Star Wars Question

[Edd Extraordinaire]

This is a question that was asked to me, and since I could not come up with a decent answer, I shall posit this inquiry to you fine people. Thus:

In Episode III, Chewbacca was all tight with...hey, why is there a red line under Chewbacca? You would think that on a site like this, it would be acceptable text. Anyway...

In ROTS, Chewie was all tight with Yoda and that group, right? So why does Obi-Wan act like he doesn't know him in the OT? Did Yoda never mention him to Obi-Wan in their ghost chats, or what?

You see, before you ask this question, you must ask yourself about the numerous plot holes in Ep. 1-3. This is one of them, but it is sort of a minor one, if not insignificant.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

People would have *****ed. "WTF? Where's the big yellow thing you have to read before the movie starts?"

You gotta have the crawl in anything Star Wars related at this point, I think.

How would you start it without that?

Give the audience some credit. I think most people would realise that Episode I is the start of the story.

 

[Movies205]

When my friends and I walked out of theatre after seeing it... The first thing we said was... If Chewie knew Yoda, you think he tell Han to quit his bithcing about the force not existing, he saw the f'ing man in action!

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Ah, but Obi-Wan is not using it to mock his opponent, he is calling him by name. "You can't win, Darth." Darth is obviously his name, and Lucas at that point had not thought of using Darth as a title for Sith in general. Hence the Emperor is not called 'Darth' anything until Episode III.

Anyway, if it was Obi-Wan mocking Vader's Sith rank, we wouldn't have understood anyway, because back in 1977 we didn't know it was a rank. Because it wasn't.

Still applies. I could totally hear someone saying, "You can't win, Colonel."
Of course we know it was supposed to be his name.
I'm just saying, lucky for George, it still works.

The really embarrassing stuff is the stuff where he knew what he had to work with in the first three movies, and then when he was making the prequels, he still ****ed up.

Such as:
If I desperately wanted to hide Edgar Neslon's son's existence from Edgar Nelson...I would not name the baby Timmy Nelson and send him to live in Edgar Nelson's hometown, to live with Edgar Nelson's step-family.

George could've easily named Anakin "Anakin Banthapudu" or something, and had Owen and Beru just be close friends of Obi Wan or something.

 

[Buford The Sly]

When my friends and I walked out of theatre after seeing it... The first thing we said was... If Chewie knew Yoda, you think he tell Han to quit his bithcing about the force not existing, he saw the f'ing man in action!

Maybe Chewy thought it was "all simple tricks and non-sense"

 

[crazy monkey]

Still applies. I could totally hear someone saying, "You can't win, Colonel."
Of course we know it was supposed to be his name.
I'm just saying, lucky for George, it still works.

Lucas sez that the name Dath Vader came from the character's role as a "Dark Invader." So yes, it was -- at first -- the character's intended name, hence the Lord Vader title, hence Obi-Wan referring to him as Darth. But I agree with Wilhelm, it still works as an impersonal label, an acknowledgement of the rift between them and Anakin's new alliegance.

I also doubt that the Imperials would refer to him by a Sith title, since its clear from the views expressed on the Death Star in New Hope that the contemporary generation had no faith in the reality of the Force. In fact, I don't think the Imps ever knew that they worked for the Sith at all. The Emporer kept his own powers a secret, relying on military might and technology to accomplish his goals. That's obvious in Ep. III, but also seems the case in Ep. IV, since Tarkin refers to Vader as the last of the Jedi -- not as a Sith. If they knew of the Sith at all, it was probably as a legend.

Darth Maul.. Darth Sidious.. Darth Malak... Darth Tyrannus...Darth Vader

EVERYONE has the SAME NAME??? negative...

Come to think of it, has Lucas ever called it a title? I think it would be kind of cool if it was a name. George likes to rip off the Bible, and there's a lot of examples in Biblical cultures of people dubbed with new names during periods of upheaval or when facing a new chapter in their lives. It'd be kind of cool if Darth was a Sith surname (last name first, like in Japanese) and a new name -- not just a title -- is given to a Sith apprentice. That does a lot psychologically to a person, replacing their identity and adopting them into a new culture.

Then, when Obi-Wan calls him Darth in EP IV, it would make even better sense. He's not on a first-name basis with his enemy. He calls him by the name he has taken, the family he has joined -- the house of Darth.

-- END!

 

[SolidSnakeMGS]

Sorry, but NOT to include the crawl would be an unacceptable departure, not to mention that there was no prequel movies when the first Star Wars (ANH) came out at the time YET it did have a crawl. So the 'opening crawl' point is invalid.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Sorry, but NOT to include the crawl would be an unacceptable departure, not to mention that there was no prequel movies when the first Star Wars (ANH) came out at the time YET it did have a crawl.

OF COURSE ANH has a crawl, it's Episode IV, there is back story to fill in. The whole point is that in 1977 there were no prequels, no previous episodes. With The Phantom Menace, it's Episode I, so there is no back story to tell us. Plus, Lucas uses them to pay homage to serials, and serials only recap the previous episode.

 

[Matt]

Sorry, but NOT to include the crawl would be an unacceptable departure, not to mention that there was no prequel movies when the first Star Wars (ANH) came out at the time YET it did have a crawl. So the 'opening crawl' point is invalid.

I dunno, I see Kevin's point. Star Wars is meant to be a big serial. If thats the case, why would you have a crawl at the beginning? Unless of course there were an episode zero, which just doesn't make sense.

 

[Matt]

Darth IS NOT his name.. whether it was revealed in the OT or the ST.. it is confirmed and used over again as a TITLE amongst Sith....

Darth Maul.. Darth Sidious.. Darth Malak... Darth Tyrannus...Darth Vader


EVERYONE has the SAME NAME??? negative...

the characters NOT of Sith orgins dont recognize the Darth title or for some unexplicable reason choose rarely to call him that...

I think Kev gets that it is a title. What he is saying is, Lucas never intended it to be a title, thus his entire "I had the entire story planned out from day one" is a load.

 

[Golgo-13]

^. Exactly. It explains why Leia 'passionetly' kisses Luke in EP 4, and why the word 'Sith' isn't mentioned at all in the OT.

 

[Golgo-13]

Other Star Wars problems

1. In A New Hope, Obi-Wan calls Darth Vader, 'Darth' when, by the logic of the prequels, 'Darth' is a title for Sith Lords. He should call him, 'Vader'.

2. The Phantom Menace should not begin with a title crawl, because the crawl is used in serials to explain what happened in the last episode. You don't need one for the first episode.

3. The Sith should not use lightsabers. Lightsabers are a Jedi weapon and Vader only uses one because he used to be a Jedi. The Emperor does not use a lightsaber.

1)Debatable. But i see your point.

2)The crawls DON'T reveal what happened in the last episode. They explain what lead up to the current episode. Read them again. Each one narrates events UNSEEN by the audience. Basically it helps you follow what's about to happen.

3) I agree. Since Sidious didn't have a Saber in ROTJ, he should not have had one in ROTS. But because of TPM, and Maul, the Sith's weaponary changed. Which leads me to another question: did Maul know how to use 'dark-side lightning'?

 

[jrpstarwars]

Other Star Wars problems

1. In A New Hope, Obi-Wan calls Darth Vader, 'Darth' when, by the logic of the prequels, 'Darth' is a title for Sith Lords. He should call him, 'Vader'.

2. The Phantom Menace should not begin with a title crawl, because the crawl is used in serials to explain what happened in the last episode. You don't need one for the first episode.

3. The Sith should not use lightsabers. Lightsabers are a Jedi weapon and Vader only uses one because he used to be a Jedi. The Emperor does not use a lightsaber.

Unless... it is a prequel. I smell 'Star Wars:The Early Years' coming to a theatre near you. I just hope it stays away from a theatre near me.

 

[jrpstarwars]

Darth IS NOT his name.. whether it was revealed in the OT or the ST.. it is confirmed and used over again as a TITLE amongst Sith....

Darth Maul.. Darth Sidious.. Darth Malak... Darth Tyrannus...Darth Vader


EVERYONE has the SAME NAME??? negative...

the characters NOT of Sith orgins dont recognize the Darth title or for some unexplicable reason choose rarely to call him that...

You forgot one... Darth Luducris

 

[blud_knight]

because these new movies make up crap that cannot fit into the pre existing continuity

 

[Speedball]

We get it man, you don't like Star Wars.
So quit posting in all the Star Wars threads, please.

 

[Buford The Sly]

3) I agree. Since Sidious didn't have a Saber in ROTJ, he should not have had one in ROTS. But because of TPM, and Maul, the Sith's weaponary changed. Which leads me to another question: did Maul know how to use 'dark-side lightning'?

We don't know for sure that he didn't have a lightsaber in ROTJ... I thought there was tons of EU stuff that explained all this...but whatever trying to make sense of it all just gives you tired head.

 

[uchiha_itachi]

i doubt yoda wuld mention all of the wookies he knows. yeh hes probly more freindlywith chewbacca and tht other wookie but, yoda probly knows alot more than them. it would be like obi wan mentioning ALL the jedi people he knows to his bartender friend.

 

[Parker]

3. The Sith should not use lightsabers. Lightsabers are a Jedi weapon and Vader only uses one because he used to be a Jedi. The Emperor does not use a lightsaber.

Well, you have to remember that Sith were once exiled Dark Jedi on the planet Korriban, and Dark Jedi were once...yep, you guessed it, Jedi. I mean, I guess it would make sense for them to detach and renounce themselves from all things Jedi and never touch a lightsaber again, but I suppose they figure "hey, why should we be the ones to stop using these uber-cool laser swords?"

 

[Kanon]

The thing that bothers me the most is neither Vader or Obi Wan remembering the droids in the OT, but then, in the prequels, in turns out they met, and worked togheter...

Well, you have to remember that Sith were once exiled Dark Jedi on the planet Korriban

Whoa, I missed that movie

 

[SolidSnakeMGS]

OF COURSE ANH has a crawl, it's Episode IV, there is back story to fill in. The whole point is that in 1977 there were no prequels, no previous episodes. With The Phantom Menace, it's Episode I, so there is no back story to tell us. Plus, Lucas uses them to pay homage to serials, and serials only recap the previous episode.

I dunno, I see Kevin's point. Star Wars is meant to be a big serial. If thats the case, why would you have a crawl at the beginning? Unless of course there were an episode zero, which just doesn't make sense.

When Lucas made Star Wars, there was no previous episode or even thought of one. In fact, when it hit theaters, the opening crawl had NO 'Episode IV' in it! It made NO mention of the events in Episode III.

They do NOT recap the previous episodes. Seriously, do you read them at all? All they do is provide an overview to the situation, with some info on the events leading up to that episode. They do not mention much from the previous episode, and certainly nothing that could be considered a recap.

Not to have the crawl in Episode I would leave the audience a little clueless as to what was going on.Then you'd have to have a character exchange that seemed forced, like they were specifically talking to the audience and it would be awkward and time-consuming.

Not to mention not including a crawl would be against the mosaic of familiar Star Wars-isms that we're familiar and fond of.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Roegelle's usually the man, but you're wrong about the crawl.
It's perfectly normal for a first film to start with background.

For instance, the very begining of Fellowship of the Ring.

Or, how the very begining of the very first Buck Rogers episode says:

"The year is 1987 and NASA launches the last of America's deep space probes. In a freak mishap Ranger 3 and its pilot, Captain William 'Buck' Rogers, are blown out of their trajectory into an orbit which freezes his life support systems and returns Buck Rogers to Earth 500 years later."


TPM was just telling you who these goons in brown bathrobes were and why they were about to be sneaking around a ship and fighting harmless robots, etc.

 

[Matt]

The really embarrassing stuff is the stuff where he knew what he had to work with in the first three movies, and then when he was making the prequels, he still ****ed up.

Like Leia claiming to have known her mother in Return of the Jedi and Lucas killing her off right after she was born?

The REALLY embarrassing part of that is the way fans over at Theforce.net will try to justify it.

 

[KingOfDreams]

3. The Sith should not use lightsabers. Lightsabers are a Jedi weapon and Vader only uses one because he used to be a Jedi. The Emperor does not use a lightsaber.

While many Sith do choose to use vibroblades instead of lightsabers I don't think you're right. Many Sith in the expanded universe used lightsabers. Some were fallen Jedi, yes, but not all I don't think. If you mean true Sith, as in the species, maybe. The Sith Order was founded by fallen Jedi and thus lightsabers were used.

 

[uchiha_itachi]

The thing that bothers me the most is neither Vader or Obi Wan remembering the droids in the OT, but then, in the prequels, in turns out they met, and worked togheter...


Whoa, I missed that movie

thing is tho there are thousands of droids tht look like 3p0 and r2d2 so u cnt balame him, and its not like they spent the whole time span of eps 1-3 together so they didnt bond, and ep 4 is like 20 years later as well so i cnt blame him for forgetting a couple droids he saw back in the day lol t: