Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 55

[Juan1193]

Poison Ivy would go close.

Not in a million years!

1)Wonder Woman
2)Harley Quinn
3)Supergirl
4)Catwoman
5)Batgirl

If I continue:

6)Poison Ivy
7)Hawkgirl
8)Starfire
9)Raven
10)Zatanna/Vixen/Black Canary/Katana/Powergirl/Jessica Cruz (idk)

 

[jmc]

I'd actually argue one of the Teen Titans girls would rank higher than her. Lot of people grew up with that TV show.

 

[flickchick85]

I'd actually argue one of the Teen Titans girls would rank higher than her. Lot of people grew up with that TV show.

And you would be wrong. Lots of people grew up with a lot of different characters. Doesn't make them famous across generations. Ask most people of any age, and they know who Supergirl is. My mom would know her, my grandparents would've known her, my 10-year-old cousin who doesn't watch superhero cartoons would know her. Can't say the same for the Teen Titans.

 

[jmc]

And you would be wrong. Lots of people grew up with a lot of different characters. Doesn't make them famous across generations. Ask most people of any age, and they know who Supergirl is. My mom would know her, my grandparents would've known her. Can't say the same for the Teen Titans.

The very reason WB are even in this situation is because of that very assumption. Being known is not the same as being popular.

 

[Kane52630]

The Internet Wants Nicolas Cage For The Next Superman

 

[flickchick85]

The very reason WB are even in this situation is because of that very assumption. Being known is not the same as being popular.

It's not, but it's name recognition. Step One. Step Two is the far more important step. Even Wonder Woman wouldn't have been a hit if it hadn't been good. Her relatively low opening weekend proved that, and she's inarguably the most "popular" superheroine in existence. Step One gets eyeballs on your film, and her name recognition ensures there will be plenty of eyes on Supergirl. Step Two: make a good movie that people love. And voila, actual popularity.

Because here's the secret we superhero fans seem to have a hard time with: Superhero movies aren't hits because of us. They're hits because of all those other people who didn't grow up with the characters and just want a good movie to take their kids, grandkids, nieces and nephews to, who couldn't tell you the difference between Dick Grayson or Tim Drake, Kara Danvers or Carol Danvers. What's "popular" to superhero fans doesn't matter to these people. The MCU wouldn't be a hit if it was just working for Marvel fans. Gotta appeal to that general audience and those infamous 4-quadrants, or forget about it. And Supergirl can do that. Grandparents will trust her, lol. Now they just need to make it an actual good movie that makes the members of those 4-quadrants want to see it again.

 

[StarLord]

What.

 

[I Am The Knight]

The Internet Wants Nicolas Cage For The Next Superman

I still want Superman Lives.

Bring Kevin Smith and Burton back.

 

[jmc]

It's not, but it's name recognition. Step One. Step Two is the far more important step. Even Wonder Woman wouldn't have been a hit if it hadn't been good. Her relatively low opening weekend proved that, and she's inarguably the most "popular" superheroine in existence. Step One gets eyeballs on your film, and her name recognition ensures there will be plenty of eyes on Supergirl. Step Two: make a good movie that people love. And voila, actual popularity.

Except we're in a situation where confidence in this universe is at rock bottom. Why the hell would any one be dumb enough to believe WB have learned anything from the past? I'd be willing to bet money this is the justification for doing Supergirl from those at WB - "We can't figure out Superman, she's the next best thing, plus Wonder Woman was popular". You can't be popular if no-one has confidence in what you are doing.

 

[flickchick85]

Except we're in a situation where confidence in this universe is at rock bottom. Why the hell would any one be dumb enough to believe WB have learned anything from the past? I'd be willing to bet money this is the justification for doing Supergirl from those at WB - "We can't figure out Superman, she's the next best thing, plus Wonder Woman was popular". You can't be popular if no-one has confidence in what you are doing.

No one had confidence in Wonder Woman, yet here she is. Just get the right filmmakers and star, and the confidence can come.

Also, it's very clear changes started being made from JL onward. The entire ship is clearly changing course, and it could very well be for the better, it's too soon to tell. Their upcoming films could be inching in a more positive direction for all we know. The way the movie business works, it takes a year or two to see those changes actually start to take effect.

 

[StarLord]

I still want Superman Lives.

Bring Kevin Smith and Burton back.

Burton does not care for the Fatman on Batman.

 

[jmc]

No one had confidence in Wonder Woman, yet here she is. Just get the right filmmakers and star, and the confidence can come.

Wonder Woman, like Nolan's Batman, was a fluke. And what did WB do? The same thing they always did, they learned the wrong lessons from that film, and are clearly learning the wrong lessons from Wonder Woman. No-one at WB gives a **** about these characters. As long as the company itself is only interested in which characters it can ****e out you're never going to get to the stage where there's confidence in the franchise, because people have seen through this charade. The DCEU, or whatever it's meant to be called, is a complete failure due to neglect, and assuming it's just a case of getting the right people in is ignoring the reality that those running the joint don't care enough about the characters they are dealing with in the first place.

Edit: Seriously ****e is censored?

 

[flickchick85]

Wonder Woman, like Nolan's Batman, was a fluke. And what did WB do? The same thing they always did, they learned the wrong lessons from that film, and are clearly learning the wrong lessons from Wonder Woman. No-one at WB gives a **** about these characters. As long as the company itself is only interested in which characters it can ****e out you're never going to get to the stage where there's confidence in the franchise, because people have seen through this charade. The DCEU, or whatever it's meant to be called, is a complete failure due to neglect, and assuming it's just a case of getting the right people in is ignoring the reality that those running the joint don't care enough about the characters they are dealing with in the first place.

What you're missing is that the vast majority of the people watching these movies don't even know what the DCEU IS. They haven't "seen through the charade" because they aren't following it in the slightest. They don't know the difference between DC and Marvel. They don't care about ANY of that nonsense. They just want movies that they and their families can enjoy when they want to go out for the weekend. Put out a Supergirl movie that looks good and IS good, and those people will check it out. It's really that simple. That's how the MCU found its audience - not from pleasing Marvel fans, but by putting out movies that looked like a good time and delivered.

I think it's a little early to say WB can't figure that out, since Aquaman looks to be somewhat of a step in that direction (though kind of awkward since they're still using leftover pieces from the OLD direction, but I digress). Better evidence should be Birds of Prey and WW84. Very curious to see what those will look like.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

What.

I'm going to kick myself in the behind for taking the word of the Hollywood Reporter.

 

[jmc]

What you're missing is that the vast majority of the people watching these movies don't even know what the DCEU IS. They don't know the difference between DC and Marvel. They don't care about ANY of that nonsense. They just want movies that they and their families can enjoy when they want to go out for the weekend. Put out a Supergirl movie that looks good and IS good, and those people will check it out. It's really that simple. That's how the MCU found its audience - not from pleasing Marvel fans, but by putting out movies that looked like a good time and delivered.

But you can't remove the Supergirl name from her association to Superman. It's impossible. If you were talking about a character like Black Canary or Hawkgirl it's a different story. She's associated with a lacklustre series whether they want her to be or not by virtue of her sharing the same symbol as her cousin.

 

[flickchick85]

But you can't remove the Supergirl name from her association to Superman. It's impossible. If you were talking about a character like Black Canary or Hawkgirl it's a different story. She's associated with a lacklustre series whether they want her to be or not by virtue of her sharing the same symbol as her cousin.

And that's irrelevant to most of the people watching. You seem to have it in your head that the world hates Superman now or something. That's simply not the case at all. Just look at the rejoicing that happened when it was announced he and Lois were joining the CW crossover. It was treated across all entertainment/TV sites as very good news. Kids and adults alike still wear Superman shirts, people still buy the comics. Just because people voted with their wallets that Snyder's Superman wasn't for them, doesn't mean they hate the symbol and everything it represents. A Supergirl movie should look absolutely nothing like Man of Steel or BvS, and if it doesn't, people won't associate it with Man of Steel or BvS. If it looks like a good movie and a fun time, people will go. You're really making a mountain out of molehill on this one.

 

[Timebomb]

I'm going to kick myself in the behind for taking the word of the Hollywood Reporter.

It's all cryptic. Just come out and say yes or no. If he is still Superman come tomorrow then I will be disappointed and also disappointed for Cavill.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm going to kick myself in the behind for taking the word of the Hollywood Reporter.

I personally take the word of the Hollywood Reporter over cryptic videos from actors and vague diplomatic statements from agents any day of the week.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

It's all cryptic. Just come out and say yes or know. If he is still Superman come tomorrow then I will be disappointed and also disappointed for Cavill.

I personally take the word of the Hollywood Reporter over cryptic videos from actors and vague diplomatic statements from agents any day of the week.

I'll just ignore everything until I get final confirmation.

 

[flickchick85]

I'll just ignore everything until I get final confirmation.

Have fun waiting for that. I hear there's guy called Godot coming in shortly afterwards.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Have fun waiting for that. I hear there's guy called Godot coming in shortly afterwards.

The wait will be very easy. Even though I enjoyed Justice League, that movie broke any desire I had to follow any DCEU piece of news, I just read what is brought to my attention in threads I frequent.

 

[Juan1193]

I'd actually argue one of the Teen Titans girls would rank higher than her. Lot of people grew up with that TV show.

True, Raven and Starfire are quite popular! It's a shame that their first live action portrayals are looking quite bad (trainwreck level bad).

 

[BaronZemo]

Some of you are completely ignorant about the rep of outlets like THR or Variety. When they report something it's 99% true. THis isn'ty bleeding cool or the Hastag show or whatever. This is the freaking Hoillywood Reporter. It existed long before any of you were born.

 

[flickchick85]

The trades (THR, Variety, Deadline) don't mess around. Managers, actors, agents, studio reps - they all play the BS game for their own PR agendas. The trades make it their business to cut through that and tell it like it is via their (very legit) long-term insider sources. If Cavill came out today with an Instagram video straight up saying he was still playing Superman, I wouldn't believe him if THR said not to, lol.

Remember at SDCC when Affleck came out and said he was definitely still playing Batman? Yeah. The trades have been calling BS on that all along. It's what they do.

 

[Spider-Fan]

What you're missing is that the vast majority of the people watching these movies don't even know what the DCEU IS. They haven't "seen through the charade" because they aren't following it in the slightest. They don't know the difference between DC and Marvel. They don't care about ANY of that nonsense. They just want movies that they and their families can enjoy when they want to go out for the weekend. Put out a Supergirl movie that looks good and IS good, and those people will check it out. It's really that simple. That's how the MCU found its audience - not from pleasing Marvel fans, but by putting out movies that looked like a good time and delivered.

I think it's a little early to say WB can't figure that out, since Aquaman looks to be somewhat of a step in that direction (though kind of awkward since they're still using leftover pieces from the OLD direction, but I digress). Better evidence should be Birds of Prey and WW84. Very curious to see what those will look like.

We get hung up on what is an A-list or B-list character more than your average movie-goer. Prior to our current superhero wave, the general public only had name recognition for a select few. But, movies without name recognition come out every year. No one knew who John Wick was until he had a movie for example. Of course now they do. If Supergirl looks good or is at least well marketed, people will see it. Like you pointed out, Marvel has proven that you don't need name recognition to build a brand. It's not a deal breaker to do Supergirl without Superman.

I still need sold on Aquaman though, lol.