• Super Maintenance

    Xenforo Cloud upgraded our forum to XenForo version 2.3.4. This update has created styling issues to our current templates.

    Starting January 9th, site maintenance is ongoing until further notice, but please report any other issues you may experience so we can look into.

    We apologize for the inconvenience.

Superman Returns stay stagnant or move forward

sf2

Superhero
Joined
May 2, 2005
Messages
6,591
Reaction score
15
Points
58
stay stagnant = just like the james bond movies. his personal life is the sub-sub plot. the main plot is always about the action, the threat and how he resolved them interestingly. and after each of the movies, he is still he. nothing has gained or loss for him.

move forward = just like what we are getting, SR. Superman personal life is the main plot. he will not be the same; some essential elements migth have attached or detached from him after the movie. and the action / the threat would be the secondary. it wouldn't get too deep on resolving the matter intelligently.


so which one do you prefer for the superman movie franchise?

personally, i was expecting a 'stay stagnant'. a 'move forward' is too risky & difficult to develop. h
aving said that, i love SR but i just want as many superman movies as possible ( just like the james bond movies... & i don't mind if it is just another popcorn commercial movie as long as superman is still him. )
 
It's like the Old Vs. New Coca Cola. I choose old. ;)
 
How about just make a good Superman movie next time. You can't put him in an unfamiliar world and expect the average filmg goer to understand. If SR had been a good movie, none of this discussion would be happening. You can keep the tone of SR for a sequel as long as it has a good story. SR failed simply because of story.

SR was a tired retread. So now everyone is scrambling and discussing ways to make it right. It's not the Donner influence that hurt SR, nor Routh, or the suit. It was a boring story with no imagination. If a good movie had been made, this discussion board would be very slow.

There is no need to make some elseworld tale. Just m a good Superman move and all will be fine.
 
Follow Batman Begins, Singer.

it's just that simple. The past is the past.

It wouldn't be stagnant to follow what Nolan did instead of copy donner word for word. Copying donner is staying stagnant.

Nolan's batman has moved forward since 1989. so I vote we move on from Donner's oldskool universe for once in a goddamn while.
 
great thread, makes me think on many levels.

I didn't think SR was a bad movie, I quite liked it. Infact I really liked it (Hulk aswell). That being said, I can identify with those who wanted a more popcorn superman movie, because the film is lacking in action, and there is almost an hour long break in the middle of the movie with minimal action.

Now, we've all seen in the recent past, that pure action movies, with less story don't fare so well, especially the big ones (Matrix Reloaded comes to mind). Today's modern movie market requires a plot, and some emotion. It is due to a change in the market, with an increased female element that is being catered to (this is not a bash on ladies, it's the advancement of female integration which is unavoidable). And as a result, movies like commando are not big time winners like they once were. Applied to superman, there is a need for that emotional rollercoaster and interpersonal relationships. SR had this, and it was well done IMO (although outside of the standard superman narrative).

Now lately, even the the comics, Superman has often be portrayed as a lonely figure. Maybe even a brooding one at times. This all goes hand in hand with being the most powerful being on the planet. And I think Singer has shown that this can translate onto film well. Again, SR had oodles of this and it was good.

SR, had some major narrative implications though. Mainly surrounding the interpersonal relationships he had. Namely, Richard and Jason. They are not a bad thing, and worked well on screen. The only thing that really bothered me in the end, was that feeling that 'this is WB, and it could really be ruined in the end, if they go the wrong direction' (As WB is so well known for doing). That is my only real concern, because although this movie took a risk by introducing Jason, but it avoided all the difficult stuff by ending before it began (ie. interaction b/w supes and Jason, Richard and supes, and the rest of the family). It is at that point where things will get iffy (but that hasn't come yet). I think that most of the hesitancy about Jason is the fact that we fanboys are slightly nervous about what will happen with the character? It could be really cool, but it could also be horribly terrible.

So I think that SR has layed a great foundation for a franchise, even though it didn't smash the B/O (which is just a stupid move on WB's part (release date)). All the elements of Superman are there. Yes, Supes was a little depressing, which is so not superman, however, this was a depressing story. He was meant to be depressing. Will that continue for a sequel, I think not. He left on a search for his family, returning when his quest was fruitless, realizing finally that he really is the last of his kind. Only to return to earth, to discover that what he was looking for was right here.

SR ended, with Superman being where he should be. Everything (narratively speaking) is in the right place for a 'normal' superman movie, with lots of action and all the boyscout fun. The only twist is that Jason is still around, that's really the only carry over from SR (emotionally speaking). A sequel to SR will have an emotional base left over from SR, but will more than likely incorperate more action, and more 'supermaness' (as per the critique it is getting on this years release).

So stagnant, or move forward? Well, I was actually expecting this movie to be stagnant in the first place. A week in the life of Superman one could call it. But it turned out not to be. But how should the rest of the franchise go if it gets a chance? I'm a fan of how the original franchise grew. The opening 2 movies, being direct sequels of each other, then sequels beyond the 2 part opener would be stagnant as described above. That way the universe, and audience are schooled in the character, that sequels can just jump right into the action, w/o having to define the characters, and settings.

On the other hand, I'm also a fan of how Startrek organized their franchis. The opening movie is self contained, but then movies II, III, IV and V are all linked by one long story arc (yet each film is self contained). And then the rest of the movies were one hit wonders.

I say, first two movies be direct sequels, fleshing out the characters, creating a universe in which the characters operate, getting the setting right, and tying up loose ends (Jason and Richard). Let SRIII and the future continue on at a stagnated pace. Allow them to be self contained one hit wonders. Just remember, for me, that all hinges on SRII being a badass mofo movie.
 
Let SRIII and the future continue on at a stagnated pace. Allow them to be self contained one hit wonders?

Hahahahahahahaha.
That was a good one, dude.
You're not serious, are ya?
 
sf2 said:
stay stagnant = just like the james bond movies. his personal life is the sub-sub plot. the main plot is always about the action, the threat and how he resolved them interestingly. and after each of the movies, he is still he. nothing has gained or loss for him.

move forward = just like what we are getting, SR. Superman personal life is the main plot. he will not be the same; some essential elements migth have attached or detached from him after the movie. and the action / the threat would be the secondary. it wouldn't get too deep on resolving the matter intelligently.


so which one do you prefer for the superman movie franchise?

personally, i was expecting a 'stay stagnant'. a 'move forward' is too risky & difficult to develop. h
aving said that, i love SR but i just want as many superman movies as possible ( just like the james bond movies... & i don't mind if it is just another popcorn commercial movie as long as superman is still him. )

the way your choices sound like:

stay stagnant= brainless slam bang action flick
move forward= character assasination

at this rate i'd rather go for an Elseworld, maybe like Kingdom Come.
 
Steelsheen said:
the way your choices sound like:

stay stagnant= brainless slam bang action flick
move forward= character assasination

at this rate i'd rather go for an Elseworld, maybe like Kingdom Come.
lol. you don't really mean that, do you?

no, they are more positive in my definition. stay stagnant like the normal action hero movie. like james bonds' , Superman I, II, III, IV, Batman I, II, III, & IV. you know all the main characters would be remain the same in the end of the movie. it explored more on the main plot. the threats and the solution.
 
I think there should be a mid-point, like spiderman has. His story and superman's has its origin point and then comes to whatever point it's at where he's fighting crime, doing his superhero thing. And as we see both sm1 and sm2 show spidey moving towards that place in his life where he's got mj, while still doing his superhero thing. Now that the romance is settled and his hero life established for us, all raimi has to do is throw as much obstacles at him as possible, this time a sandman and alien jelly, next time who knows... and so on. Is it stagnant when a hero reaches the point where he's established and every new adventure is another great conflict for him to face? It's not really that way to me. Each issue brings a new challenge and the fun is in watching the hero find some way to overcome it.

I'll go back to batman begins. The movie establishes him, so now what? Give him a son? Romance? Rachael engages to Joker and batman's Jealous? I'm chewing it in my head, but i'm just not thinking it's time for that or even that batman's a character who can be portrayed that way though of course he's got some kiddies in the comic, I hear. What does he do with them?

One day I was in the library at school reading about the past, I guess I'm into history, and I learned about these things called Adventure Serials. And they featured comicbook heros like captain america, superman, all of them. And yeah there was a basic formula to it, like fleischer's superman cartoon. Superman and lois get a story, lois tricks clark into not being able to join her on their story, some **** happens, and it's a job for superman. He saves lois... the end. It's the serial format. The hero doesn't undergo any drastic lifechanging thing each week, so there's not really much continuity besides the origin up to he's established himself as the hero. So like james bond, you could do a thousand billion gazillion stories with him always bouncing back like a rubber band into its original position in the end. I guess that's how it is in the comics too.

I honestly love that format. It's just so cool to chronicle a hero's life like that, as if they're adventures are endless and legendary. Like Indiana Jones, an entire movie series based on those classic serials, I guess.
Someone more knowledgable than I will be able to elaborate, but yes. That's the kind of hero I think superman is. His battle is neverending so each adventure can go on and on forever without need to change him too much each time. I guess he's one of those types.
 
i dont care what "format it is". just make it good.
the story ruined this film.
superman is a massive character. everyone knows him in someway. from old grannies to youngins.
SR failed because the story was poor and the film failed to resonate with many.
i didnt care for the characters. and the climax where superman is supposedly dead has no suspense at all.
of course he is alive!! its not like this is ET.
just such a crap story.
superman deserved so much better than SR.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"