Superman (2025) Box Office Thread

[FrankenCastle]

Warner Bros. is happy with the numbers, and fans can breathe a sigh of relief.

That's just corporate talk. The movie overperformed domestically, but underperformed internationally. With a 225 million budget and a 125 marketing budget, and considering how box office works, by splitting the benefits, 600 million is barely breaking even. There's no doubt WBD was aiming for higher numbers.

Without a serious reduction of budgets, the days of relying on the superhero genre to keep studios afloat are running out of steam.

We'll still get a sequel, maybe not Superman 2, but he'll be part of it.

 

[donuts]

That's just corporate talk. The movie overperformed domestically, but underperformed internationally. With a 225 million budget and a 125 marketing budget, and considering how box office works, by splitting the benefits, 600 million is barely breaking even. There's no doubt WBD was aiming for higher numbers.

Without a serious reduction of budgets, the days of relying on the superhero genre to keep studios afloat are running out of steam.

We'll still get a sequel, maybe not Superman 2, but he'll be part of it.

Marketing costs generally do not factor into the break even point.

Anyway, the movie was successful. The studio is happy with the results, and they're fast tracking a follow up by James Gunn featuring Superman.

Context is important. Like I already said, Superman faced the same challenges that Batman Begins faced in 2005, and then some.

International reach can grow with the sequels, now that the character finally has some goodwill with movie audiences again.

 

[J.Drangal]

I think superhero fatigue is real and a bit underestimated, at least outside the US.

Of course, I can't speak for every territory, but in France, superheroes have never had the same cultural impact as in their country of origin. DC, in particular, has struggled with consistent publishing. Some titles were available in the early 90s thanks to Burton's Batman films and BTAS, but it wasn't until the 2010s and the golden age of CBMs that a publisher fully committed to the DC lineup.
Now, that momentum seems to be fading again. Sales are apparently down, and the publisher is diversifying beyond superheroes. This shift reflects a sense of weariness, which can be correlated with less federative films, but not only...

While I do believe the DCU can still thrive, I think studios, and everyone else for that matter, should adjust expectations of seeing numbers like in the 2010s. It was a special moment, and whatever anyone says, there was a trend effect. And trends come and go for various reasons.
I also firmly believe in a generational effect: the children of the 2000s who grew up with the MCU are now reaching an age where they may have other priorities, and today's youth, which will always be the main target of these films, seems more interested in manga and anime. In any case, it's the situation here.

When it comes to Superman, it should be said that his popularity in France always have been more symbolic than active—recognizable, but not a major draw. The 1978 Superman remains his top-grossing film with $2.6M, while Man of Steel made $2.3M. Batman and Spider-Man perform far better, with some films reaching $4M and $7M respectively.
James Gunn’s Superman made $1.3M— it's not a flop, but it's modest. That said, thanks to good reviews and a favorable reception from audiences, the saga should be on track to improve on those figures. But it's important to remain aware of its true potential, given everything I've tried to summarize here.

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As long as studios keep a cool head and continue to produce films where passion takes priority over the profit motive (which can't be denied), it should be enough to keep things alive.
However, I think it would be a good idea to scale back production budgets as these movies, in my opinion, don't need to be that expensive. A franchise where each installment generates around $500 to $600 million should be considered a success and this consistency should be the new goal.

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

Not by much at the moment, but F1 about to pull an 'On your left' with Superman. Never would've imagined that, but considering F1's budget, that's an incredible achievement, much like with how well Weapons is doing.

 

[FrankenCastle]

View attachment 146226

Not by much at the moment, but F1 about to pull an 'On your left' with Superman. Never would've imagined that, but considering F1's budget, that's an incredible achievement, much like with how well Weapons is doing.

F1 also has a higher rewatchability factor and feels fresher.

 

[donuts]

F1 also has a higher rewatchability factor and feels fresher.

Not really. And I really liked F1.

 

[flickchick85]

F1 also has a higher rewatchability factor and feels fresher.

Nah. I saw F1 on IMAX. Was really nice in that format, thanks in no small part to Zimmer's soundtrack blasting through those IMAX speakers. Never feeling the need to see it again tbh. There's nothing else to get out of it imo. No fresh story, no memorable characters or moments. Can't stop watching Superman, keep finding new little things to love.

Outside of the waning popularity of the superhero genre in general internationally (outside of nostalgia bait, of course), F1 is a much more popular sport internationally than in the US, and Brad Pitt still has some international cache. Supes and his brand of Americana is at a low point in international popularity, thanks in no small part to the current political climate. That's the main reason, I'd say. And on the flip side, that's why Supes crushed F1 domestically.

 

[FrankenCastle]

Nah. I saw F1 on IMAX. Was really nice in that format, thanks in no small part to Zimmer's soundtrack blasting through those IMAX speakers. Never feeling the need to see it again tbh. There's nothing else to get out of it imo. No fresh story, no memorable characters or moments. Can't stop watching Superman, keep finding new little things to love.

Outside of the waning popularity of the superhero genre in general internationally (outside of nostalgia bait, of course), F1 is a much more popular sport internationally than in the US, and Brad Pitt still has some international cache. Supes and his brand of Americana is at a low point in international popularity, thanks in no small part to the current political climate. That's the main reason, I'd say. And on the flip side, that's why Supes crushed F1 domestically.

I don't agree at all, Superman despite being my favorite superhero, was always viewed as "lame" and "has-been" since the 90s and always had far less appeal abroad. I'd rather not go political, but it has nothing to do with the current political climate, that's just a way to cope. The only smash hit Superman movie was the 1978 film, that also was released in a time were the US were at their lowest point (Nam, Nixon, Watergate...), and had a far more patriotic theme, the American Way and all that.

600 million is a miracle.

 

[donuts]

What cope? Movie's a hit.

 

[FrankenCastle]

What cope? Movie's a hit.

Saying the movie could've made more if it wasn't for a certain person in a certain position of power.

Realistically, between 600 and 700 million is the maximum a Superman movie can hope to reach.

I think that James Gunn's shouldn't have "canned" The Authority. What audience wants today is edgy anti-heroes, they want The Boys, Peacemaker, The Penguin, Joker; they want to root for the bad guys. You talk to normies about Superman, they diss you, you ask what they think of the new episode of Peacemaker or the Homelander show, they'll be all over you, telling you how great it is.

 

[STARMAN]

The poor OS totals greatly reduced the WW number to the point where 700 became virtually impossible and makes comparisons with other films underwhelming. If it had simply had a 50-50 BO split then you have 700 million and possibly more.

It has done particularly bad in Asian markets. Superman has made single digits in China, Japan, and South Korea. Jurassic World has made 71 million in China. F1 has made 59 million in China. It greatly trails those films in Japan and South Korea too.

 

[donuts]

I'm a firm believer that the Super-follow-up by Gunn will make overall better numbers Internationally thanks to the reception of this movie.

Quote me on that in a couple of years.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Saying the movie could've made more if it wasn't for a certain person in a certain position of power.

Realistically, between 600 and 700 million is the maximum a Superman movie can hope to reach.

I think that James Gunn's shouldn't have "canned" The Authority. What audience wants today is edgy anti-heroes, they want The Boys, Peacemaker, The Penguin, Joker; they want to root for the bad guys. You talk to normies about Superman, they diss you, you ask what they think of the new episode of Peacemaker or the Homelander show, they'll be all over you, telling you how great it is.

It objectively did well lol. Something doesn’t have to be an insane turbo smash to be a success. Obviously there’s a nuance to it with OS numbers, but it did well and they’re clearly positioned for a more successful sequel (domestically anyway, I think the genre might just be done OS and Superman feels inherently loaded as an American symbol - I do sincerely also think the movie plays differently for non Americans).

Leaving aside the elephant in the room that Superman is a children’s movie first and foremost which changes audience expectation: Sure, people like that stuff. They also spent a decade utterly obsessed with the MCU, a franchise of light hearted action comedies. People said all anyone wanted was edge and darkness These Days back then too.

 

[FrankenCastle]

It objectively did well lol. Something doesn’t have to be an insane turbo smash to be a success. Obviously there’s a nuance to it with OS numbers, but it did well and they’re clearly positioned for a more successful sequel (domestically anyway, I think the genre might just be done OS and Superman feels inherently loaded as an American symbol - I do sincerely also think the movie plays differently for non Americans).

Superman, the godfather of the superhero genre since the 40s doing less than 3 Guardians of the Galaxy movies, an unknown group of ragtags 10 years ago, both by the same director, no less. I know the landscape has changed, the weight of the MCU, all that, but it still looks insane to me. There's no way Zaslav, Safran, and even Gunn are not disappointed, at least a little bit.

I'm not American, Superman plays to me as Superman. Captain America stands for the U.S., but Superman is more like a superpowered first responder, not a vigilante like Batman, not a government-sponsored superhero like Captain America. Yes, the American way is part of Superman's motto, but so what? Dreams of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness should be the way of everybody; commitment to individual rights, the rule of law, and justice, ideals cherished by everyone, no matter where you are from, these are universal values, from the USA to Mongolia. People can actually differentiate between individuals and their governments, and I don't say that to diss this particular administration, it's just the way I see things around my part of the world.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Also funny to use "The Homelander Show" and Peacemaker as counterpoints for why the audience doesn't care anymore when there's a ton of stylistic and thematic overlap between them and Gunn's Superman. The latter is just for kids and has a main character who is nice lol

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Superman, the godfather of the superhero genre since the 40s doing less than 3 Guardians of the Galaxy movies, an unknown group of ragtags 10 years ago, both by the same director, no less. I know the landscape has changed, the weight of the MCU, all that, but it still looks insane to me. There's no way Zaslav, Safran, and even Gunn are not disappointed, at least a little bit.

I'm not American, Superman plays to me as Superman. Captain America stands for the U.S., but Superman is more like a superpowered first responder, not a vigilante like Batman, not a government-sponsored superhero like Captain America. Yes, the American way is part of Superman's motto, but so what? Dreams of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness should be the way of everybody; commitment to individual rights, the rule of law, and justice, values cherished by everyone, no matter where you are from, these are universal values, from the USA to Mongolia. People can actually differentiate between individuals and their governments, and I don't say that to diss this particular administration, it's just the way I see things around my part of the world.

The last thing I want to do is turn this into Superman Subtext Discourse because that way lies all of us very good natured, well-intentioned people getting very cross with each other. But, like, I am sure you're familiar with some of the pushback the movie has received. It reads as very, very American story - it's totally valid to disagree with that, but it feels disingenuous to pretend there's no reason to read the text that way.

No one thinks the OS wasn't a disappointment. Gunn has, gently, said as much. It's a problem and will probably continue to be a problem. But they seem to have gone into this movie with realistic expectations and goals: Relaunch Superman into the public eye, make people like him. They succeeded in that. It probably didn't come in the high end of their expectations - The Batman's ballpark, I'd imagine - but it sure didn't come in at the low end.

The Guardians comparison also doesn't work because Guardians wasn't the IP. Marvel was. At that moment in time, the MCU was either the biggest franchise in history or on the cusp of becoming it. The MCU was a far, far bigger deal than DC on film had ever been or ever will be - that completely supersedes whatever historical clout Superman has.

 

[FrankenCastle]

Also funny to use "The Homelander Show" and Peacemaker as counterpoints for why the audience doesn't care anymore when there's a ton of stylistic and thematic overlap between them and Gunn's Superman. The latter is just for kids and has a main character who is nice lol

I wanted to make that parallel, but I wasn't sure it could fit in the text. It's my favorite thematic in the movie. Part of me wished that Gunn had simply adapted What's so Funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way?, it could've spared us a convoluted plot by going straight to the heart of the matter.

 

[donuts]

We already have that. Both as a comic and animated movie.

I don't really have much of an interest to just see them do 1:1 adaptations of certain stories with characters that have such as vast history like Superman and the rest of the DC and Marvel bunch.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I wanted to make that parallel, but I wasn't sure it could fit in the text. It's my favorite thematic in the movie. Part of me wished that Gunn had simply adapted What's so Funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way?, it could've spared us a convoluted plot by going straight to the heart of the matter.

My biggest relief of the movie is he didn't do that. I am not a fan of the movie at all but I'd take it any day over that story. Nothing makes Superman feel more like a dinosaur than writing whiny fanfiction about him beating up caricatures of superheroes the writer doesn't like. That, ultimately, isn't about anything that matters - its just whining about the state of the genre.

It'd also wouldn't really work in a modern context because, like, its not as if The Boys or whatever is about how great it is to be an edgy violent prick. The characters that show (and most similar shows) are ultimately sympathetic to are all good people, its not as if Homelander is the main character. Sure, it frames some "edgy" characters as cool because its a fun action show and you can debate how healthy that is but Billy Butcher is explicitly framed as a toxic ****head.

 

[FrankenCastle]

The last thing I want to do is turn this into Superman Subtext Discourse because that way lies all of us very good natured, well-intentioned people getting very cross with each other. But, like, I am sure you're familiar with some of the pushback the movie has received. It reads as very, very American story - it's totally valid to disagree with that, but it feels disingenuous to pretend there's no reason to read the text that way.

The most rabid political pushback I've seen was actually from Israelis; they didn't like the parallels between Boravia and Jahranpur. Tho I'm sure it was coincidental, the script was written before the war, but to quote Mark Twain, truth is stranger than fiction.

The Guardians comparison also doesn't work because Guardians wasn't the IP. Marvel was. At that moment in time, the MCU was either the biggest franchise in history or on the cusp of becoming it. The MCU was a far, far bigger deal than DC on film had ever been or ever will be - that completely supersedes whatever historical clout Superman has.

This can be said about the first two movies. But GOTG 3 released when the MCU was at a historical low point, and still made an insane amount of money. Obviously, the brand got bigger, but it's still baffling that it made more money than not only Superman, but The Batman too.

 

[FrankenCastle]

My biggest relief of the movie is he didn't do that. I am not a fan of the movie at all but I'd take it any day over that story. Nothing makes Superman feel more like a dinosaur than writing whiny fanfiction about him beating up caricatures of superheroes the writer doesn't like. That, ultimately, isn't about anything that matters - its just whining about the state of the genre.

It'd also wouldn't really work in a modern context because, like, its not as if The Boys or whatever is about how great it is to be an edgy violent prick. The characters that show (and most similar shows) are ultimately sympathetic to are all good people, its not as if Homelander is the main character. Sure, it frames some "edgy" characters as cool because its a fun action show and you can debate how healthy that is but Billy Butcher is explicitly framed as a toxic ****head.

I think Superman vs The Elite did a pretty rad job adapting that story, but we all have our tastes and preferences.

 

[donuts]

Why is it baffling? Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 was the long awaited third chapter of a beloved trilogy.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

The most rabid political pushback I've seen was actually from Israelis; they didn't like the parallels between Boravia and Jahranpur. Tho I'm sure it was coincidental, the script was written before the war, but to quote Mark Twain, truth is stranger than fiction.

Sure, but that's an entirely separate part of the movie and discourse.

This can be said about the first two movies. But GOTG 3 released when the MCU was at a historical low point, and still made an insane amount of money. Obviously, the brand got bigger, but it's still baffling that it made more money than not only Superman, but The Batman too.

Also not a good comparison because GOTG was one of the classic MCU series still standing. People already knew and ****ing loved those characters, of course they were going to come back for the finale. People still turn out to Marvel properties they already recognize. It's not as if GOTG3 starred post-Endgame randos no one cared about.

 

[flickchick85]

I’ll just throw it out there too that a domestic-heavy split is PREFERRED by the studios over an international-heavy one. That means the movie made more money for them overall because they get a much bigger percentage of the revenue from the domestic box office than they do the overseas one. Obviously it would have been nice if it did as well internationally as it did here, but if it has to do substantially better in one market over the other, we got the good version of that split as far as WB and sequel prospects are concerned.

Movies can thrive just fine only being successful domestically. Domestic can carry them if made by a domestic studio, as the majority of their revenue will always come from that market. The only way international totals could carry them is if they make SO much overseas that they are at least tripling their domestic take (like later Transformers and Pirates installments have done). That’s why the trades largely focus their box office reporting on the domestic market the most, as it’s the one that matters most to the major studios, plain and simple.

 

[donuts]

Also worth noting that while International numbers are on the softer side, they are also not "BAD."