Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 55

[flickchick85]

As we have seen recently, Feige doesn't have complete control.

What is this in reference to? I feel like I missed something.

 

[Sithborg]

What is this in reference to? I feel like I missed something.

Gunn.

 

[flickchick85]

Gunn.

Oh, nevermind. That's a lot of corporate branding BS. When a scandal like that hits, the bosses step in. But I'm pretty sure Feige still controls the MCU under regular circumstances. Disney has no reason to want to step on his toes, and billions of reasons not to.

 

[2kt09]

I can't take any fan seriously when they say they liked the Singerverse with Fox. Singer, Kinberg and those executives literally just googled a bunch of mutant characters, picked up the best ones that fit their narrative and that was that. Under no certain terms should Xavier and Mystique be foster brother/sister, the first crew of X-Men should not have included Magneto and the black leather suits were just no.

Can't wait for Kevin Feige to do his magic on this franchise.

I not only liked it, it's the standard I hold to as far what a Marvel, specifically, movie should be at its core...the intimacy of human interaction/action & not just glib genre mashers.
It's why I enjoy Spectacular Spider-Man or anything for that matter as much as I did.
I also admire how the respective trilogies evolved through tone and overall feel.

 

[Flint Marko]

I think Kinberg has enough connections at Disney that he is not going anywhere. As we have seen recently, Feige doesn't have complete control.

Nah. I can see Kinberg working on a Marvel movie in some consultant or producer capacity but nothing beyond that. Not a chance they’re gonna let him make any of the calls going forward.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I not only liked it, it's the standard I hold to as far what a Marvel, specifically, movie should be at its core...the intimacy of human interaction/action & not just glib genre mashers.
It's why I enjoy Spectacular Spider-Man or anything for that matter as much as I did.
I also admire how the respective trilogies evolved through tone and overall feel.

I’ll give them their props for X2 and DOFP as far as the Singerverse goes. I just can’t get for the neglect of the source material, and for a franchise as beloved as X-Men is, it’s a no go. I can respect different interpretations of stories but when it gets to the point of looking like an unnecessary Elseworlds story, I’m not with it. Atleast Disney will honor the storylines we all love with the mutants.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I think Kinberg has enough connections at Disney that he is not going anywhere. As we have seen recently, Feige doesn't have complete control.

Ehhh. A producer who has underperformed his last chance at bat, bringing less than stellar movies against a powerhouse film producer who’s movies ranks in billions? Disney is gonna bring him in over Feige?

 

[Timebomb]

I’ll give them their props for X2 and DOFP as far as the Singerverse goes. I just can’t get for the neglect of the source material, and for a franchise as beloved as X-Men is, it’s a no go. I can respect different interpretations of stories but when it gets to the point of looking like an unnecessary Elseworlds story, I’m not with it. Atleast Disney will honor the storylines we all love with the mutants.

I have to agree. I can't accept what they did to these characters (for the most part) and let's not get started on the continuity or lack there of.

 

[1627523]

I’ll give them their props for X2 and DOFP as far as the Singerverse goes. I just can’t get for the neglect of the source material, and for a franchise as beloved as X-Men is, it’s a no go. I can respect different interpretations of stories but when it gets to the point of looking like an unnecessary Elseworlds story, I’m not with it. Atleast Disney will honor the storylines we all love with the mutants.

One of the greatest things about DOFP was that was how at the end of the day it was character driven. DOFP could of so easily devolved to a sentinal vs X-men beat-down where The whole third act would be a fan service CGI fest with the future and past x-men teaming up and John Ottmon x-men theme playing in background while also having Bolivar trask say some damn cheesy dialogue about hating those "damn muties" and called it day similarly to Apocalypse, Age of Ultron, or hell even Black panther, but it refused to and instead opted for a third act where the freakin climax of the movie is a blue lady holding a gun and choosing whether or no to shoot a person with it or not. No skybeam, no big CGI army, and no last minute power ups to save the day. The climax is Literally just a characters choice and their growth, and the fact that the climax is as effective if not more than any of the climaxes in other blockbuster films is simply brilliant writing.

 

[2kt09]

@Shinobi Shaw
I legit have no clue on what the MCU will or won't with X-Men.
There's some basis with Homecoming, but that's still enough of a joint production to see where the Sony & MCU seams meet.
There's also some basis with the tv shows, but I can hardly see them letting the filmmakers do the Noah Hawley thing.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I can't take any fan seriously when they say they liked the Singerverse with Fox. Singer, Kinberg and those executives literally just googled a bunch of mutant characters, picked up the best ones that fit their narrative and that was that. Under no certain terms should Xavier and Mystique be foster brother/sister, the first crew of X-Men should not have included Magneto and the black leather suits were just no.

Can't wait for Kevin Feige to do his magic on this franchise.

I like them as movies, they work for me as movies, even with their obvious deviation.

Ehhh. A producer who has underperformed his last chance at bat, bringing less than stellar movies against a powerhouse film producer who’s movies ranks in billions? Disney is gonna bring him in over Feige?

View attachment 10475

What random obscure movie did this gif come from?

It should be the final punch in their series, so that's something to enjoy.

 

[Sithborg]

Ehhh. A producer who has underperformed his last chance at bat, bringing less than stellar movies against a powerhouse film producer who’s movies ranks in billions? Disney is gonna bring him in over Feige?

You mean the guy who gave a movie to the directors of You, Me, and Dupree? Yeah, I think you have a lot to be worried about if Kinberg scares you.

Of course, the fanboy theory that Feige would not want Kinberg involved may very well be wrong. Kinberg is clearly adept at studio politics, and it would not surprise me if he has already established a friendly relationship with Feige. And quite frankly, Kinberg is a very good producer, and would be an asset to Feige.

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

Snyder fans harassed Diane Nelson (the former DC Entertainment president) on twitter and she deleted her account.

 

[DACrowe]

That's where I just don't see how people can feel quite that way. If anyone looked at Winter Soldier or Civil War and said those films felt like they were the same tone as Guardians or Thor Ragnorok, I would star to seriously doubt their judge of tone, or if they really understand what the term means.

Not saying that I don't think there are similarities between the films. There are. The aesthetic being the one I agree with most. They do all share a similar visual flavor. Which does make sense to a certain extent. But even then, Guardians and Ragnorok have a very different look from the Russo films.

Tone-wise though, it's simply not true to try and claim all the films are similar in tone. This past twelve months alone saw Black Panther, Ragnorok, Infinity War, and Ant Man and the Wasp. Those films were all wildly different from one another tonally. And Homecoming was different tonally from the films I just mentioned. Marvel has been doing a very good job varying the tone of their films over the past four years. From 2009-2013 I would have agreed with the sentiment that they were in danger of making films that felt very tonally stagnant, but now it's fairly clear they are pushing into other genres and tones.

When I say tone and aesthetics, I'm talking about as movies as wildly different as once upon a time getting Spider-Man 2 and Batman Begins in back-to-back years, or even recently the difference between something like Deadpool and Logan, which is why I am one of the more vocally open-minded folks around here about "Fox-Men" in spite of, sigh, Kinberg's misfires.

When it comes to the MCU movies, what ties them together is far closer than what ties them apart. You can agree they all have a visual similarity, but narratively and tonally let's look at some of the others you listed. Guardians is one of if not my overall favorite MCU properties (shame they killed the golden goose), because there was so much of James Gunn's personality in it. That also is why he will be the first director they struggle to replace. Even so though, the first Guardians movie follows the same formula template of all the MCU movies in Phase 2, which post-Avengers is a bunch of disparate superpowered beings forming basically a band to fight a giant CGI threat to the world and/or universe at the end. The Guardians coming together to fight Ronan, Cap's team-up of Falcon, Widow, Fury, and Hill in TWS, Thor, Loki, Jane, and sigh, Jane's sidekicks in TDW, etc.

And tonally, they each use self-effacing humor as a defense mechanism, which is fine, but when they all do it they all tonally to varying degrees undercut their tension or differences, ironing out into an overall prepackaged feeling of similar safeness. So yes, TWS and CW play a little rougher than the other MCU movies, the same way Ant-Man plays a little softer, but you can feel the films engineered to get closer to a "default" scenario. In TWS, that involves a giant CGI slugfest and needless Macguffins in the third act so Cap can save the world, plenty of tension-deflating humor, and an emphasis on HYDRA so as to backpedal on any sincere political or social commentary and so as to not rock the MCU boat. CW embraces this more with the humor and glee of seeing Spidey trade barbs with Cap and Ant-Man grow enormous, so I prefer it. It also has the characters though in the "war" of the Civil War constantly joking with each other to suggest this is more of a friendly skirmish than a "war." Even the end that goes bleak, has to backpedal with Cap sending Tony a cellphone and basically apologizing, and then Tony making jokes at Ross' expense.

There's always a need to keep it right down the middle. Black Panther has the same third act problems as most MCU movies and still tonally feels very similar to most MCU movies, although thematically it adds more meat than most MCU movies, which is why I think it's one of the best.

Still, overall, there is a sameness that after 10 years is tangibly familiar. You look at Phoenix's Joker and you go, that's different! That is what some of us want more of. Not in the sense that they have to go crazy character actor/serial killer on something. But shake us out of apathy and come at this genre from a different angle.

 

[DACrowe]

The main issue I have with the Marvel criticism is how pointless it is. The MCU is enormously successful, both critically and financially, so there is zero incentive to Marvel actually changing what they do at this point in time. Why would Marvel want to do things like Fox or DC or Sony when those franchises have had some major struggles? That would be incredibly stupid of them.

That's not to say that everyone needs to like the MCU. Not at all. But much of the time it just comes off as fans of other franchises having sour grapes. I know I'd personally be doing a lot less complaining about DC, even if I hated it, if it was as successful as the MCU because I wouldn't really have a leg to stand on. I'd just have to live with it and move on.

Don't mistake criticisms of art or at least craft for that of commercial appeal.

I said I've largely enjoyed most of the MCU movies in the last two years. But when they are dominating the genre to the point where they're almost entirely the genre (or their imitators in the case of Venom, Aquaman, and Shazam), it is fair to have mixed feelings about a house style being the only option on the table.

Remember this only came up because people were surprised there was so much online enthusiasm for Phoenix's Joker being treated as a breath of fresh air.

 

[Iceman]

Don't mistake criticisms of art or at least craft for that of commercial appeal.

I said I've largely enjoyed most of the MCU movies in the last two years. But when they are dominating the genre to the point where they're almost entirely the genre (or their imitators in the case of Venom, Aquaman, and Shazam), it is fair to have mixed feelings about a house style being the only option on the table.

Remember this only came up because people were surprised there was so much online enthusiasm for Phoenix's Joker being treated as a breath of fresh air.

Agreed, but that is largely the fault of the other studios. No idea why everyone else decided to capitulate from one time positions of strength, as well as show quite unbelievable variation in quality. And I’m surprised that everyone isn’t interested in seeing Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker.

 

[Timebomb]

Snyder fans harassed Diane Nelson (the former DC Entertainment president) on twitter and she deleted her account.

Whatever happened to just plain human decency? Humanity is heading into a scary place. Sometimes it seems like fandom is leading the charge.

 

[Iceman]

Snyder fans harassed Diane Nelson (the former DC Entertainment president) on twitter and she deleted her account.

All these account deletions from high profile people who get hassled must give validation to the trolls. Surely there must be an effective way of policing twitter to stop all out attacks. It’s a shame as deleting an account feels like giving in and letting them win by giving them what they wanted.

 

[Sithborg]

Twitter knows they get too much money from harrassers to actually fight them. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming to clamp down on actual nazis. I have seen enough to know that there are too many in Silicon Valley who are sympathetic with the harassers on their platforms.

 

[Iceman]

Daredevil S3 sounds primed to be a banger, if the early buzz is to be believed.

As in better than what we’ve had so far? The early parts of season 2 are my favourite from the Netflix shows.

 

[Iceman]

Twitter knows they get too much money from harrassers to actually fight them. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming to clamp down on actual nazis. I have seen enough to know that there are too many in Silicon Valley who are sympathetic with the harassers on their platforms.

Oh right.

 

[Iceman]

I think Kinberg has enough connections at Disney that he is not going anywhere. As we have seen recently, Feige doesn't have complete control.

Damn, it’s a shame connections seem to mean so much even with such a record. I can’t see him being given serious power on such an important property as X-Men for the future of the MCU. Even if he was the son/husband/long lost brother of Horn, Feige and Iger they would surely realise letting him do anything important would be too risky.

 

[Sithborg]

Also, white guy in Hollywood. So, you really have to keep your expectations in check.

And again, the assumption that fanboys make is that Feige doesn't want to work with him. Which seems... unfounded and colored by fanboyism.

 

[Timebomb]

So Bumblebee and Aquaman both come out on December 21st. even though I said I wouldn't watch another Transformers movie, the latest teaser showing Soundwave ejecting Ravage, just made the decision on which movie I'll be watching that weekend. That shot has me giddy.

 

[Frankeh]

You mean the guy who gave a movie to the directors of You, Me, and Dupree? Yeah, I think you have a lot to be worried about if Kinberg scares you.

There is already enough to be worried about with Kinberg directing for the first time. A big X-Men sequel, no less.

I say no way Kinberg and Feige's creative ideas for this property are just gonna mesh together and they're gonna sing Kumbaya. Especially not after Kinberg already got the taste of having complete control over it with Dark Phoenix.