Comics N' Toons
Viva La Revolucion!
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Isn't it pretty much definite that Nic Cage and Burton will not be at all associated with this project? I thought it was.
Schnepp said back in September I think that he was in talks with Cage, Burton and Smith but it was complicated becuase of their schedules.
Interesting update, trailer delayed, think maybe he's got Burton, Cage or maybe Peters:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1270411036/the-death-of-superman-lives-what-happened/posts
I know, I am wondering though how is it gonna be released?
Awesome.
Did he interview Cage?
So I finally read the whole of Wesley Strick's Superman Lives draft
Brainlex, Luthiac, whatever
Beaten via the power of love?
full of silly one liners
I actually think Dan Gilroy wrote a better draft and overall I prefer Smith's script, neither of those are perfect either but definitely better than Strick's at least in my opinion.
The Wesley Strick script isn't called "Superman Lives", just Superman. Tim Burton explained, "I was pushing for it to be called Superman. I always hated those titles like 'Batman Forever'. I have high problems with some of those titles."
As Jon Schnepp said, "Wesley Strick's script is the most important since that is the script Tim Burton was going to film."
Lexiac is the name. It's stated over and over in the script by Wesley Strick. AICN reported that Kevin Spacey would play both Brainiac and Luthor, in a dual role. (Brainiac as a robot -- Spacey could voice the character, while Spacey plays Luthor physically -- and the merging of Brainiac and Luthor unit as Lexiac, which is similar to the occurrence in Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Superman story in the comics.)
Lexiac's own psychic power backfires and destroys itself. When Superman see that Lois is still alive, that inspires him and strengthens his mind to overcome Lexiac's psychic brainwashing and the electrical storm that Lexiac's power was causing backfires because suddenly all of Lexiac's psychic energy has no effect on the mentally strengthened Superman and no were to go...Nowhere but back whence it came, a victorious rebound.
There are moments of humor, humorous dialogue. Superman was intended by creators Siegel and Shuster to have a sense of humor, and Luthor to have a sinister sense of humor, Siegel's Superman stories always had humor. Tim Burton has made a career out of mixing the bizarre, weird, creepy, grim, dark moments and monstrous characters with humor, moments of comic relief, upbeat, uplifting positive moments.
There's two Dan Gilroy scripts and two Kevin Smith scripts. I've gone over this before a year ago. Kevin Smith's has Jon Peters' input and a lot of Kevin Smith frat boy humor and cussing that's fine for Jay and Silent Bob and Clerks but out of character for the Superman characters. There's the January 31st, 1997 Kevin Smith script with Superman fighting Aquaman villain Black Manta and his Manta Ray submarine and Batman villain Deadshot. Deadshot yells, "WE CLAIM THE ISLAND OF CORTO MALTESE IN THE NAME OF THE LEGION OF DOOM!!!" (a Super Friends reference). Superman says about Krypton coldly, "There was a planet. It blew up. End of story." Lois mocks Superman and Clark Kent, "It's always, 'Gee, shucks Lois,' and all that Kansas boy scout babble" and Lois refers to Clark as "Dudley Do-Right" and says "I'm the kind of woman who likes a man in tights." Superman pulls glasses from his cape and puts them on and says he's Clark and Lois faints and then says "Must we go though this every night?" So she mocks Clark and fake faints every night already knowing the secret identity. When Superman asks her for dinner she says "Not Burger King again." Lois says to Superman "You're such a goof" for drinking orange juice. The Eradictor says to Superman, "*****, *****, *****." Etc.
There's the March 27th, 1997 script by Kevin Smith with Jon Peters' input of two polar bears outside of the Fortress of Solitude, gay robot L-Ron, Superman never seen flying, etc. Superman says to the Eradictor, "You've been in the Fortress all this time and I didn't know it?!? (thinks) Wait, wait, wait... did you ever see Lois and I... while we...(a sex reference) Well, why the hell did you never say anything?" L-Ron says, "Back to your tree, monkey man." and calls Lex Luthor "Baldy." Lex Luthor wears a t-shirt that say "I'M A MANIAC FOR BRAINIAC", Lex Luthor calls Superman "Stupid-Man." Jimmy Olsen says, "Holy ****." Etc.
Gilroy's scripts has Clark being hit by a car and not even realizing it, which I regard as a poor attempt at adding humor. Gilroy's scripts added Lois Lane's 10-year-old unnamed niece who was obviously added to make the film more kid-friendly. First Gilroy's script adding Brainiac hanging out at a swanky Metropolis nightclub called the Big Bang is ridiculous, obviously added in another attempt to lighten the film and make it more family friendly.
Also Gilroy's script lowers down the budget. In Strick's script Superman saves dozens of children from the Plutonian Gnaw Beast at the Luthorworld Amusement Park. I find that far more entertaining than the Gilroy scripts replacing that with Superman just saving children and Lois's niece in the elevators at Lexcorp on Lexcorp's Kids Day.
In the Strick script Lois is captured in the web of the Thanagarian Snare Beast and a dozen Baby Mutant Spiders slowly approach her to eat her until Superman can save her, the Gilroy scripts replaces that with tuxedoed Lexac having dinner on the Skull Ship with Lois and her niece with two goofy looking alien henchmen wearing tuxedos that don't fit them and Superman fights the Snare Beast, without Lois in any danger. Even K is toy size at the end of the Gilroy scripts and Superman hands K to Lois' niece and she says, "It's a toy." Warners obviously wanted Gilroy scripts to be much lighter, more kid-friendly than Strick's script and make it more toyetic.
In his book Burton on Burton, Tim Burton explained, "I was working for a year on script meetings with them, and once you go down that path the script doesn't get better, it becomes committee-ized." I see the result of that in the Dan Gilroy scripts.
The first Dan Gilroy draft that was dated January 24th, 1998 was also while Tim Burton was still signed on to direct the Superman film project, but Tim Burton didn't like that draft and called it committee-ized. Tim Burton had lost control of the scripting and was upset. By the time Dan Gilroy was finished with his September 20th, 1998 draft Tim Burton was off the Superman film project and onto directing the Sleepy Hollow film project instead. Tim Burton signed onto direct Sleepy Hollow in June 1998, regaining creative independence, away from Jon Peters and Warners year long script meetings and rewrites.
Regardless that makes no difference, the project is kniwn as Superman Lives. This really makes you come across abit of a smartass
That doesn't mean I have to like it.
It was still poorly done for me, I thought the Gilroy script I read did it better and of course Bruce Timm & co nailed the concept on JLU.
It really didn't read like that to me but then again I was fed up by that point so maybe wasn't taking it in.
Doesn't mean the script has well written humorous moments. Personally I felt the dialogue was atrocious and yeah you've said before that Burton liked his actors to ad lib etc but that doesn't mean it would have been fixed.
I'm suppose to remember something you said a year ago?
Yeah that's your opinion but it doesn't mean you or I are right just that we disagree. I think the Smith script I read is by far the best.
"Smart-ass"? I've been very civil and polite to you, generously shared information without sarcasm and rudeness, and haven't called you any names. To people who actually have a strong interest and care, like myself and Jon Schnepp, it's an interesting little known fact that Tim Burton didn't want the movie to be called "Superman Lives" and the script he intended to film isn't called "Superman Lives".
If you think the Superman script by Wesley Strick is poorly done and atrocious, that means that you probably wouldn't like the Superman documentary since Jon Schnepp's primarily focused on the Wesley Strick script that Tim Burton was going to film, including Wesley Strick interviewed, Tim Burton interviewed, storyboard recreations, the recreation scenes, animations.
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How exactly did the Gilroy scripts do it any better? The Dan Gilroy scripts are a restrained, watered-down-lower-budgeted and version of the Wesley Strick script.
In the Wesley Strick script Brainiac says, "If Superman merged with K, then we need to level the paying field!" With a free tentacle, Brainiac feels around the Skull Ship console, finds a button, hits it. Kryptonian Theremin music plays, as Brainiac's force field meets Luthor. As the energies mingle, there is a crackling in the air between them. Luthor's limbs and face stretch and swell toward Brainiac. Brainiac clenches his titanium jaw, pours on the cyber-power. Luthor's eyes roll up and his body loose dimensionality and Luthor is sucked into Brainiac, conjoined, two-headed, fused together in Luthor's flesh, like Satan's Siamese twins.
The January 24th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script says, Brainiac envelopes Lex in a display of art department and special effects, transmutatively consuming him to the accompaniment of electrical arcs as we cut to dawn. "Lexiac" stands atop the Lexcorp building in the sun. Note: Lexiac looks the same as Lex Luthor.
The September 20th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script says, Brainiac grabs Lex's robe, pulls it off - Lex is revealed to be wearing a red, white and blue thong decorated with the American flag. Brainiac says, "I need your body." Brainiac envelopes Lex in a display of art department and special effects, transmutatively consuming him to the accompaniment of electrical arcs as we cut to dawn. "Lexiac" stands atop the Lexcorp building in the sun. Note: Lexiac looks the same as Lex Luthor.
Justice League Unlimited had Brainiac possessing Lex Luthor within by Brainiac placing a nanotech copy of his program inside Luthor's body.
I was actually just quoting the script there pretty much word for word. This tells me that you weren't giving the Wesley Strick script much of an open minded chance, but rather seemed to have halfheartedly skimmed through it.
Well, here's a comparison of the defeat of Lexiac/Brainiac in the Wesley Strick script, both Dan Gilroy scripts and both Kevin Smith scripts...
In the Wesley Strick script Lexiac's own psychic power backfires and destroys itself. When Superman see that Lois is still alive, that inspires him and strengthens his mind to overcome Lexiac's psychic brainwashing and the electrical storm that Lexiac's power was causing backfires because suddenly all of Lexiac's psychic energy has no effect on the mentally strengthened Superman and no were to go...Nowhere but back whence it came, a victorious rebound.
In the January 24th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script Superman is battling Lexiac's power drain beam as Lois wills Superman on saying, "Your spirit is strong. I love you. I want to be with you forever." The power beam begins to change color from Superman's side becoming white and backfires back at Lexiac - crashing into the wall so hard that Brainiac is ejected from Lex's mouth. Brainiac's electronics dissolve from the short circuiting of the drain beam and Brainiac dissolves from the heat of the cross-wired energy.
In the January 24th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script Superman is battling Lexiac's power drain beam as Lois wills Superman on saying, "Fight, Superman. Don't give in." Lois jumps in front of the beam and collapses from the beam but doesn't die and quickly recovers, without any powers. Brainiac emerges from Lex's body. Superman throws Brainiac and Brainiac smashes into a hundred pieces. Brainiac's head shoots out a burst of energy into Superman's eyes as Brainiac enters Superman's body and tries to kill Superman from within. Lois wills Superman on saying, "He can't beat you, Superman. You have too much to live for. Your going to be a father." Superman wills Brainiac out of himself and back into Brainiac's head. Superman punches Brainiac's head into the wall, killing Brainiac.
In the January 31st, 1997 Kevin Smith script Superman takes Brainiac to the Earth's core and throws Brainiac into the magma, Brainiac says "Nooo!" and dies.
In the March 27th, 1997 Kevin Smith script Superman just punches his fist through Brainiac's chest and out of Brainiac's back. Brainiac then convulses, and dies.
"I want to show how negativity destroys creativity. This fear was born in the voice of the fans, who become overprotective of a character. If the internet exited back in 1988 as it does today, Batman never would have been made. The fan outcry about a comedian to play Batman, early photos would have been leaked online that looked weird. Producers second guess creativity over fan outrage. Fan outrage doesn't compute when they don't know what's going on and haven't seen the film." - Jon Schnepp.
The Superman humor in Wesley Strick script is classic Superman. When powerless Superman tricks Brainiac into thinking that he is going to be atomized to death by the sun-gun, it actually restores Superman's strength, and Superman remarks humorously, "That dose of yellow sun was what the doctor ordered."
While confronted with Brainiac's Beast Army, Superman throws one into another, which smashes into the one behind him, etc. Superman wisecracks to K, "We call that the domino effect."
You remembered something I said a year ago about Tim Burton liking actors who are good at improve
Most of that was me just reporting word for word facts from the scripts. How are Kevin Smith's scripts "by far" the best? Kevin Smith scripted Lois mocking Superman "It's always, 'Gee, shucks Lois,' and all that Kansas boy scout babble" and Lois refers to Clark as "Dudley Do-Right" and says "I'm the kind of woman who likes a man in tights." Superman pulls glasses from his cape and puts them on and says he's Clark and Lois faints and then says "Must we go though this every night?" So she mocks Clark and fake faints every night already knowing the secret identity. When Superman asks her for dinner she says "Not Burger King again." Lois says to Superman "You're such a goof" for drinking orange juice. Superman says about Krypton "There was a planet. It blew up. End of story." Lois says to Jimmy, "Would you shut up all ready." L-Ron says "B*tch, b*tch, b*tch." The Eradictor says to Superman "B*tch b*tch b*tch." Lex Luthor "I can't believe the b*tch tagged me." L-Ron says "Back to your tree, monkey man." and calls Lex Luthor "Baldy." Lex Luthor wears a t-shirt that say "I'M A MANIAC FOR BRAINIAC", Lex Luthor calls Superman "Stupid-Man." Superman says to the Eradictor "On our way, buddy. WOOOOOO-HOOOOOOOO!!" Superman says to the Eradicator, Youve been in the Fortress all this time and I didnt know it?!? Wait, wait, wait did you ever see Lois and I while we Well, why the hell did you never say anything?! Etc., etc. I don't consider that by far the best scripting.
I can't help noticing you calling Man of Steel the greatest comic book movie of all time. It's your personal favorite film apparently (and we are all entitled to our personal favorites), what I find interesting is what is apparently generally considered the greatest comic book movies of all time according to Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and IMDb ratings:
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And the top 30 financially successful comic book movies in their theatrical runs:
Marvel's The Avengers
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises
Iron Man 3
Spider-Man
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man 3
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Man of Steel
The Amazing Spider-Man
Batman (Tim Burton/Michael Keaton)
Men in Black
X-Men: The Last Stand
X2: X-Men United
300
Batman Begins
Thor: The Dark World
Superman Returns
Men in Black II
Batman Forever
Thor
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Men In Black 3
Captain America: The First Avenger
Batman Returns
X-Men
Fantastic Four
X-Men: First Class
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=comicbookadaptation.htm
Jon Schnepp considers Tim Burton's Superman movie a film that would have changed the world. "I think that this was the reboot that the character needed, and that ultimately, fear got in the way. Fear of trying something new, something that wasnt just more of the same. I followed the release of production art and design with great interest. It looked really out there, in a good and exciting way. If this film was made, it would have changed the way a lot of films were done in the future (now our past), and opened up a lot more creativity in the realms of filmmaking and approaching the ideas of adaptation. Just imagine how different superhero films, and genre films in general, would have been. The ripple effect is staggering! If (Tim Burton's) Superman came out in 1998 when it was supposed to -- (Bryan Singer's) X-Men didn't come out until 2000. How would that have affected X-Men? How would that have affected a lot of DC and Marvel movies? How would that have affected the further adventures of Batman? Michael Keaton was scheduled to make a reappearance as Bruce Wayne in Burton's Superman. Who knows what that could have spawned?" Schnepp said. "I think it would have changed the landscape for superhero films quite a bit. So much so that we wouldn't have had a Christopher Nolan Batman reboot. We would have probably had some other kind of Batman reboot. It might have been a Frank Miller reboot. Things that could have been, that didn't exist, that were almost ready to go and how I want to see that now and didn't get the chance. I want to tell the story of why this thing was created this way."
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