Superman in Comparison to "those other guys"

[Hunter Rider]

But wasn't that what the original poster was doing? He was saying that his film (Spider-man) did better than "our" film (Superman Returns)? Both Nell2ThaIzzay and I both addressed points that the original poster brought up and gave well thought out reasons to explain why SR happened to work better for us than what was shown in both Spider-man films.

As i said in the first post,the guy starting the thread got what he wanted, a fanboy pissing contest

Well judging from your avatar its clearly obvious why your here and i can only guess that the thread starter is a spidey fanboy but its clearly obvious this is what will happen if you post something like this is a superman forum.An example is Imagine a kid opening a website for his dad saying my dads the greatest and posts pics of his dad and then some other punk goes ahead and posts pics of thier dad on this kids dads sight and says my dads better dont you think the kid has a right to flare up since its his dads site, And besides if the same thing happened on the spidey forum those fanboys would flame the person out of existance either way its 50/50.

Firstly don't make the mistake of judging me from my avvy, i have had mutliple avvy's including BB and SR ones and have followed the film for it's entire production i just have this one right now as it was fresh from the teaser i liked
The rest of what you said is what i said in my first post when i mentioned the initial poster got what he wanted by pissing in another mans pool

 

[Tron5000]

Firstly don't make the mistake of judging me from my avvy, i have had mutliple avvy's including BB and SR ones and have followed the film for it's entire production i just have this one right now as it was fresh from the teaser i liked
The rest of what you said is what i said in my first post when i mentioned the initial poster got what he wanted by pissing in another mans pool

Word. Take a look at my posts and see where most of them are (right here on this board). My avatar is just something cool I wanted to see. Has no bearing on "allegiance" or anything like that.

 

[Hunter Rider]

HUNTER is one of the best posters around. Thats why HUNTER is here.

And he ain't playin' no favorites of Spidey over Supes. Believe it.

Thaks guys,i just have a general distaste for these types of fan on fan threads,they never end well
Im looking forward to seeing SR and to be honest it's frustrating not being able to discuss it fully given our late release date

 

[skruloos]

As i said in the first post,the guy starting the thread got what he wanted, a fanboy pissing contest

Pissing contest is one way to look at it. Another way is a discussion on why different movies worked for each individual with thought-out reasons to support it. At least until the few posters came in to flame away.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Word. Take a look at my posts and see where most of them are (right here on this board). My avatar is just something cool I wanted to see. Has no bearing on "allegiance" or anything like that.

Exactly,i have no allegiance,my only interest is in good movies,i don't care which comic franchise they come from,BB is my fav followed by Spidey 2,if i like SR better it will go to number 1

 

[SatEL]

As i said in the first post,the guy starting the thread got what he wanted, a fanboy pissing contest



Firstly don't make the mistake of judging me from my avvy, i have had mutliple avvy's including BB and SR ones and have followed the film for it's entire production i just have this one right now as it was fresh from the teaser i liked
The rest of what you said is what i said in my first post when i mentioned the initial poster got what he wanted by pissing in another mans pool

Alright fair enough perhapds i made a mistake in assuming from your avatar you were biase towards spiderman. I still think you have no right to say this persons a fanboy and that your fed up of fanboys this is a superhero site and who else are you going to find here but fanboys

 

[Tron5000]

Thaks guys,i just have a general distaste for these types of fan on fan threads,they never end well
Im looking forward to seeing SR and to be honest it's frustrating not being able to discuss it fully given our late release date

That really blows for you. I was kinda pissed that I had to see the midnight showing instead of the 10:00 one, but I guess your situation kinda puts that into perspective.

You'll probably enjoy it more because of the wait, though, so at least look at that aspect of it.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Pissing contest is one way to look at it. Another way is a discussion on why different movies worked for each individual with thought-out reasons to support it. At least until the few posters came in to flame away.

That's my point,if all posters discussed it from an objective stand point then it may work but it never does, it always degenerates into a childish war between biased fan sets and i thought that while you presented your view well the last comment was a jab IMO

 

[Hunter Rider]

Alright fair enough perhapds i made a mistake in assuming from your avatar you were biase towards spiderman. I still think you have no right to say this persons a fanboy and that your fed up of fanboys this is a superhero site and who else are you going to find here but fanboys

I never said i was fed up of fanboy's,i am one,what im fed up of is these endless Marvel/DC flame wars and that's all this is,no one goes to a rival board and starts this type of thread without expecting it to end up in a flame war

 

[Hunter Rider]

That really blows for you. I was kinda pissed that I had to see the midnight showing instead of the 10:00 one, but I guess your situation kinda puts that into perspective.

You'll probably enjoy it more because of the wait, though, so at least look at that aspect of it.

Good things come to those who wait eh ?

it's just annopying as last year i saw BB opening day same as everyone else and it made the participation more enjoyable

 

[skruloos]

That's my point,if all posters discussed it from an objective stand point then it may work but it never does, it always degenerates into a childish war between biased fan sets and i thought that while you presented your view well the last comment was a jab IMO

Except that it as not a job and I followed it up with a post explaining that it was not. I even said in my post that I liked Spider-man 2. It just happens that I appreciate a more grounded film. I never said that a emotionally grounded film is better than a more melodramatic one. I just stated my preference. I even acknowledge that such a taste is not for everyone!

I think the problem is that everyone is cynical when it comes to these boards. And for good reason. But it's sad that people read posts with the expectation of a flame and thus interpret lines as such even when such an interpretation runs contrary to the rest of the post.

 

[Tron5000]

Well, enough for for 1 (very long) day. 6am is where I draw the line.

Peace in the Middle East.



And Rain in Spain.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Except that it as not a job and I followed it up with a post explaining that it was not. I even said in my post that I liked Spider-man 2. It just happens that I appreciate a more grounded film. I never said that a emotionally grounded film is better than a more melodramatic one. I just stated my preference. I even acknowledge that such a taste is not for everyone!

I think the problem is that everyone is cynical when it comes to these boards. And for good reason. But it's sad that people read posts with the expectation of a flame and thus interpret lines as such even when such an interpretation runs contrary to the rest of the post.

Im don't see how Spidey's love story was not grounded in reality,the relationship felt like a very real one to me but anyway it may be sad but that's how these boards seem to operate,and i think we can both agree that the opening post left this thread only one realisitc conclusion

 

[SatEL]

I never said i was fed up of fanboy's,i am one,what im fed up of is these endless Marvel/DC flame wars and that's all this is,no one goes to a rival board and starts this type of thread without expecting it to end up in a flame war

This is were i agree with you and your right about the thread starter it was a cheap shot from him or perhaps he didnt think before posting but either way the results of this thread are here to see.

 

[Super78]

I can't watch Spidey 2 -- I like the first one very much.

Spider-Man 2 was just to melodramatic and often at times, boring.

I think Superman Returns was better, maybe not so much action, but better in terms of being far more intense.

 

[Jakomus]

The Spider-Man movies are the worst kind of adaption,the ones that present themselves as being faithful to the source but are definitely not.

Also it's painfully obvious they are just Sam Raimi fulfilling his dream of redirecting the Superman movies. They are pure Silver Age Supes stories, those movies.

 

[DACrowe]

I don't have a lot of time, so suffice to say that it does not top SM2. SM2 and BB are the superhero movies to be measured to (foolowed by X2), but it is still a damn good movie and well worth the wait too though.

 

[DACrowe]

Well Superman is Golden Age btw and I think Singer is more remaking '78 Supes than Raimi (and SM2 is based on several Spidey stories that include power loss and giving up the mantle DECADES before Superman II).

And yes SM2 has a lot of depth, well paced, acted, directed, clever, witty and produced film with heart and pacing to breathe. It is every bit as sharp as BB if not moreso (it is less reliant on action than Goyer is in the third act), but because it has a sense of humor and is light (as Stan Lee wrote) as well as serious, people forget this. I think the screenplay was intelligently written and a plus as opposed to the script of the first Spider-Man movie though.

 

[skruloos]

Im don't see how Spidey's love story was not grounded in reality,the relationship felt like a very real one to me but anyway it may be sad but that's how these boards seem to operate,and i think we can both agree that the opening post left this thread only one realisitc conclusion

Realistic? I didn't feel that the relationship between MJ and Peter was very romantic. I thought it was very stylized and melodramatic. I mean, every other second they are giving each other monologues and crying. It's a heightened sense of reality. But it fits in well with the context of the movie because everything else in the movie is heightened as well.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Realistic? I didn't feel that the relationship between MJ and Peter was very romantic. I thought it was very stylized and melodramatic. I mean, every other second they are giving each other monologues and crying. It's a heightened sense of reality. But it fits in well with the context of the movie because everything else in the movie is heightened as well.

The little scenes felt like real conversations that ppl have to me and the hospital scene was great as Peter used Spiderman as cover to tell MJ how he feels about her

 

[Sub-Zero]

spider-man2 was very dumb. it was something we had seen 2 years prior. they used the exact template from the original. the only good scene in the movie is when peter tells aunt may that he could've stopped uncle ben's killer. superman returns with flaws but it's still better than spider-man2. i agree with who ever said the relationship struggle was handled better in superman returns then in either spidey movies. it just wasn't believable that this popular girl would fall for this uber nerd next door. i know they get married in the comics, but its like she loved peter out of convenience. she barely noticed him, and then they make it look like they're friends in the first one. and then the second one makes her a complete flake.i rank it after batman begins and x2.

 

[Barry Allen]

It appears as if the "OP" (I refuse to call him by the name he chose because he very obviously, is not.), is a troll.

He creates a topic for no other reason than to blast the movie, and never posts again once his faulty critique is smashed.

 

[skruloos]

The little scenes felt like real conversations that ppl have to me and the hospital scene was great as Peter used Spiderman as cover to tell MJ how he feels about her

Really? In my personal experience and from my observations people watching for my writing, most real people aren't that vocal about their feelings. Sure, when they get really worked up maybe. But most of the time, matters of the heart usually show people holding their tongues and letting their emotions seether. People hardly are ever as definitive to outright just say "It's over. You missed your chance". Most try to avoid it if at all possible and try to say it without saying it.

A lot of movies, however, don't function like that. A lot of writers will outright say what the character is thinking instead of letting it occur through subtext. The Spider-man movies are like that. You don't use metaphors, anecdotes or allegories. You have Aunt May outright say that the world needs heroes. It's all played on the surface and in a very heightened way.

I must also restate that this is not a detraction on the Spider-man films or their writers. It's jut not my immediate preference for how to handle romantic stories. I much prefer understated romance over grand gestures and melodrama.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Really? In my personal experience and from my observations people watching for my writing, most real people aren't that vocal about their feelings. Sure, when they get really worked up maybe. But most of the time, matters of the heart usually show people holding their tongues and letting their emotions seether. People hardly are ever as definitive to outright just say "It's over. You missed your chance". Most try to avoid it if at all possible and try to say it without saying it.

A lot of movies, however, don't function like that. A lot of writers will outright say what the character is thinking instead of letting it occur through subtext. The Spider-man movies are like that. You don't use metaphors, anecdotes or allegories. You have Aunt May outright say that the world needs heroes. It's all played on the surface and in a very heightened way.

I must also restate that this is not a detraction on the Spider-man films or their writers. It's jut not my immediate preference for how to handle romantic stories. I much prefer understated romance over grand gestures and melodrama.

that's fair enough,i guess i prefer it the Spdiey way but for me scene's like the one in the hospital and the one where Peter is putting the bin out felt very real to me,maybe just how i am connects with that

 

[TheIntellectual]

I originally did not want a pissing contest, but I figured that is where the topic would go anyway.

I wrote what I wrote because I came out of superman returns frustrated.

In hindsight, I like a LOT of the film. The actions scenes were great, the father and sons theme was something new and tasteful to the mix, Lex luthor (although not the Businessman Lex that I know and love) was played excellently by Spacey, and individually Lois and Clark really pull off most of their scenes. Routh makes an EXCELLENT Clark kent.

But still... I think my negative reaction mainly comes from the limp final act. Spider-Man 2 always lives in a "heightened reality" but it jived with everything else in the film. Superman really switches to full out Bible Allusion mode in it's final act, grinding everything to a halt. It's misplaced, pointless, and takes a lot of juice out of the film.

I also wanted more insight into just WHAT Kal-El was thinking when he did certain things. He didn't act out of character or anything (quite the contrary), but I never felt like I got to know who he was and why he chooses to live his life the way he does.

That said, there are two scenes that absolutely rocked my world. I LOVED every second of the Smallville prelude. The scene where he watches the "news" is juuust subtle enough to be effectively moving on the inevitable guilt complex that comes with being a savior.

Finally, there's the great "Lex beats the holy hell out of him" scene. Amazing, amazing work by Spacey, Routh, and everyone involved.

I just wish that Superman Returns felt more like a complete picture, instead of a bunch of amazing scenes mingling with misplaced and oftentimes unnecessary moments.