensational and Friendly Neighbourhood. When you do that, they go up.

The Robot Parents. The Clone Saga. The Reboot/killing off MJ. One More Day. These are the absolute worst storylines in Spidey history, and they were all intended to build up to the return of a single Spidey...and they are all loathed by 90% of all Spider-fans.

And where did you pull 90% from? What poll? The fact that they have been trying to get rid of the marriage for years should tell you something. Unless pretty much everybody who has been working on Spider-Man in that time was wrong.

As for the movie, it's pretty much inferred that Peter and MJ will be married. He was proposing to her in the last movie. Yeah...and he's been with MJ for 3 movies. They are REALLY pushing a single Spidey, there, as he does nothing but pursue one woman.

You mean implied. Have they implied that? They broke up in 3 and DIDN'T get back together and Peter decided he wasn't ready to be a husband. And he was after Betty and Gwen in 3. And Sam Raimi said it's up in the air if MJ will even be in 4 and 5.

The cartoon, he's in high school, just like he was in the comics. Same with Ultimate. By the way, Bendis, who writes Ultimate said that he preferred a married Spidey in the 616...so there.

Yeah because when he's young, he's better. And Bendis knows he's lost his trump card.

Also, the comics are supposed to inspire the other forms of the character, not the other way around. That should tell you something.

Really? Okay folks, we're getting rid of Kryptonite, the Batcave and Alfred is dead again.

Well, not all remakes or rehashes are bad. No one is saying that. Spider-man Bllue was awesome. The Dawn of the Dead remake was awesome. It doesn't change the fact that they are rehashes of things that came before...and will never be considered as works all their own because of this.

You haven't read the story, therefore can't know if it's a rehash.

Wow, you sure told me. I should buy things I'm not into to see if I'll like them. Maybe I should buy some golf clubs, since, you know, I hate golf.

I tried to like BND. Someone bought me part one of BND. It was okay. I read the next few parts on the store. They were okay....but nothing exciting and worth my money....and none of it required the marriage to be erased. So far, I've yet to see, read, or hear about one story that benefits from a single Spidey.

So you're mocking a story and demanding answers to stituations you have never read and have no intention of reading? Get a life.

I've read enough BND, and yes, I TRIED to look past my prejudices to enjoy it, but having them wink at you and say this is different and that is different, but nothing is different, it gets old, and I'm not paying for it.

Maybe you should judge the stories on the stories and not on interviews by the writers.

 

[shinlyle]

I did not even see this post before I posted and we pretty much hit the same notes....

CYBER HIGH FIVE! t:[/QUOTE]

CYBER RIGHT BACK AT YOU!t:

Yeah....now let's watch him ignore our points and tell us how wrong we are because he says so!

 

[moraldeficiency]

And where did you pull 90% from? What poll? The fact that they have been trying to get rid of the marriage for years should tell you something. Unless pretty much everybody who has been working on Spider-Man in that time was wrong.

And what does it mean that it's never stuck and sales have plummetted every time? Probably coincidence I'm sure.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

You need to see some real 16-17 year olds t: - Trust me he's waaaay more 24-27 than in his teens.

trust me... He's acting more like a teen than an adult... I've spent waay too much time with 14-17 year olds... (I'm a volunteer at the local community center... keeping kids off ther streets... Peter Parker, the teacher, was my inspiration to help...)

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

Yeah because when he's young, he's better. And Bendis knows he's lost his trump card.

But he's not that young... He's been on the Hero business nearly 10 years... why must he act like he got his powers last summer? bunch of rookie mistakes when he's a veteran in this game...

You haven't read the story, therefore can't know if it's a rehash.

can anyone enlighten Jack O' Lantern to the shh! post regarding BND Rehashing stories from the mackie era?

So you're mocking a story and demanding answers to stituations you have never read and have no intention of reading? Get a life.

Says the guy in a comic book forum whose username is from another comic book character... now that's funny... and yes I know that part of my username is based on another comic book character... you don't need to mention it... I'm not the one saying "Get a life..."

 

[moraldeficiency]

(I'm a volunteer at my community center... keeping kids off ther streets... Peter Parker, the teacher, was my inspiration to help...)

That's very cool.

 

[shinlyle]

No because you are measuring the indivdual sales of a thrice montly comic VS a once monthly comic. You have to compare all three issues with the three issues of Amazing, Sensational and Friendly Neighbourhood. When you do that, they go up.

Wow. So, now that completists have to buy the same comic 3 times a month to avoid gaps in their collection, the sales go up. Imagine that. Seriously, that argument is as tired as it is flawed. Also, Amazing isn't selling as well post OMD as it was pre-OMD (aside from NWTD)....but I guess we're ignoring that, right?

And where did you pull 90% from? What poll? The fact that they have been trying to get rid of the marriage for years should tell you something. Unless pretty much everybody who has been working on Spider-Man in that time was wrong.

I pulled the 90% from the same place you seem to be pulling all of your assumptions. Well, the creators working on Spider-Man during those times WERE wrong, otherwise, the sale wouldn't have been so abyssmal. Look at the 90's figures when they weren't trying to get rid of the marriage. BND can't even dream that high, and you know it. Of course, the market was a little more fertile then, but I suppose I can just compare all the numbers I want...you do.

You mean implied. Have they implied that? They broke up in 3 and DIDN'T get back together and Peter decided he wasn't ready to be a husband. And he was after Betty and Gwen in 3. And Sam Raimi said it's up in the air if MJ will even be in 4 and 5.

Only the person speaking can imply something. You can only infer from an implication. They didn't get back together? I know I don't typically hold my ex and slow-dance while we share some meaningful tears. Raimi never said that it was up in the air whether or not MJ would be in 4, he simply said he didn't know if Dunst would be in 4, which, by the way, she said she wanted to be, so, there goes that argument.

Yeah because when he's young, he's better. And Bendis knows he's lost his trump card.

What does that even mean? Do you even hear yourself, or do you drift in and out ala Peter Griffin from Family Guy?

Really? Okay folks, we're getting rid of Kryptonite, the Batcave and Alfred is dead again.

Thanks for reminding me why I don't read DC...good job!

You haven't read the story, therefore can't know if it's a rehash.

Yes....yes I can. The synopsis of each issue is damn near the same...so it will be similar. It is still a rehash, but that doesn't mean it will be the same story...am I getting through to you at all?

So you're mocking a story and demanding answers to stituations you have never read and have no intention of reading? Get a life.

Says the guy arguing with me on the internet...are you even reading any of this?

Maybe you should judge the stories on the stories and not on interviews by the writers.

Right...because how a person feels about the stories they are writing will in no way affect the outcome of the story. Ugh.

Honestly, this is like arguing with a brick wall....and even less fun.

 

[imdaly]

um... I don't see what my age has to do with the fact that Peter's been acting like he just got his powers when he's had them for almost 10 years... also some writers seem to write him like a Teenager when he's on his 20s... not gonna say any names but one of them sounds like Bend This...

I asked because I'm wondering if perhaps you're not in your mid 20s yet. I say this because I myself am 25 years old, and I have to say that Peter's been acting a whole lot like I do at this age, and I don't see him as acting like a teenager at all. I don't mean this as an insult to you at all, so please don't take it that way. I just know that when I was younger, 25-yr-olds seemed to be so much more...older or mature than I was, but now that I'm 25 myself I realize there's not that much of a difference at all between a 19 yr old and a 25 yr old.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

none taken...

 

[moraldeficiency]

I asked because I'm wondering if perhaps you're not in your mid 20s yet. I say this because I myself am 25 years old, and I have to say that Peter's been acting a whole lot like I do at this age, and I don't see him as acting like a teenager at all. I don't mean this as an insult to you at all, so please don't take it that way. I just know that when I was younger, 25-yr-olds seemed to be so much more...older or mature than I was, but now that I'm 25 myself I realize there's not that much of a difference at all between a 19 yr old and a 25 yr old.

I'll differ on that. At 19 I was a new immigrant to the country and was shipped very green to iraq, I'm a completely different person now. Maybe, and I don't mean this to insult you, you didn't get enough life experience the last six years.

 

[bryanss3]

Um to anything about Stan Lee's involvement with writing comics probably past the 90's i'm pretty sure he barely knows whats going on. I saw an interview with him asking anout the next spider-man movie after 3 came out and the interviewer mention OMD and stan went"What they killed her!!!!!" referring to May Parker being shot.

 

[farmernudie]

JACK OLANTERN: No because you are measuring the indivdual sales of a thrice montly comic VS a once monthly comic. You have to compare all three issues with the three issues of Amazing, Sensational and Friendly Neighbourhood. When you do that, they go up.

Actually...that is an inaccurate comparison totally.

You've got to compare Amazing back then mulitplied by three.

Thus, current amazing times three is selling LESS.

And that is taking into account that OLD amazing wasn't even marketed or done in a 3X style or with top artists or mulitple covers. Current 3X amazing is.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

But he's not that young... He's been on the Hero business nearly 10 years... why must he act like he got his powers last summer? bunch of rookie mistakes when he's a veteran in this game...

He's always acted that way. He always dives in over his head. Even during JMS's run he did so. He was told to go into hiding when Morlun showed up because he couldn't beat him, instead he jumped head first into battle. He's a screw up.

can anyone enlighten Jack O' Lantern to the shh! post regarding BND Rehashing stories from the mackie era?

Yeah I saw that. Please enlighten me as to how you judge a story you have not read?

Says the guy in a comic book forum whose username is from another comic book character... now that's funny... and yes I know that part of my username is based on another comic book character... you don't need to mention it... I'm not the one saying "Get a life..."

What's any off that got to do with having a life? That's not why I told him to get a life.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Wow. So, now that completists have to buy the same comic 3 times a month to avoid gaps in their collection, the sales go up. Imagine that. Seriously, that argument is as tired as it is flawed. Also, Amazing isn't selling as well post OMD as it was pre-OMD (aside from NWTD)....but I guess we're ignoring that, right?

How many completists do you think there are? It is not flawed argument, the idea was to boast sales overall, the money men do not care where the money is coming from. If they're making more money then it's a sucess.

I pulled the 90% from the same place you seem to be pulling all of your assumptions. Well, the creators working on Spider-Man during those times WERE wrong, otherwise, the sale wouldn't have been so abyssmal. Look at the 90's figures when they weren't trying to get rid of the marriage. BND can't even dream that high, and you know it. Of course, the market was a little more fertile then, but I suppose I can just compare all the numbers I want...you do.

I'm not working from assumptions, I'm working from figures and interviews by the people in charge.

Only the person speaking can imply something. You can only infer from an implication. They didn't get back together? I know I don't typically hold my ex and slow-dance while we share some meaningful tears. Raimi never said that it was up in the air whether or not MJ would be in 4, he simply said he didn't know if Dunst would be in 4, which, by the way, she said she wanted to be, so, there goes that argument.

Yes, so you're infering, they're implying.
So a dance equals getting back together? And what he said was:

"Kirsten, I'd love to work with her again. I hope she'll be written into it. I couldn't imagine making one without her, and I think she's an important part of the movies."

What does that even mean? Do you even hear yourself, or do you drift in and out ala Peter Griffin from Family Guy?

It means that one of the major reasons Ultimate Spider-Man was successful was because fans wanted a young, single Spidey, a Spidey they weren't getting in 616. Now they are and Bendis probably doesn't like that.

Thanks for reminding me why I don't read DC...good job!

Nice dodge. But Batman and Superman are two of the three most popular hero's ever, and they got some of their more popular elements from other mediums, whether you read it or not is irelevant.

Yes....yes I can. The synopsis of each issue is damn near the same...so it will be similar. It is still a rehash, but that doesn't mean it will be the same story...am I getting through to you at all?

How can it be a rehash if the story is new?

Says the guy arguing with me on the internet...are you even reading any of this?

There is a world of difference talking about something you enjoy, and spending 10 months complaining about something you don't even read. I used to watch Smallville, now I find it boring so don't watch and therefor don't discuss it. If Spider-Man, the character who I have followed since I was seven, ever became boring to me, I would stop reading it and not complain for 10 months afterwards.

Right...because how a person feels about the stories they are writing will in no way affect the outcome of the story. Ugh.

Honestly, this is like arguing with a brick wall....and even less fun.

Of course what they feel about the story will affect the outcome but that's not my point. I'll use an example to illsurtae my point. People are complaining about the fact that they can't get emotionally involved in a Peter relationship, because they know it can only go so far. A fan who doesn't read those interviews, has no idea that Peter can't get married again, so that fan can easily get inolved in a Peter relationship. It's like reading a spolier and then being anrgy that you're not suprised when you read the comic.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

He's always acted that way. He always dives in over his head. Even during JMS's run he did so. He was told to go into hiding when Morlun showed up because he couldn't beat him, instead he jumped head first into battle. He's a screw up.

Hiding = not doing anything... Not doing anything = Dead Uncle Ben to Peter... He HAS to act, because of his irresponsibility he lost Uncle Ben... hence the WGPCGR...
But ever since BND started He's been doing way too many rookie mistakes. Running out of webbing during the first issues... Paper Doll, etc.

Yeah I saw that. Please enlighten me as to how you judge a story you have not read?

BND has shown a pattern of Rehashing... So far this story is pointing out in the same direction... another Rehash... There might be a slight chance that they'll surprise us... but so far everything points to a rehash...

If it looks like a turd and smells like a turd, chances are that it is a turd... It's kinda like seeing a couple of Uwe Boll movies and then reading that he's directing another videogame movie... without seeing the movie there is a high % that it'll suck...

What's any off that got to do with having a life? That's not why I told him to get a life.

I just pointed out that we're IN a comic book forum and you're telling him to get a life... that's funny... add the fact that your username happens to be the same as another comic book character... it makes it more funny...