Superboy's status?

[TheCorpulent1]

The best was when Kara beat the crap out of Conner and still got treated like the poster child for all that's good and wonderful while Conner still got treated like crap.

 

[storyteller]

Superboy was the closest clark had to a son until this new kid. Really he greived for like 2 minutes when conner died. And When kara first showed its like superboy did mean crap.

Hell at least the flash know how to treat family.

 

[freemadison]

The best was when Kara beat the crap out of Conner and still got treated like the poster child for all that's good and wonderful while Conner still got treated like crap.

God, i hate her...

Poor Conner....

Hell at least the flash know how to treat family.

Flash and GA know how to treat family. Superman, on the other hand, is constantly wallowing in self-pity about being "alone"....what a loser..

 

[Primal Slayer]

The best was when Kara beat the crap out of Conner and still got treated like the poster child for all that's good and wonderful while Conner still got treated like crap.

She beat the crap out of Conner? When did this happen? I just remember her punching him after he went off on her for showing up at the farm.

And Kara got the new kid treatment when she first arrived since well she was new and needed more guidance and help at the time. Conner was already established, had a life, a family, friends. Clark never even asked his parents to take care of Kara or asked her to move in with him and Lois after she went off to Paradise Island.

And Supergirl gets just as much if not less time with Supes as Conner did.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

Renaming him would've been admitting that they were wrong. Killing him off, however, is admitting they're wrong and making the readers suffer for it. And if DC can't get Superboy fans to suffer for one reason or another, they're not doing their jobs.

His death was awesome though and it was the way a Superman or boy or whatever should go out. A great moment in comics. He died alongside Nightwing (young Batman) and Donna (young WW) while the big 3 should have been there. He died setting an example, which the book says the iconic "S" on your chest demands you do, and which Superman does at the end against Superboy Prime. It was a great way to kill off a character who has always had a hard time finding a good direction. No more bringing back dead characters. It unlearns life's lessons and downplays great moments. MOVE FORWARD!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

She beat the crap out of Conner? When did this happen? I just remember her punching him after he went off on her for showing up at the farm.

And Kara got the new kid treatment when she first arrived since well she was new and needed more guidance and help at the time. Conner was already established, had a life, a family, friends. Clark never even asked his parents to take care of Kara or asked her to move in with him and Lois after she went off to Paradise Island.

And Supergirl gets just as much if not less time with Supes as Conner did.

Supergirl got more time with Superman in her first year than Conner did over his entire existence. From the very beginning, Clark treated her better because she was his cousin and not some stinking clone. She didn't just get the "new kid treatment," she got so much love and attention from Clark that she found it stifling. Conner wishes he could've felt stifled by Clark. Also, let's see, dumping a kid off at your parents' doorstep to do manual labor or bringing a kid to a mythical island of powerful role models who'll teach her to be a nearly unstoppable warrior? Which one do you think is better? Plus, as I mentioned before, he didn't invite her to stay with the Kents or with him and Lois because Supergirl felt like he was stifling her. Conner screwed up and Clark scolded him. Kara screws up--constantly and by doing a lot more damage than Conner ever did, by the way--and Clark tells her he loves her and wants to help her. I can't even believe this is a comparison. Superman was like an angry, patronizing big brother to Conner, yet he's a gentle, loving father figure to Kara. She's got it a hundred times better than Conner ever did.

 

[Primal Slayer]

How is making Conner live with the Kents worse then having to go live on Paradise Island? The Kents loved Conner and gave him a family and were raising him just like they did Clark.

And I cant believe that Clark never said I love you to Conner to something to that extent.

I havent read that much stuff featuring Conner so I cant really make a full accurate argument when it comes to his and Clarks relationship.

I can say though that I think it is really stupid by the writers who write Superman and Action to not have an issue or two dealing with Clark/Superman mourning over Conner.

But dont blame Kara for the writers stupid mistakes. She even missed him and was somewhat saddened by not being asked to live with the Kents.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Imagine you're a teenager with super-powers. Now imagine you have a mentor with similar powers and a similar heritage. Now imagine that mentor asks you what you'd prefer, living with his parents and getting chores, curfew, manual labor to do around the farm, and having to keep your powers secret from everyone every day, or living on an island of immortals who'll understand you, where you can embrace your power and learn to hone it into a powerful weapon to help your mentor fight evil. It'd be no contest for me.

As for Kara moruning Conner, that's nice. The question wasn't about Kara and Conner's relationship, though. It was about how Clark has treated Kara much better than he ever treated Conner. Regarding that, we don't know why Clark hasn't invited Kara to live with the Kents. Maybe he wanted to spare his parents the possibility of losing another child they would've taken in and loved. I very much doubt it was to spite Kara in some way, though. Either way, it's a moot point. So Clark gave Conner one thing he didn't give Kara. He's given Kara worlds more than he ever did Conner, even though she's been more irresponsible and caused more damage to both Superman and other heroes than Conner ever did.

 

[Primal Slayer]

If Conner were grounded 24/7 and wasnt allowed to use his powers, living on an island of immortals would sound great. But its not like he wasnt around other heroes, he was with the Titans every week and was able to use his powers to his liking if I remember. And reading up on him a bit on wikipedia, he did live on his own for a little bit then accepted the invitation of living with the Kents (correct me if im wrong) so it doesnt sound like he was forced to live with him.

I can see it be more tempting for WonderGirl, but the Kents dont seem like they ever restricted Conner from his hero activities.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Double Post

 

[TheCorpulent1]

If Conner were grounded 24/7 and wasnt allowed to use his powers, living on an island of immortals would sound great. But its not like he wasnt around other heroes, he was with the Titans every week and was able to use his powers to his liking if I remember. And reading up on him a bit on wikipedia, he did live on his own for a little bit then accepted the invitation of living with the Kents (correct me if im wrong) so it doesnt sound like he was forced to live with him.

I can see it be more tempting for WonderGirl, but the Kents dont seem like they ever restricted Conner from his hero activities.

I'm sure it wasn't hell on Earth living with the Kents, but the fact is that he was still basically a regular kid under them with rules, restrictions, punishments, chores, and all the other crap kids hate. You're focusing on the positives of Conner's living with the Kents, but even if they weren't tempered by the negatives, they still wouldn't really compare to the positives of living on Paradise Island.

Conner accepted the invitation to live with the Kents because it was one of the very, very few moments of bonding Clark shared with him. Some genes, the invitation to live with the Kents, and Conner's Kryptonian name are pretty much the only things Clark ever gave him.

 

[Conan]

I'm sure it wasn't hell on Earth living with the Kents, but the fact is that he was still basically a regular kid under them with rules, restrictions, punishments, chores, and all the other crap kids hate. You're focusing on the positives of Conner's living with the Kents, but even if they weren't tempered by the negatives, they still wouldn't really compare to the positives of living on Paradise Island.

Conner accepted the invitation to live with the Kents because it was one of the very, very few moments of bonding Clark shared with him. Some genes, the invitation to live with the Kents, and Conner's Kryptonian name are pretty much the only things Clark ever gave him.

Conner accepted living with the Kents because he would have been homeless if he didn't. You have to read Superboy issue 90-100. Young Justice kicked him out of their headquarters and so he had to get a place to live but getting a job wasn't as easy. Also Superman's feeling to Conner was mixed because he always felt like Conner was trying to take his place; you see that come out in Superboy's tie in to Young Justice: Sins of the Youth.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Superman's ******ed, then.

 

[BrianWilly]

I don't see living with the Kents as being a bad thing for Conner. It was exactly what he needed at that point in his life. And Superman was giving Conner exactly what Superman thought was the bestest thang evar for him. To simple idealistic Clark, living with someone like the Kents is pretty much paradise. And c'mon, Clark gave him Krypto. That's a kickass thing to give someone.

Conner only whined about being with the Kents for a little bit and then he grew used to it. And even then he only whined because he was a teenager and felt cooped up, which being with the Titans fixed. Kara whined about being on Themiscyra, too, 'cause she also felt cooped up; in her own words, there was no crime, no poverty, no bad stuff whatsoever...which should be paradise unless you happened to be a superhero who wanted to fight crime. Also, no boys. Morever, it wasn't even Clark's idea to put Kara on Themiscyra anyway; it was due to Batman and Wonder Woman. And it's not like Conner could live on Themiscyra anyway. He would explode from being in the vicinity of all that vagina.

I don't think much of an argument can be made for Superman being unfair to Conner at the time of Johns' Teen Titans reboot; at that point, Superman was interested in Conner's life and took an active role in it.

A much better argument would be to look further back in continuity into the late 90s and early 2000s. Back then? Clark acted like he practically despised him. He made virtually no contact with the boy who should genetically be his little brother, and basically left him to be raised by strangers in Hawaii and then by scientists at Cadmus. When they did meet, it almost always felt a bit antagonistic and condescending on the part of Clark. And the worst part is that he never let Conner in on his secret identity and Conner had to find out from an alternate universe Superboy. And then Conner had the patience to wait for Clark to finally get around to telling him. And then Conner eventually understood about his need for privacy -- a "Fortress of Solitude" -- and forgave him for it. I repeat: Conner forgave him.

Compare that with these first few years of Kara's life. Superman was practically obsessed with her and went out of his way to do everything he could possibly do for her; giving her a home, inviting her into his fortress and his life, etc etc. He gave her a costume, tacitly approving that this strange girl be his successor, his legacy, whereas for years he grumbled and complained about whether or not Conner was ever fit to wear the S-shield. Here was this new girl who had done absolutely nothing to earn his trust or loyalty, and yet there were no concerns whatsoever regarding immediately revealing his secret identity to her where he withheld it from Conner for years.

Any way you look at it, it was a big ol' gyp.

 

[Primal Slayer]

He did all that stuff to Kara since he found out that she was his cousin and a family member so ofcourse he was excited and it got the best of him. Had Conner been from Krypton and came to earth and Supes found him and found that he was one of his relatives he thought to be dead, he would have done the same.

Clark pushed Conner away to much for a long time and Clark paid to much attention to Kara for a long time and didnt give her the space she needed. Now ofcourse it seems like they are on a good balanced level.

 

[LadyVader]

Well that is just plain bigotry. What does it matter where Conner was born? He was his flesh and blood. It's not like Clark remembers that much from Krypton anyway. He didn't grow up there, he grew up here. Earth has always been his home. As such he should feel no bigger connection to Kara than he did to Conner.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Exactly. Plus, Clark gave Conner a Kryptonian name from the house of El--Kon-El. Unless taking a person's last name means something entirely different on Krypton, that was a tacit agreement between the two of them that Clark viewed Conner as family, yet he still never treated Conner as well as he does Kara.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Never said the he didnt view Conner as less of a family member then he did Kara but ofcourse he is going to be excited to find his cousin when he thought all of his family members were dead and shower her with things.

Did you expect him to treat her like everyone else when he first met her? "wow your my cousin from krypton, thats nice. Well you can stay here in the fortress for as long as you want, im going to go save the day. See ya later"

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You said he never treated Kara any better than he did Conner. Or, at least, you heavily implied it by arguing that side of the point with me for the last few hours.

 

[Primal Slayer]

You said he never treated Kara any better than he did Conner. Or, at least, you heavily implied it by arguing that side of the point with me for the last few hours.

And Kara got the new kid treatment when she first arrived since well she was new and needed more guidance and help at the time. Conner was already established, had a life, a family, friends. Clark never even asked his parents to take care of Kara or asked her to move in with him and Lois after she went off to Paradise Island.



And Supergirl gets just as much if not less time with Supes as Conner did.

After the shock value of Karas "newness" to earth, he wasnt constantly showering her with everything and totally ignoring Conner and only hanging around Kara.



But this is what I found that best represents how he first felt about Kara when she first arrived:

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Supergirl got more time with Superman in her first year than Conner did over his entire existence. From the very beginning, Clark treated her better because she was his cousin and not some stinking clone. She didn't just get the "new kid treatment," she got so much love and attention from Clark that she found it stifling. Conner wishes he could've felt stifled by Clark. Also, let's see, dumping a kid off at your parents' doorstep to do manual labor or bringing a kid to a mythical island of powerful role models who'll teach her to be a nearly unstoppable warrior? Which one do you think is better? Plus, as I mentioned before, he didn't invite her to stay with the Kents or with him and Lois because Supergirl felt like he was stifling her. Conner screwed up and Clark scolded him. Kara screws up--constantly and by doing a lot more damage than Conner ever did, by the way--and Clark tells her he loves her and wants to help her. I can't even believe this is a comparison. Superman was like an angry, patronizing big brother to Conner, yet he's a gentle, loving father figure to Kara. She's got it a hundred times better than Conner ever did.

To be fair, Wonder Woman didn't give him much choice.

 

[Morrison]

This is my opinion on the topic:

I don't see living with the Kents as being a bad thing for Conner. It was exactly what he needed at that point in his life. And Superman was giving Conner exactly what Superman thought was the bestest thang evar for him. To simple idealistic Clark, living with someone like the Kents is pretty much paradise. And c'mon, Clark gave him Krypto. That's a kickass thing to give someone.

Conner only whined about being with the Kents for a little bit and then he grew used to it. And even then he only whined because he was a teenager and felt cooped up, which being with the Titans fixed. Kara whined about being on Themiscyra, too, 'cause she also felt cooped up; in her own words, there was no crime, no poverty, no bad stuff whatsoever...which should be paradise unless you happened to be a superhero who wanted to fight crime. Also, no boys. Morever, it wasn't even Clark's idea to put Kara on Themiscyra anyway; it was due to Batman and Wonder Woman. And it's not like Conner could live on Themiscyra anyway. He would explode from being in the vicinity of all that vagina.

I don't think much of an argument can be made for Superman being unfair to Conner at the time of Johns' Teen Titans reboot; at that point, Superman was interested in Conner's life and took an active role in it.

A much better argument would be to look further back in continuity into the late 90s and early 2000s. Back then? Clark acted like he practically despised him. He made virtually no contact with the boy who should genetically be his little brother, and basically left him to be raised by strangers in Hawaii and then by scientists at Cadmus. When they did meet, it almost always felt a bit antagonistic and condescending on the part of Clark. And the worst part is that he never let Conner in on his secret identity and Conner had to find out from an alternate universe Superboy. And then Conner had the patience to wait for Clark to finally get around to telling him. And then Conner eventually understood about his need for privacy -- a "Fortress of Solitude" -- and forgave him for it. I repeat: Conner forgave him.

Compare that with these first few years of Kara's life. Superman was practically obsessed with her and went out of his way to do everything he could possibly do for her; giving her a home, inviting her into his fortress and his life, etc etc. He gave her a costume, tacitly approving that this strange girl be his successor, his legacy, whereas for years he grumbled and complained about whether or not Conner was ever fit to wear the S-shield. Here was this new girl who had done absolutely nothing to earn his trust or loyalty, and yet there were no concerns whatsoever regarding immediately revealing his secret identity to her where he withheld it from Conner for years.

Any way you look at it, it was a big ol' gyp.

 

[BrianWilly]

^Good opinions.

He did all that stuff to Kara since he found out that she was his cousin and a family member so ofcourse he was excited and it got the best of him. Had Conner been from Krypton and came to earth and Supes found him and found that he was one of his relatives he thought to be dead, he would have done the same.

You say that like it's a good thing. Like it's so admirable that Clark completely abandoned the boy who needed his guidance for years and it's only natural that he would trip all over himself to coddle the strange girl who pops up claiming to be his cousin.

He told her his secret identity. He gave her more and faster access to his life and his parents than he ever gave anyone. He gave her his costume and his legacy without her ever even remotely having proven to deserve any of it. He should have known better than that. Even Supergirl herself thought it was bizarre. And considering all this came on the heels of him having denied each and every single one of those things to Conner, I think it's pretty fair to say that Conner got "treated like crap" compared to her.

 

[LadyVader]

Now I even miss him even more, damnit!

 

[freemadison]

Conner accepted the invitation to live with the Kents because it was one of the very, very few moments of bonding Clark shared with him. Some genes, the invitation to live with the Kents, and Conner's Kryptonian name are pretty much the only things Clark ever gave him.

And that stupid ass dog...even Clark thought Krypto was annoying...

Well that is just plain bigotry. What does it matter where Conner was born? He was his flesh and blood. It's not like Clark remembers that much from Krypton anyway. He didn't grow up there, he grew up here. Earth has always been his home. As such he should feel no bigger connection to Kara than he did to Conner.

THANK YOU! There may not be a bigger bias and practiced form of bigotry in comics than the unfair mistreatment of clones. Both Peter Parker and Clark Kent are cold towards their clones at first, then warm up to them, and then the clone dies without ONE GODDAMN FOLLOWUP ISSUE showing remorse.

Btw, does anyone have scans that show Kon-El discovering Clark's secret identity?