Spoilers - yay or nay?

Flint Marko

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2016 is without question the biggest year yet for superhero films. In light of this, with BvS only 22 days away, I began wondering how many regulars here at the hype don't mind being spoiled vs. how many actively avoid spoilers.
For reference, I would consider anything not officially released by the studio to be a spoiler. I also think there's some debate in just how much of a "spoiler" the marketing materials are when you are this close to release - for example, I accidentally stumbled upon several things regarding BvS that I would've rather not known on marketing materials released by WB.
I'm definitely a no spoilers guy. I even avoid TV spots just so I can see the smallest amount of footage possible. I like going into movies blindly. Admittedly it's more rewarding for certain films than others - I went into Winter Soldier knowing almost nothing and was on the edge of my seat at every turn, but it doesn't matter as much for other films.
This could maybe go into the misc films thread but given this is the year of superheroes, I felt it appropriate to put it here
With that being said, would you generally say you are for or against spoilers? And why?
 
I've always done my best to avoid them. I like the surprises to be revealed in the movie, lately the trailers are cut in a way that revealse much more than I would like. After the trailers for Amazing Spider-Man 2 were basically the whole movie condensed in 2 and a half minutes I've tried to avoid those as well. A rule of thumb I try to stick to is only watching what I can see on the big screen, as in opening previews. I broke that rule for the Civil War trailer and after watching it on my phone like 10 times it was way better when i finally saw it in the cinema. I do enjoy seeing the first images of a film, characters and what not, as they are slowly put out by the studio.

I guess there was a study done a while ago that found most people enjoy being spoiled before a movie so they know what to expect or something? Sounds whack to me, but my brother, who loves finding out every little detail he can before release, was quick to forward it to me.
 
I actively try to avoid them, at least for the films I truly care about. There are certain folders and topics I won't even go in for several months up to release.
 
I've seen that article you're referring to, OcStat. I don't really buy it.
 
I like knowing what I'm going to see regarding movies whose productions I follow since I generally don't like surprises, good or bad ones.
 
If it's something that I've been following from announcement to release like BvS and CW then I like spoilers. I read so many theories and rumors about these movies that I want to know what happens before I see it. I remember going into TDK thinking Two-Face was going to blow up one of the ferries and I don't want something like that to happen again.
 
It's funny how toys are ruining scenes. Lego has spoiled aspects in both BvS and CW.

Meanwhile, Disney did a good job not showing Rey with a lightsaber for Star Wars.
 
Depends on how big the spoilers are and how much I'm looking forward to the movie, though I never actively seek out spoilers.

If it's a film I know of well in advance and I'm really looking forward to it (Civil War), I don't want to know too much. First couple of trailers & what the set up is, is good enough, I'll tune out when the TV spots & more detailed info starts coming in.

For a film I know of well in advance but I'm just midly curious of (BvS), it doesn't really matter.

I don't get angry when someone spoils a film I wasn't even aware of, of a film that's been out for years.
 
Generally I am for spoilers. It doesn't ruin the movie for me, in fact if they're good spoilers they just make me anticipate the movie even more. If they're bad, well at least I'm prepared for the letdown when I see it.
 
I saw a post yesterday regarding those Lego Civil War sets that revealed a character I would have rather not known about until I saw the movie in May.
 
Generally I am for spoilers. It doesn't ruin the movie for me, in fact if they're good spoilers they just make me anticipate the movie even more. If they're bad, well at least I'm prepared for the letdown when I see it.

That's something we agree on.

I feel exactly the same way. If something really **** is going to happen in a film I'm excited about, I need to know going in - so I don't get outraged in the cinema.

And yeah, if something truly awesome happens in the film I want to prepare myself for it with some serious hype.

Of course, there are exceptions to every rule !

Certain spoilers like those in 7even, the Sixth Sense, Usual suspects, well those would indeed ruin the film - but twist endings are a whole different level.

I know some mother@#$^&* who ruined 2 of the aforementioned films for a close friend of mine, and that's really unforgiveable !
 
I try to avoid at all costs, but in this day & age with marketing of films the way it is, it's incredibly difficult.
 
I've heard that, generally speaking, millennials like spoilers while older generations don't. I'm 23 and avoid spoilers so I don't know what truth there is to that.
 
I avoid spoilers, whether it's a CBM or anything else.
 
It depends on the movie, but what I *definitely* hate? Smugly self-righteous people who deliberately go about spoiling something, and then quoting one of those studies to justify why they are really doing you a favor.
 
I am definitely in favour of them. Give me everything and anything.

If they reveal something good, the excitement goes up. If they reveal something bad, expectations get lowered accordingly. Even if they reveal nothing of note, discussing them here provides me with a bounty of entertainment on night shifts at work.
 
It depends, I avoid spoilers when it comes to most movies like the DC and MCU movies but X-Men films??? I can't help but get spoiled.
 
Yay. If I can't enjoy a movie with prior knowledge of the plot, then it probably isn't very good in the first place. With that said, I don't go out of my way to spoil details for others, as this is only my personal view on the matter.

Generally, if the details are good, no matter how revelatory they are, it only increases my hype. I wouldn't be able to re-watch my favorite movies and shows (same goes for literature) if knowing the plot ruined the experience.
 
I don't really feel like spoilers ruin anything, I guess?

I mean, I do my best to not post anything I think is a spoiler out of respect for others, of course, and I believe if you are part of a group you should always adhere to the basic respect principal. But on the other hand, people have been reading Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde for generations knowing the "twist" ending and yet it is still a solid read, you know?

I feel like if the only thing you are getting from a book, movie, etc is basic plot information (this happened, than this, than this, and all of that lead to this...) than really that story has failed to be interesting in most meaningful ways. The other aspects - the experience of going through the journey with the characters, the enjoyment of word play and delivery, a connection with the characters, etc - that stuff is much more difficult to spoil. It usually doesn't come in the form of easy to communicate, objective information.
 
I don't really feel like spoilers ruin anything, I guess?

I mean, I do my best to not post anything I think is a spoiler out of respect for others, of course, and I believe if you are part of a group you should always adhere to the basic respect principal. But on the other hand, people have been reading Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde for generations knowing the "twist" ending and yet it is still a solid read, you know?

I feel like if the only thing you are getting from a book, movie, etc is basic plot information (this happened, than this, than this, and all of that lead to this...) than really that story has failed to be interesting in most meaningful ways. The other aspects - the experience of going through the journey with the characters, the enjoyment of word play and delivery, a connection with the characters, etc - that stuff is much more difficult to spoil. It usually doesn't come in the form of easy to communicate, objective information.

A spoiler doesn't have to downright ruin something in order to have a negative effect. A good story should work well even with knowing the big secret, but when you know if from the start you're robbed of having both experiences of the story. Experiencing the story fresh, being taken on the mystery ride, and experiencing how it fits together when you have previous knowledge are two different, but potentially equally enjoyable, experiences. But even if they are equal, only getting one is then inferior to getting both.

It will have to be balanced with how much enjoyment you get out of reading or hearing about it while you're desperately waiting for the movie to come out though. I tend to think it's worth waiting though. That first experience of a great movie is really memorable. The memory of reading a big spoiler is less so, so I think that's more short term fun.
 
Mjölnir;33177661 said:
A spoiler doesn't have to downright ruin something in order to have a negative effect. A good story should work well even with knowing the big secret, but when you know if from the start you're robbed of having both experiences of the story. Experiencing the story fresh, being taken on the mystery ride, and experiencing how it fits together when you have previous knowledge are two different, but potentially equally enjoyable, experiences. But even if they are equal, only getting one is then inferior to getting both.

It will have to be balanced with how much enjoyment you get out of reading or hearing about it while you're desperately waiting for the movie to come out though. I tend to think it's worth waiting though. That first experience of a great movie is really memorable. The memory of reading a big spoiler is less so, so I think that's more short term fun.

I can understand that, but honestly I think that waiting around for that reveal can cause you to lose so much of the movie. That's why you hear people say that they need to watch a movie a second time to really appreciate/get it/judge it. Or if you attend certain Shakespeare plays, they'll give you a full page summary before the show. When you know what is going to happen you relax, your brain takes in more details, and you actually pay attention to what is happening instead of your subconscious racing about to connect story lines and fill plot holes and figure out the ending and brace itself for the next scene change.

It's an unbraced brain. It's a brain that's sitting next to you inching forward in it's seat chanting "waitforitwaitforitwaitforit" through the whole movie.

Which makes it sound like I'm saying you HAVE to be spoiled for a movie, when that's obviously untrue. And I don't want to say the first unprepared experience is totally invalid. I just don't think it "ruins" anything, which is one of those hyperbolic claims some people make. I mean, maybe it's not exaggerated in the least. Maybe their entire enjoyment of a movie is based solely on that first view and finding out the basic plot, but if that's the case I just feel like they're missing out on so much.

Personally, if I could only choose one, I would easily choose to go in knowing the plot details rather than blind. Then again, for ME the best way to experience almost any movie/show is knowing the basic outline and with someone to actively talk and comment on it while it happens (hell, speaking with peers/reading criticism in between chapters is my favorite ways to read books, and they're suppose to be the least social of the media). Because for me the best things about media are the style, themes, tones, etc. Things you can't spoil via spilled details and often things that develop further under discussion. But I know that people watch things for different reasons. Some people are super visual and really enjoy the filmography, the choreography, those visual flairs. I'm not against those things. Actually, I wish I appreciated them more. One reason I love online discussions is the chance to talk with more visual people and who know about those things and how they effect your viewing experience. Some people analyze costumes, and I love reading detailed discussions of those who break down what a character's clothes mean and why those elements speak volumes. And music! I wish I were more educated about musical theory but it's probably the artistic/creative theory I have the least knowledge about, and obviously there are others out there who have very different strengths and areas of interest. And, yeah, there are also things that I probably unconsciously give less merit than those others, but that really are just as valid as any reason for personally enjoying something. If that thing is the twist and turns and plot surprises than of course they should get to have that. That's why I try and be careful about spoilers (since I don't mind them I don't naturally think of them, and things I wouldn't consider at all spoilerish others do).
 
I can understand that, but honestly I think that waiting around for that reveal can cause you to lose so much of the movie. That's why you hear people say that they need to watch a movie a second time to really appreciate/get it/judge it. Or if you attend certain Shakespeare plays, they'll give you a full page summary before the show. When you know what is going to happen you relax, your brain takes in more details, and you actually pay attention to what is happening instead of your subconscious racing about to connect story lines and fill plot holes and figure out the ending and brace itself for the next scene change.

It's an unbraced brain. It's a brain that's sitting next to you inching forward in it's seat chanting "waitforitwaitforitwaitforit" through the whole movie.

Which makes it sound like I'm saying you HAVE to be spoiled for a movie, when that's obviously untrue. And I don't want to say the first unprepared experience is totally invalid. I just don't think it "ruins" anything, which is one of those hyperbolic claims some people make. I mean, maybe it's not exaggerated in the least. Maybe their entire enjoyment of a movie is based solely on that first view and finding out the basic plot, but if that's the case I just feel like they're missing out on so much.

Personally, if I could only choose one, I would easily choose to go in knowing the plot details rather than blind. Then again, for ME the best way to experience almost any movie/show is knowing the basic outline and with someone to actively talk and comment on it while it happens (hell, speaking with peers/reading criticism in between chapters is my favorite ways to read books, and they're suppose to be the least social of the media). Because for me the best things about media are the style, themes, tones, etc. Things you can't spoil via spilled details and often things that develop further under discussion. But I know that people watch things for different reasons. Some people are super visual and really enjoy the filmography, the choreography, those visual flairs. I'm not against those things. Actually, I wish I appreciated them more. One reason I love online discussions is the chance to talk with more visual people and who know about those things and how they effect your viewing experience. Some people analyze costumes, and I love reading detailed discussions of those who break down what a character's clothes mean and why those elements speak volumes. And music! I wish I were more educated about musical theory but it's probably the artistic/creative theory I have the least knowledge about, and obviously there are others out there who have very different strengths and areas of interest. And, yeah, there are also things that I probably unconsciously give less merit than those others, but that really are just as valid as any reason for personally enjoying something. If that thing is the twist and turns and plot surprises than of course they should get to have that. That's why I try and be careful about spoilers (since I don't mind them I don't naturally think of them, and things I wouldn't consider at all spoilerish others do).

I don't see why I would be sitting and focusing on an eventual twist, to the point of distraction, if I'm not spoiled. I've never experienced that.

And if there's more to take in than you get on a first view you can do that on consecutive viewings, and if there's such things it just adds to the rewatchability. You can never get back the chance for the unspoiled first viewing though, which is what the filmmaker intended to bring. Once you're spoiled, or watch the movie, it's gone. The preinformed viewing will always remain though, so that's not something you can lose by going for something else first.

I don't have anything against someone preferring to be spoiled, that's up to them, just like people that read the end of a book first. I don't think there's much of an argument that an unspoiled viewing takes anything away though, since you're never really stuck with a single viewing of a movie (and if it's a complex movie you won't catch all nuances in every aspect on a first watch regardless of spoiled plot).
 
Mjölnir;33181251 said:
I don't see why I would be sitting and focusing on an eventual twist, to the point of distraction, if I'm not spoiled. I've never experienced that.

And if there's more to take in than you get on a first view you can do that on consecutive viewings, and if there's such things it just adds to the rewatchability. You can never get back the chance for the unspoiled first viewing though, which is what the filmmaker intended to bring. Once you're spoiled, or watch the movie, it's gone. The preinformed viewing will always remain though, so that's not something you can lose by going for something else first.

I don't have anything against someone preferring to be spoiled, that's up to them, just like people that read the end of a book first. I don't think there's much of an argument that an unspoiled viewing takes anything away though, since you're never really stuck with a single viewing of a movie (and if it's a complex movie you won't catch all nuances in every aspect on a first watch regardless of spoiled plot).

No, you're right, unspoiled viewings don't take anything away, I just think they aren't nessisarily that big of a deal. However, I hadn't considered how the filmmaker had planned the experienced to work and that's a very valid point. I mean, the director's expectations and vision are not things I feel inherently deserve respect since a viewer always includes themselves - emotions, knowledge, memories, cultural/social notions and all - in the encounter and directors can't just say "no, no, ignore this or that, I didn't intend that so you can't think of it." That doesn't mean when breaking down a film we shouldn't take into consideration that most every filmmaker will construct theirs with a first uniformed viewing in mind. I mean, yeah, it's kind of obvious but not something I had thought about so thanks.

Though I do think that most of the time you can look at something and intelligent deduce what reaction the filmmaker wanted even if you don't have it yourself. Alternatively you can be like me and have an incredibly low threshold for suspension of disbelief and it helps to be just way too emotional about fiction. Then you'll probably just end up getting the effect anyway even knowing precisely what is going to happen.

But I don't think I explained my point well last time which is weird since I used so. many. words. (Yeah I'm sorry about my post size, I need to learn to rein it in :O ) Watching something for the first time is similar to reading something for the first time and in that case I know that studies show again and again that on first read through our brains are usually preoccupied on trying to file/sort the information as well as just looking for the gist of it. It's not a conscious thing, it's just how brains work, and it doesn't mean that you are entirely unable to focus on other elements as well.

To take it back to reading; there are stages of reading comprehension that depend on the skills of the individual and different level of a given text. Practiced readers are able to take glance over even complicated texts and pick up not only surface meaning but also a multitude of sub-textual interpretations. Books can be extremely complex so that even highly skilled readers struggle to discern their full meaning without some outside research. A really talented young reader can go word by word and get through Milton's Paradise Lost, sure, and maybe even take enough from them to be able and give a vague summary of events. But don't expect them to fully understand the text: the various layers, symbolism both religious and secular, literary allusions, commentary on contemporary culture and popular thought, various themes, signification and even cliches. Hell, I wouldn't expect that from your average English master's student without some outside resources and/or past exposure to the text.

Even when we're talking about a much simpler narrative, the first time we phase through a passage we typically start by individually reading each word to figure out what each individual sentence says. You probably think, "well, yeah, I do that every time I read most every sentence. That's how reading works!" Not exactly. When dealing with new, unfamiliar text our brain's processing capacity is going towards reading each individual word and so doesn't engaged deeper, narrative focused brain pathways. When the vocabulary is familiar than a little less of our brain power goes through those low-level pathways. When the style, genre, or general purpose of the text is recognized that's less processing we're doing at the one end which means more on the other. This is why reading strategies including things like having kids discuss after each chapter (this not only helps by familiarizing them with what has happened so far but typically it involves some amount of prediction as well, right? That's all prepping your brain for what lies ahead) and teaching them to recognize certain factors that will help them to identify what is likely to happen in the book like form. When teaching poetry, for instance, you cover the patterns in a given form so that the reader has a vague predictive understanding of where specific information is likely to be, what structure the narrative in the poem tends to take, etc. Basically, the more you know about what you are about to read the less time your brain worries over individual words and the more it's focused on the meaning implicit in the sentence, then paragraph, and then text as a whole.

Most of us have enough experience and skill that something like a message board post only requires one read through and your brain doesn't even engage it at the most basic vocab-level. You are not reading each one of these words and then processing them at a unique, individual level (okay so you might be NOW but only because it's like concentrating on your breathing which... Sorry I just made someone do both those things didn't I?) but is actually doing a so-subtle-as-to-be-unnoticeable version of smart scanning where it takes in only what it has to in order to process the information in the sentence rather than the words. It doesn't need to waste the energy. You've gotten to a point where your brain doesn't bother keeping you informed but, yeah, it's got this figured out enough and can pick up the clues fast enough to predicted what you haven't yet read. It already knows the basics.

Which is the same, I assume, with films which is part of why the Spoiler Paradox works the way it does. Obviously your brain isn't processing individual words in every frame of film, but the equivalent energy exchange is happening so that when you know what is going to happen your brain stops using energy to process that information and instead fuels whatever parts takes in the over-all narrative rather than the single units. THAT is what I was referring to when I said that your brain was distracted by wondering what is next. I guess my problem is that I made it sound more as though it was an actual question driving you to actual distraction rather than being more of a metaphorical way to talk about energy exchange through neural pathways. Yeah... Definitely should have included something like that.

(Edit: Oh god, it's like I get worse at precision posting every time. Mjölnir, you have been to kind in actually reading through these novellas and taking the time to reply!)
 
Just read the spoilers thread for Batman v Superman.

If the latest mega-spoil is true, the movie will be awesome - which I was expecting anyway. Although honestly, there's nothing there I couldn't have predicted, in a movie called Batman v Superman it's not all that tough to work out what's going to happen.
 
No, you're right, unspoiled viewings don't take anything away, I just think they aren't nessisarily that big of a deal. However, I hadn't considered how the filmmaker had planned the experienced to work and that's a very valid point. I mean, the director's expectations and vision are not things I feel inherently deserve respect since a viewer always includes themselves - emotions, knowledge, memories, cultural/social notions and all - in the encounter and directors can't just say "no, no, ignore this or that, I didn't intend that so you can't think of it." That doesn't mean when breaking down a film we shouldn't take into consideration that most every filmmaker will construct theirs with a first uniformed viewing in mind. I mean, yeah, it's kind of obvious but not something I had thought about so thanks.

Though I do think that most of the time you can look at something and intelligent deduce what reaction the filmmaker wanted even if you don't have it yourself. Alternatively you can be like me and have an incredibly low threshold for suspension of disbelief and it helps to be just way too emotional about fiction. Then you'll probably just end up getting the effect anyway even knowing precisely what is going to happen.

But I don't think I explained my point well last time which is weird since I used so. many. words. (Yeah I'm sorry about my post size, I need to learn to rein it in :O ) Watching something for the first time is similar to reading something for the first time and in that case I know that studies show again and again that on first read through our brains are usually preoccupied on trying to file/sort the information as well as just looking for the gist of it. It's not a conscious thing, it's just how brains work, and it doesn't mean that you are entirely unable to focus on other elements as well.

To take it back to reading; there are stages of reading comprehension that depend on the skills of the individual and different level of a given text. Practiced readers are able to take glance over even complicated texts and pick up not only surface meaning but also a multitude of sub-textual interpretations. Books can be extremely complex so that even highly skilled readers struggle to discern their full meaning without some outside research. A really talented young reader can go word by word and get through Milton's Paradise Lost, sure, and maybe even take enough from them to be able and give a vague summary of events. But don't expect them to fully understand the text: the various layers, symbolism both religious and secular, literary allusions, commentary on contemporary culture and popular thought, various themes, signification and even cliches. Hell, I wouldn't expect that from your average English master's student without some outside resources and/or past exposure to the text.

Even when we're talking about a much simpler narrative, the first time we phase through a passage we typically start by individually reading each word to figure out what each individual sentence says. You probably think, "well, yeah, I do that every time I read most every sentence. That's how reading works!" Not exactly. When dealing with new, unfamiliar text our brain's processing capacity is going towards reading each individual word and so doesn't engaged deeper, narrative focused brain pathways. When the vocabulary is familiar than a little less of our brain power goes through those low-level pathways. When the style, genre, or general purpose of the text is recognized that's less processing we're doing at the one end which means more on the other. This is why reading strategies including things like having kids discuss after each chapter (this not only helps by familiarizing them with what has happened so far but typically it involves some amount of prediction as well, right? That's all prepping your brain for what lies ahead) and teaching them to recognize certain factors that will help them to identify what is likely to happen in the book like form. When teaching poetry, for instance, you cover the patterns in a given form so that the reader has a vague predictive understanding of where specific information is likely to be, what structure the narrative in the poem tends to take, etc. Basically, the more you know about what you are about to read the less time your brain worries over individual words and the more it's focused on the meaning implicit in the sentence, then paragraph, and then text as a whole.

Most of us have enough experience and skill that something like a message board post only requires one read through and your brain doesn't even engage it at the most basic vocab-level. You are not reading each one of these words and then processing them at a unique, individual level (okay so you might be NOW but only because it's like concentrating on your breathing which... Sorry I just made someone do both those things didn't I?) but is actually doing a so-subtle-as-to-be-unnoticeable version of smart scanning where it takes in only what it has to in order to process the information in the sentence rather than the words. It doesn't need to waste the energy. You've gotten to a point where your brain doesn't bother keeping you informed but, yeah, it's got this figured out enough and can pick up the clues fast enough to predicted what you haven't yet read. It already knows the basics.

Which is the same, I assume, with films which is part of why the Spoiler Paradox works the way it does. Obviously your brain isn't processing individual words in every frame of film, but the equivalent energy exchange is happening so that when you know what is going to happen your brain stops using energy to process that information and instead fuels whatever parts takes in the over-all narrative rather than the single units. THAT is what I was referring to when I said that your brain was distracted by wondering what is next. I guess my problem is that I made it sound more as though it was an actual question driving you to actual distraction rather than being more of a metaphorical way to talk about energy exchange through neural pathways. Yeah... Definitely should have included something like that.

(Edit: Oh god, it's like I get worse at precision posting every time. Mjölnir, you have been to kind in actually reading through these novellas and taking the time to reply!)

Hehe, that was a few words, yes. :woot:

When it comes to the intent of the director I agree that there's no inherent value to it, it was just another aspect I brought up. While I don't think intent is irrelevant I think art lies mainly with the observer. If I watch a movie and have one experience it doesn't matter if the director had another in mind, but it matters in the sense that I shouldn't criticize him for it just because I thought it differently. For example, if I think a movie came off as racist but the director had no such intentions I should not criticize him for being racist, just for that I don't think he succeeded with his message.

As for not catching everything on the first watch, I agree. But then again that most likely goes even if you know some important plot twists because there's so much to see in a movie with some depth that you just won't catch it all anyway. Therefor I think multiple viewings are required anyway.

But all in all I think we look at it fairly similarly. We just have different preferences for our personal experiences.
 

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