Stop Complaining Please! Is Anybody Else Sick of It?!

[ntcrawler]

Oh, and by the way Batman Begins had better word of mouth than X3, as BB had great legs while X3 fell apart after opening weekend.

That would help explain its massive advertising campaign. As I mentioned before, it feels like the powers that be went to alot of trouble to get people to see the movie, once, and therefore why so much of the movie was included in the trailers and advertisement campaign as well as a little deception: Cyclops in uniform, Angel in uniform, lots of exposure for Angel in the trailers, etc. X3 also seems to have quickly fallenfrom the public eye after opening weekend. It's still playing in some theatres here and is just about to switch over to the discount cinemas, but it's no longer getting any public exposure that I notice.

 

[The Batman]

YJ1 is simply jealous of BB's acclaim. He was jealous of it last year, and hes jealous of it now. He supports the mediocre films, and then gets mad when the good ones get praised. He's simply living in denial. It's funny how the only one who believes YJ1 is an intelligent poster is YJ1.


And i still wanna know how i was the one to mention BB first in this thread.

 

[The Spirit]

YJ1 is simply jealous of BB's acclaim. He was jealous of it last year, and hes jealous of it now. He supports the mediocre films, and then gets mad when the good ones get praised. He's simply living in denial. It's funny how the only one who believes YJ1 is an intelligent poster is YJ1.


And i still wanna know how i was the one to mention BB first in this thread.

You WERE.

YJ1 is a joke. Anyone who tells me its BS that BB is considered one of the best comic movies and that X3 isnt really needs a reality check.

he truly believes in his sad heart that X3 is considered one of the best comic movies. even people who like the movie dont consider it more than good or decent.

Out of the two of you, you were. So you'll see that the entire time when you were trying to be "Mr. Tough Guy", over the internet, you were wrong.

Seriously, I think someone here needs a little vacation from the Hype.

 

[xii22_loop]

whoa this thread became a real sucesss. wolverine82, you deserve a toast. or some toast.

 

[BMM]

I'm glad you took what must have been hours to get frustrated and poor over all my posts. I hope you learned something. People who read material far above one’s own intellect usually better themselves but in your case I doubt it'll help.

Don't worry. There was no frustration involved, and it didn't take hours at all . . . just a couple of minutes really.

The fact is that I successfully pointed out tremendous plot flaws in Batman Begins ONLY when it became necessary to fight some of the stupidity spilling over in to the Fantastic Four boards. It was instigated by Batfans who felt they had something to prove and were childishly attacking FF fans on their own board. I make no secret of the fact that I'm more of a Marvel fan. I think Superman Returns is basically a plodding rehash but I don't live on that board trying to start trouble. I basically stay on the Marvel side of the fence positively commenting on the films and comic related material that I like, stopping only occasionally to slap down children like yourself. I guess I should show more patience with childish ignorance but that’s something I'll just have to work on in the future.

For the record, I own Batman Begins and supported the film when it was released. Still, I think it's ridiculous to declare BB as the greatest movie ever made and I proved that any whinny fan can dissect ANY movie if that's their motivation. BB came in to this conversation only when a delusional Batfan brought it up from another thread. I pointed out the undeniable fact that X3 has destroyed BB at the box office and this led to yet another childish tirade. Again, my weakness is that I find it hard to tolerate the limited thinking that a FEW people choose to put on display here. Since it's the same as talking to a wall, I think it'll probably be best if I step back and let the frustrated FEW continue to vent and continue to make themselves feel important. Flame away. I'll try to exhibit more patience on the Spider-Man 3, Ghost Rider and FF2 pages next year after each of those films are released.

I never said you didn't like Batman Begins. I was just pointing out that we all make negative posts, which you yourself just acknowledged. That's all.

 

[The Batman]

Trying to be Mr. tough Guy? I was wrong. Apparently, I did mention it, it happens. My mistake.

It still dosent change the point of BMM's post. YJ1 still particpates in the childish fanboy attitude of everyone he derides. My mentioning him earlier had nothing to do with BMM's post.

 

[Theweepeople]

In short....

The fans are the reason why comicbook films exist in the first place. Whether you agree with that or not makes no difference because it is fact not opinion. Popularity driven by the fans is the only reason these films are green-lighted at all. Now we all know there will never be a "verbatim" translation to the big screen from the comicbooks--but to get it close enough or as close as possible is what most fans ask for. X2 was able to do that somewhat despite Singer's obvious and at times blatant deviation from the comics. Thus the reason his vision is often given a free pass of sorts. For the Phoenix Saga fans wanted and expected more on a much grander level befitting the Phoenix Saga.

The following can be applied to any comicbook ( or novel/story adaptation in its own way)...

You have 40yrs. of comics. You have (x)years of loyal fans mixed in during that time. Fans that have grown with the characters over the years. You announce you're doing a movie based on said extremely popular comic or a particular story from said extremely popular comic. The expectations are high naturally.

View the situation from a fans standpoint. Better yet, take something you cherish deeply and deface it. Have someone belittle it. would it feel good? Would you get over it so easily? Would you be upset? Would you vent if given the chance to or bottle it up?

I know the negativity can seem overwhelming, but how do you expect the fans to feel?

This was the best part of your post. One of the reasons some comic book movies are so successful and others do so poorly can be attributed to the comic book fans. 25 to 30% of the money that the quality comic book movies make domestically is the result of the comic book geeks. These people are the ones who will see the good comic book movies 5 or more times and most of them won't bother to see the dreadful ones(Batman and Robin, Electra, Daredevil, Blade 3, Catwoman) in the theater.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Excellent point! Therefore they're not competing with each other. Batman Begins already made its profit and can safely start pondering a sequel.

Nicely done, LastSunrise1981! You indeed did turn it around without coming off as insane




Are you saying that a big budget, special effects summer blockbuster with an all-star cast and $210 million in funding was beaten out by a comedy???

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I mean seriously, for X3 to be this powerful emotional film, it sure had a hard time staying on the top seeing as it was only there for a week. And to be trounced by a Vince Vaughn/Jennifer Aniston film in the process.

I'm sorry, but that's just sad. Speaking of which, have you seen Batman Begins yet Ntcrawler?

 

[WorthyStevens]

That would help explain its massive advertising campaign. As I mentioned before, it feels like the powers that be went to alot of trouble to get people to see the movie, once, and therefore why so much of the movie was included in the trailers and advertisement campaign as well as a little deception: Cyclops in uniform, Angel in uniform, lots of exposure for Angel in the trailers, etc. X3 also seems to have quickly fallenfrom the public eye after opening weekend. It's still playing in some theatres here and is just about to switch over to the discount cinemas, but it's no longer getting any public exposure that I notice.

Not to mention the deceptions in the actual movie itself, for example Angel having an opening scene. You would think he had a good-sized role in the movie after that, but no...

 

[UraniaChang]

A guy opens a thread for stoping people complaining about X3 and 90% of the posts are all against the idea....hope this result will make him see the reality.
And sometimes I think some Wolverine fans are quite easy to satisfy...they will gladly embrace anything the filmmakers feed them as long as they get Wovie bouncing around and clawing everything.
Honestly, those metal claws aren't worthy of all that attention of the three X-Men movies combined.

 

[Radagast_Prime]

Right. It was even worst

Anyhoo after waiting 3 years for a movie that turned out shallow and empty I can see why people Complain. It's like the fans invested 10 times more love and energy into this film than any of his creators.

 

[ntcrawler]

Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I mean seriously, for X3 to be this powerful emotional film, it sure had a hard time staying on the top seeing as it was only there for a week. And to be trounced by a Vince Vaughn/Jennifer Aniston film in the process.

That's an interesting point. That does say something about its emotional impact. It's also ironic that the people who tell us that we obsess too much for pointing out the flaws in the film or its shortcomings themselves keep going to see it over and over and over again and even attach special counters to their avatars to let the world know how many times they saw it, hehe.

I'm sorry, but that's just sad. Speaking of which, have you seen Batman Begins yet Ntcrawler?

No, not yet LS1981. Housebuilding and writing X-Men fanfics have kept me busy. Hopefully next week!

Does that mean you're gonna send another Terminator after me?

 

[ntcrawler]

I am very glad you said this Ntcrawler. It compliments how I feel about this film. As a follower of the comics, and a vocal member of a particular shunted fanbase, I have plenty of reasons to not like this film, but I do try to make the best of it, seeing as how it is all that I have on screen.

That is the sad part, isn't it? Especially if you watch the previous two films where things seem to flow and feel better, huh? That what you see is all that there is, that there probably won't be any more. You end up starving for material. You're given something tasty, and then they tell you there isn't any more. Frustrating!

I definitly don't hate the general public for liking this film. In the end they are the ones that deterimine what color the bottom line will be. Bit**, whine, complain, and vent about Fox all you want but at the end of the day, they serve their material to the general public.

But see, the problem is that it WQULD be possible to make a movie that appeals to both fans and the general audience. Look at some of the little things people suggested here. A little tweaking of dialogue here and there, for example to establish that Juggernaut is Xavier's half brother. The General audience wouldn't feel the impact (nor would it confuse them), but the fans would get a smile on their face. You don't have to spend millions and millions to redo the whole film. And we know these people are capable of doing things right. If they can give us the Fastball Special, they could do other, simpler things, like flesh out the characters a bit more that would have a BIG impact for both the general audience and veteran fans alike.

If they tried to please fan groups they would still end up angering other fans (no two fans are alike). I saw joke on Conan desribing the President as a "Cable Prez". He shoots for 28%. That would desribe what fans want perfectly.

I think their mistake was to try and sell this like a summer blockbuster, instead of waiting for fall and winter to really give people a treat. Not only by then you would be moving away from the big explosions and special effects of the summer blockbuster mentality, but at least the production staff would have more time to complete their film!

In a situation like this, there is no middle ground.

No there isn't. That's why you have to make a stand, and not be afraid of where you stand. But it's good to know we can stand on the same side of the fence, and there's enough on that side too so we know we're not just 2 crazy people, haha.

 

[La_She-Beast]

Nothing is more frustrating than not being able to express yourself or having your frustrations pent up inside and not being able to release them.

And that is an underlined point there. I live with that so much... and won't repeat it in this forum.

Beast, while brilliantly portrayed by Grammer, wasn't given enough time to shine. I had to explain to a lot of people why he was acting so intelligent and spoke so clearly. There needed to be scenes of him displaying his genius intellect. Maybe a scene of him hanging upside down mixing chemicals, reading a book like Moby Dick, teaching some complicated form of Algebra or Calculus to the students in the mansion, and so on and so forth.

You don't know how much I'd give to see Beast playing Beethoven's "Moonlight" to express his suffering with the piano... the last few notes would've given a great impact. *sighs*
And indeed, he didn't "shine" enough. Kelsey Grammer is a theatrical actor, for god's sake, why didn't they took that advantage to portray with ease that dramatic character (Beast)?

 

[X-Maniac]

That would help explain its massive advertising campaign. As I mentioned before, it feels like the powers that be went to alot of trouble to get people to see the movie, once, and therefore why so much of the movie was included in the trailers and advertisement campaign as well as a little deception: Cyclops in uniform, Angel in uniform, lots of exposure for Angel in the trailers, etc. X3 also seems to have quickly fallenfrom the public eye after opening weekend. It's still playing in some theatres here and is just about to switch over to the discount cinemas, but it's no longer getting any public exposure that I notice.

That's rather unfair and unproven. Despite what people might say on here, and on the internet in general, I've yet to hear a bad word said about X3 OFF THE INTERNET. I have, however, heard bad word of mouth about SR. That is God's honest truth.

Batman Begins was entirely different. It was a 'slow burner' whose appeal built up gradually after a lot of initial apathy. People who were hesitant about it went to see because of intense marketing (on the TV all the time), good word of mouth and a solid cast.

X3 was heavily promoted and marketed, mostly prior to release. Very little marketing after release (they'd probably spent all their money!). I believe marketing got people in those seats as much as any popularity built up by the previous X-movies. No one can deny that X3 did astonishingly well at the box office.

Reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, or wherever, mean nothing - or box office would exactly mirror the ratings on that site.

 

[The Batman]

Just because YOU havent heard anything bad about X3 does not mean others havent.

And i doubt you'd be saying RT dosent matter if the reviews were largely positive.

 

[ntcrawler]

That's rather unfair and unproven. Despite what people might say on here, and on the internet in general, I've yet to hear a bad word said about X3 OFF THE INTERNET. I have, however, heard bad word of mouth about SR. That is God's honest truth.

that's because the people you see talking on the internet are the ones that step out of the shadow of the grey consumer masses and who want to express themselves. Most of the crowd I see on the streets is just "good movie", then they move on to see another movie and that's about as much of an impact as these things have on them. The ones you see here are the ones who actually want to be heard and make their points known.

X3 was heavily promoted and marketed, mostly prior to release. Very little marketing after release (they'd probably spent all their money!).

Haha, yes exactly.

I believe marketing got people in those seats as much as any popularity built up by the previous X-movies.

Except that X3 depends on the success and storylines established by the first 2 films. You really can't understand X3 unless you understand what happened in the first 2. That's like watching Return of the King or Return of the Jedi without seeing the 2 movies that come before it. Sure you can still enjoy yourself, but you won't really understand what's happened and why.

No one can deny that X3 did astonishingly well at the box office.

Again that's a simplified argument. Absolute ticket sales are not the soul indicator of whether a movie does astonishingly well, not until you factor in how much the movie itself cost to make and how much of the money from ticket sales comes after paying off its cost of production. If you factor all that in, then it's not so impressive.

 

[YJ1]

And i still wanna know how i was the one to mention BB first in this thread.

Ahem... try page six, Nimrod.

Anyone who tells me its BS that BB is considered one of the best comic movies and that X3 isnt really needs a reality check.

By the way, I said it was BS that X3 is hated by all X-fans like you said and it's BS that X3 somehow underperformed since it was front loaded. In fact, most of what you say is BS EXCEPT the fact that BB is a respected film. Like X3, respected critics such as Roger Ebert had their thumbs way up and deservingly so for both films.

I hate to continue to burst bubbles around here by letting a little thing like reality come in to play but Batman Begins spent MORE on it's advertising budget then X3. A then record $100 million was spent on BB because the WB actually thought it was going to do Spider-Man type numbers. I can't wait to see how people spin this fact. Oh wait, yes I can.

Oh yeah, X3 got trounced by a movie with Jennifer Aniston and Vince Vaughn. That's has to suck.

Exsqueeze me? Baking powder? What color is the sky in your world?

X-Men Last Stand: 440 million and counting
The Break Up: 156 million

Are you one of those people that watch a football game and think that if a team wins a quarter they win the game?

Example:
...............1. 2. 3. 4. Final
X-Men 3: 35 07 14 14 70
Break Up: 07 14 07 00 28

Yes, X3 was trounced in that second quarter.

Note of advice: It's fine to stick to your opinion that you don't care for this movie but quit embarrassing yourselves by bringing up box office numbers and real facts.

 

[The Batman]

So X3 didnt get a mixed reaction? I guess because Ebert gave it thumbs up it means the majority liked it? And i never said ALL X-Fans hated it. Fact: X3 got mixed reviews, and a 57 on RT, and it didnt have legs. Cant wait for you to try to spin that.

 

[chaseter]

So X3 didnt get a mixed reaction? I guess because Ebert gave it thumbs up it means the majority liked it? And i never said ALL X-Fans hated it. Fact: X3 got mixed reviews, and a 57 on RT, and it didnt have legs. Cant wait for you to try to spin that.

Ebert giving it thumbs up doesn't mean the majority or Americans liked it...the box office numbers say that for it. Guess what else! A lot of critics hate POTC 2 and People magazine even said that it got old really quickly seeing Depp run like a girl after the first 2 times. They gave it 3 out of 5 stars I believe. But guess what happened...it broke box office records...like X3 did. I am sure you are one of the purists on here still trying to salvage what is left of SR. So many people thought it would be the best movie of the summer...but was so sadly stomped on by POTC that opened the next weekend. If you want to talk about "legs", go complain on the Supes thread. That poor movie didn't even pour a profit.

A movie that is so hyped and advertised like X3 was is going to have the majority of the fans go see it opening weekend.

 

[CapBeerCino]

A guy opens a thread for stoping people complaining about X3 and 90% of the posts are all against the idea....hope this result will make him see the reality.
And sometimes I think some Wolverine fans are quite easy to satisfy...they will gladly embrace anything the filmmakers feed them as long as they get Wovie bouncing around and clawing everything.
Honestly, those metal claws aren't worthy of all that attention of the three X-Men movies combined.

I was thinking the same thing. What Hugh Jackman played in TLS may be many things, but Wolverine isn't one of them.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Ebert giving it thumbs up doesn't mean the majority or Americans liked it...the box office numbers say that for it. Guess what else! A lot of critics hate POTC 2 and People magazine even said that it got old really quickly seeing Depp run like a girl after the first 2 times. They gave it 3 out of 5 stars I believe. But guess what happened...it broke box office records...like X3 did. I am sure you are one of the purists on here still trying to salvage what is left of SR. So many people thought it would be the best movie of the summer...but was so sadly stomped on by POTC that opened the next weekend. If you want to talk about "legs", go complain on the Supes thread. That poor movie didn't even pour a profit.

A movie that is so hyped and advertised like X3 was is going to have the majority of the fans go see it opening weekend.

Actually SR is ranked 11th as one of the highest grossing movies of the summer. So it didn't do too bad at all, but yes, considering the hype that was involved it did underperform and didn't break records as others thought it would.

Hell, I thought because it was a new Superman movie I figured people would flock to see it. But I was wrong.

I knew POTC 2 would make a lot of money, just didn't know it would break Spider-Man's record and stayed number one for three weeks. I feel if SR had opened at the beginning of June rather than the end of it, the film itself would've done a lot better and probably would've grossed more money.

To me it's the living example of what happens when you try to take two big movies and have them compete literally at the same time.

But I enjoyed POTC 2 and SR equally, so it really didn't bother me in anyway shape or form.

 

[ntcrawler]

I was thinking the same thing. What Hugh Jackman played in TLS may be many things, but Wolverine isn't one of them.

Once again CapBeerCino, the quotation in your signature holds true

The point is that there are certain fundamental characteristics that make the "X-Men" what they are. When you violate those characteristics, you take away the story's identity as being the X-men. You can interpret things any way you want to, you can do anything you want with the story, but when you make too many changes, end up with characters that are acting out of character and doing things out of character, and changed recognized, established stories around too much (crossing that imaginary but understood boundary), then that's fine but it shouldn't be called "X-Men" anymore.

 

[The Batman]

Ebert giving it thumbs up doesn't mean the majority or Americans liked it...the box office numbers say that for it. Guess what else! A lot of critics hate POTC 2 and People magazine even said that it got old really quickly seeing Depp run like a girl after the first 2 times. They gave it 3 out of 5 stars I believe. But guess what happened...it broke box office records...like X3 did. I am sure you are one of the purists on here still trying to salvage what is left of SR. So many people thought it would be the best movie of the summer...but was so sadly stomped on by POTC that opened the next weekend. If you want to talk about "legs", go complain on the Supes thread. That poor movie didn't even pour a profit.

A movie that is so hyped and advertised like X3 was is going to have the majority of the fans go see it opening weekend.

No, not really. Didnt really enjoy SR, and i dont try to defend it. much like the dumbass YJ1, you assume because of my SN that i have some bias for DC heroes.

And again....Potc was the number one movie for three weeks. X3 got beaten by a romantic comedy in its second, and faced a hulk like drop in numbers. it didnt have legs. no one wanted to see it more than once, besides fanboys.

A good Xmen flick wouldve had the majority of fans going back time and time again.

 

[Mike059jig]

Guess what else! A lot of critics hate POTC 2 and People magazine even said that it got old really quickly seeing Depp run like a girl after the first 2 times. They gave it 3 out of 5 stars I believe. But guess what happened...it broke box office records...like X3 did.

when a movie is hated by the critics and general audience/fans want to show they like it and they keep on top for three straight weeks and continual break records like pirates...