Spike Lee To Direct 'Oldboy' remake

[Mrs. Sawyer]

People should learn to enjoy subtitles.

Subtitles is a preference, not a requirement. There are people who just don't like subtitles. Me, I don't mind them at all. I love watching foreign movies and I don't mind subtitles.

I go to Syracuse University for film, which is the one the top 20 film schools in the world. Why do I mention that? It's because the head of the film department there is one of the smartest guys I know about film. He's been there since the start of the film school in the 70s, and loves foreign movies. He watches them all the time, in many different languages.

With that said, he told me and my senior class that he despite the fact that he loves foreign movies, he still to this day hates reading subtitles, and merely tolerates it in order to enjoy the experience. He's a man who loves film, and hates subtitles.

Why do I mention this? It's because even the smartest and the biggest lovers of film can hate subtitles. He may not be turned off by it, but it doesn't mean other people are worse for not liking it and finding it a turnoff for watching a movie because I understand that some people just won't watch movies with subtitles. The cinephiles will tolerate it, but it doesn't mean it's loved.

But what about the people who aren't cinephiles, or movie buffs, or peopel who aren't as huge on film as others? Movies get dubbed, but more often than not dubbings have terrible audio quality to them and they don't sync up right.

Not everyone likes reading subtitles during movies, nor do they like distracting audio. They just want to experience the story in their natural language. I don't judge them, nor do I have a problem with it. Yes, I understand that this isn't the reason movies are remade, but I don't find foreign remakes a problem if the remake is good.

This movie however, seems to have been screwed by the producers, predictably so even though I tried to remain optimistic about it.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

By that logic, why remake anything? Some of the iconic flicks from yesteryear are remakes.

You film hipsters.

Exactly. That "Don't remake if you can't make it better" is a silly argument. So no one should remake Shakespeare's stories? Or old Greek Tradgedies after they were created? Should we ignore American classics because they are remakes of foreign movies? The answer is obvious.

To bring the story over ? Is there some trade embargo to the rest of the world ? There's certainly a dub for people who have problems reading.

It has nothing to do with snobbish attiudes. Is a lazy , uninspired choice to grab someones else work and simply copy it and call it his own.

Just imagine if all movies would get remade. Just imagine that. From everywhere and every single place. Copying it over and over to "bring the story over"

Have you tried watching the dub of Oldboy? I remember when Netflix had the dub a few years ago (when they didn't have the Korean language version that I thought they had) and the dubbing was terrible. I watched a few scenes and skipped around and it ruins the vibe and tone of the movie because the awful audio takes you out of it.

Remakes can be a good or a bad thing. You have had good foreign remakes like The Departed, Magnicificent Seven, Some Like it Hot, True Lies, A Fistful of Dollars, and you had terrible ones like Bangkok Dangerous, Godzilla, Taxi, and others.

 

[dark_b]

''We don't really do much reading''

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Thanks for the mature response after I spent two posts explaining my opinion on the situation.

 

[Tequilla]

I dont watch dubbed versions of anything . Even with books i have problems with the translations . But i believe its terrible. t: But it's there . It's a choice given.

I'll never understand this subtitle thing. Every child here can do it. Why would it be difficult to a grown up ? Yes , there's obviously 1% that might have a problem...but its such a small fraction.

I understand , like Parker Wayne wrote , that some people only tolerate them , but hey that's what's needed. The solution can't be put in these terms..its either reading or well let's just copy a movie so people who don't read subtitles can see it.

 

[Tequilla]

I was reading about Lee being pissed that they cut (or did a small cut) in the hallway scene...and i was thinking , why the hell he's pissed when he is carbon copying a scene ??!?!?! That's just madness. At least put your own spin. Do it completely different. But copying it brick by brick....come on !!!

 

[dark_b]

Thanks for the mature response after I spent two posts explaining my opinion on the situation.

what else could i do?

''With that said, he told me and my senior class that he despite the fact that he loves foreign movies, he still to this day hates reading subtitles, and merely tolerates it in order to enjoy the experience. He's a man who loves film, and hates subtitles. ''

who doesnt tolerate reading subtitles? who on this planet LIKES reading subtittles? they are part of the foreign movies. we dont understand what they are saying so we f... read.


i dont have a problem that some dont like reading subtitles. i have a problem when someone refuses to watch a movie because he doesnt want to read.

 

[DA_Champion]

Exactly. That "Don't remake if you can't make it better" is a silly argument. So no one should remake Shakespeare's stories? Or old Greek Tradgedies after they were created? Should we ignore American classics because they are remakes of foreign movies? The answer is obvious.

Those aren't remakes, those are adaptations. A lot of the Greek tragedies and Shakespeare plays have never been made into movies (or good movies). Once somebody makes a very good version though, I'd say there's no point in making it again.

But... when do you think that the American classic The Godfather should be remade?

 

[DA_Champion]

Subtitles is a preference, not a requirement. There are people who just don't like subtitles. Me, I don't mind them at all. I love watching foreign movies and I don't mind subtitles.

I go to Syracuse University for film, which is the one the top 20 film schools in the world. Why do I mention that? It's because the head of the film department there is one of the smartest guys I know about film. He's been there since the start of the film school in the 70s, and loves foreign movies. He watches them all the time, in many different languages.

With that said, he told me and my senior class that he despite the fact that he loves foreign movies, he still to this day hates reading subtitles, and merely tolerates it in order to enjoy the experience. He's a man who loves film, and hates subtitles.

Why do I mention this? It's because even the smartest and the biggest lovers of film can hate subtitles. He may not be turned off by it, but it doesn't mean other people are worse for not liking it and finding it a turnoff for watching a movie because I understand that some people just won't watch movies with subtitles. The cinephiles will tolerate it, but it doesn't mean it's loved.

But what about the people who aren't cinephiles, or movie buffs, or peopel who aren't as huge on film as others? Movies get dubbed, but more often than not dubbings have terrible audio quality to them and they don't sync up right.

Not everyone likes reading subtitles during movies, nor do they like distracting audio. They just want to experience the story in their natural language. I don't judge them, nor do I have a problem with it. Yes, I understand that this isn't the reason movies are remade, but I don't find foreign remakes a problem if the remake is good.

This movie however, seems to have been screwed by the producers, predictably so even though I tried to remain optimistic about it.

Let's cut the bullsh'it and be honest about why these remakes are done.

A lot of people are taught to be completely dismissive and ignorant of the rest of the world, and to view it as inferior. People don't like foreign films because ... they are seen as inferior. They instinctively respond to foreign movies, with their different feel and different language, and see them as boring.

And thus we end up with The Departed, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, and Oldboy, when people would be better off watching the originals. You go to any American movie theatre and no less than 95% of the movies are domestic. You look up the oscars and the only foreign film to win best pictures in recent history is the UK film The King's Speech.

Ultimately people better start learning to enjoy subtitles soon, because American dominance of the global film industry is going to decline quite fast in the medium term.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

And thus we end up with The Departed, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, and Oldboy, when people would be better off watching the originals. You go to any American movie theatre and no less than 95% of the movies are domestic. You look up the oscars and the only foreign film to win best pictures in recent history is the UK film The King's Speech.

You're really gonna lump in Oldboy with The Departed and Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, two American remakes that were highly praised. With the Departed, it did separate it's identity from Infernal Affairs to have a unique enough American feel to it.

I like Infernal Affairs, and I like The Departed: Am I wrong for liking both? Am I wrong for saying I like that both movies exist? Am I wrong for saying that I like that Scorsese took and remade this story? I like and enjoy the Departed more than Infernal Affairs. Am I wrong that I like it more?

Let's cut the bullsh'it and be honest about why these remakes are done.

A lot of people are taught to be completely dismissive and ignorant of the rest of the world, and to view it as inferior. People don't like foreign films because ... they are seen as inferior. They instinctively respond to foreign movies, with their different feel and different language, and see them as boring.

Ultimately people better start learning to enjoy subtitles soon, because American dominance of the global film industry is going to decline quite fast in the medium term.

I actually agree with all this. There's not one word I don't agree with. I think more people should watch foreign films, but I am realistic about it. Most people, especially Middle America doesn't like to read subtitles with their movies. Me and you both know that foreign movies will not be "mainstream" anytime soon. I accept it as a preference thing because I know people just don't like reading it. There are many people in US who feel the same way, and you won't get them to change their minds.

Those aren't remakes, those are adaptations. A lot of the Greek tragedies and Shakespeare plays have never been made into movies (or good movies). Once somebody makes a very good version though, I'd say there's no point in making it again.

Actually, a lot of Shakespeare plays (well, the ones that still exist today) have been made into the movies.

They may be adaptations, but it doesn't take away from the fact that the work was made into a movie already. There are a good amount of them are straight up adaptations that do not add anything new. Does it mean we shouldn't make another Romeo and Juliet, or another Hamlet movie because it's been made already?


Subtitles aside, who is anyone to say that a work can't be remade in another language? I'm just tired of the absolutist personalities that say a film can't be remade in another language because personally, I don't just think, but I know it is a very snobbish thing to say. Saying that movies can't be remade at all is as close-minded and as snooby as the people you described in your post earlier about seeing a foreign work as inferior. From what you are saying in your post. You are immediately saying that works like The Departed and Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (US version) shouldn't exist because they are an American remake of foreign movie (or in the Departed's case, movies).

But... when do you think that the American classic The Godfather should be remade?

I go but the belief that if it's a good movie, I'll watch it. If a Godfather remake is good, I'll watch it. Sure, there's huge shoes to fill, and it most likely won't top the original, but I will always be able to watch the original. Let's cut the BS and say why people hate remakes. They feel that their love for the original movie will decline if there is another work that is in greater public awareness than the original movie.

Who am I to say that a movie shouldn't exist? What is the criteria for a movie to exist? I always hated that the phrase "There is no reason that a movie shoudn't exist."

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

i dont have a problem that some dont like reading subtitles. i have a problem when someone refuses to watch a movie because he doesnt want to read.

It's just the way it goes. It's as much a preference as not liking action movies, or musicals, or such.

 

[DA_Champion]

I go but the belief that if it's a good movie, I'll watch it. If a Godfather remak Let's cut the BS and say why people hate remakes. They feel that their love for the original movie will decline if there is another work that is in greater public awareness than the original movie.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

If somebody tops the original, more power to them, but there are reasons why it is extremely unlikely. If something is iconic, then that means it is already near-perfect, and therefore it won't be topped.

*******************

Another example of a remake is Star Trek into Darkness. Again, one sees the problem. Did it take away my love for the original as you suggest? No.

 

[DA_Champion]

It's just the way it goes. It's as much a preference as not liking action movies, or musicals, or such.

No, it's not. Not liking action movies is an aesthetic preference. Hating subtitled movies as a matter of principle is an act of cultural privilege and ignorance.

 

[Eddie Dean]

They really buried this thing. It's playing absolutely nowhere near me.

 

[Loki882]

Where do you come up with this stuff?

If somebody tops the original, more power to them, but there are reasons why it is extremely unlikely. If something is iconic, then that means it is already near-perfect, and therefore it won't be topped.

*******************

Another example of a remake is Star Trek into Darkness. Again, one sees the problem. Did it take away my love for the original as you suggest? No.

Star Trek Into Darkness is not a remake. Taking a few elements from an older film does not automatically make it an out and out remake. It's called homage. And no, just because a movie is fantastic doesn't automatically mean that NO ONE can EVER put a new spin on it and also make a fantastic movie. That's not how it works and to argue that is foolish.

 

[dark_b]

ST2 is a big ''homage''. so big that i get why some say that its a reamake.

 

[DA_Champion]

Star Trek Into Darkness is not a remake. Taking a few elements from an older film does not automatically make it an out and out remake. It's called homage. And no, just because a movie is fantastic doesn't automatically mean that NO ONE can EVER put a new spin on it and also make a fantastic movie. That's not how it works and to argue that is foolish.

I was deliberately exaggerating when I called STID a remake. It's actually creative bankruptcy masquerading as an homage.

If it is the case that something is fantastic, then it does mean that it will be extremely difficult to make a better version of it. There are fewer ways to make a good story then to make a bad story, and there are even fewer ways to make a great story. Once something is great... you probably have a delicate equilibrium, where things are fitting together in more ways than you realise. A typical change, to use hypothetically representative numbers, might have a 1% chance of making things better, and a 99% chance of making things worse.

That is why most remakes fail to match the magic of the original. Only great movies are remade, and it is very hard to either produce or reproduce greatness, even with a crib sheet.

 

[Hush]

Let's cut the bullsh'it and be honest about why these remakes are done.

A lot of people are taught to be completely dismissive and ignorant of the rest of the world, and to view it as inferior. People don't like foreign films because ... they are seen as inferior. They instinctively respond to foreign movies, with their different feel and different language, and see them as boring.

And thus we end up with The Departed, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, and Oldboy, when people would be better off watching the originals. You go to any American movie theatre and no less than 95% of the movies are domestic. You look up the oscars and the only foreign film to win best pictures in recent history is the UK film The King's Speech.

Ultimately people better start learning to enjoy subtitles soon, because American dominance of the global film industry is going to decline quite fast in the medium term.

I enjoy subtitles but I enjoy when a movie is remade for American audiences because honestly I prefer Leo and Nicholson over some Asian actor i'm not aware of, it allows me to connect better with the characters and get more involved in the story. I do not see Foreign Films as inferior but as just that Foreign, they aren't made for American audiences and thus lack some American sensibilities that are ever present in our day to day life. These films are not boring but different and having a remake made of them makes sense so that American audiences can have some stuff to see that is relatable.

ST2 is a big ''homage''. so big that i get why some say that its a reamake.

This is a gross exaggeration. This is a not so accurate statement.

 

[Teelie]

Turns out the poster for this movie is stolen and Spike Lee doesn't care.

In an open letter to film director Spike Lee designer Juan Luis Garcia accuses the makers of “Oldboy” of stealing his artwork for the movie poster.

Garcia explains that he was invited by an ad agency to create the designs. After putting two months of work into his designs were picked, but a deal was never made since the agency made an extremely low offer for the licensing buyout fee.

According to the designer the ad agency went on to make several threats, and he never saw a penny for the work he’d done.

“They told me that I didn’t want to mess with Spike Lee, that I would never work again, that I was a despicable human, that they wish they never met me, and that they were going to sue my ass to oblivion.”

Garcia didn’t care too much about the lost income and was happy he could put the trouble behind him. However, this all changed quickly this week when he saw the official “Oldboy” poster.

“Last night I was browsing the internet and my jaw dropped when I stumbled upon your personal and your production company’s social media pages. I couldn’t believe that you had been using and claiming copyright on three of those very same posters I designed,” Garcia writes to Lee.

The comparison below explains the designer’s disbelief.

With his open letter Garcia asks the filmmaker to look into the issue, hoping that there might be a possibility to get some recognition.

“I need you to know the truth. Some of the posters you are using were stolen from me. I tried my hardest to resolve this amicably but the agency just blatantly refused. I am a fan of your storytelling and respect your success as a filmmaker, artist, and person,” he writes.

“I hope we can resolve this between us because the agency refuses to work with me and they have tormented me and my family enough. Please feel free contact me at your convenience.”

Unfortunately for Garcia, Spike Lee isn’t really impressed by his cry for help. The film director responded to his letter on Twitter today, showing no grain of sympathy.

TorrentFreak

 

[TheVileOne]

They really buried this thing. It's playing absolutely nowhere near me.

I'm not surprised. When it comes right down to it, Hollywood will not commit or not fully get behind a story with well you know.

Just as I never sincerely believed Will Smith or Steven Spielberg would ever seriously entertain or attach themselves to this. I think they found the acclaim and cult appeal the original had interesting and wanted to get a piece of that but not actually be a part of a story where the hero basically does what he does.

 

[TheVileOne]

Turns out the poster for this movie is stolen and Spike Lee doesn't care.

TorrentFreak

I get the sense that Lee has already emotionally moved on from this project.

Plus the art thing is probably not something he has anything to do with or have say over in this case.

 

[bullets]

I thought it was good. Maybe not for someone who has watched the original several times but it worked for me and Brolin was perfect for the role.



As for remakes . They'll always be there . I like when they do something different , but that doesn't always work either. Your not going to convince everyone to watch a subtitled movie. Which is a shame because they dont know what they are missing . At the same time let's be reasonable and not live in a fantasy world where everyone appreciates foreign films. I just feel fortunate to have seen most originals and can decide which one I prefer.

 

[TheVileOne]

We also live in a world where I truly believe more often than not the remakes are not as good as the original. I'm not saying they can't be. But the most recent ones haven't been.

 

[jacobed]

I'm not surprised. When it comes right down to it, Hollywood will not commit or not fully get behind a story with well you know.

Just as I never sincerely believed Will Smith or Steven Spielberg would ever seriously entertain or attach themselves to this. I think they found the acclaim and cult appeal the original had interesting and wanted to get a piece of that but not actually be a part of a story where the hero basically does what he does.

Spielberg dropped out because of a lawsuit going on with the original which was affecting thos one getting made. Is it seeing a wide release, hard to call it a bomb when it only debuts in 583 screens

 

[Octoberist]

Condsidering that it cost 30 million to make, it ain't a hit either. 800,000 is sadly a bomb. Now if the movie cost 2 million and got that amount, that would different.