World Superman Lives!

[Comics N' Toons]

Isn't it pretty much definite that Nic Cage and Burton will not be at all associated with this project? I thought it was.

 

[BH/HHH]

I'm not sure, I was hoping seen as though they'd commented on it they would but tbh with what he has they probably wouldn't really add anything.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

Yeah. I guess that makes sense. Cage was at least interested in the project, so maybe he would have talked on there, but you are right, BH/HHH! This is really surpassing what any of us thought would happen.

 

[BH/HHH]

I might be more excited for this than any of the CBMs released this year t:

 

[bapi]

Schnepp said back in September I think that he was in talks with Cage, Burton and Smith but it was complicated becuase of their schedules.

 

[BH/HHH]

Schnepp said back in September I think that he was in talks with Cage, Burton and Smith but it was complicated becuase of their schedules.

Ahh interesting, tbh I think Smith's said all he has on the project but I'd love to hear what Burton & Cage had to say.

 

[BH/HHH]

Interesting update, trailer delayed, think maybe he's got Burton, Cage or maybe Peters:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1270411036/the-death-of-superman-lives-what-happened/posts

 

[titansupes]

Interesting update, trailer delayed, think maybe he's got Burton, Cage or maybe Peters:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1270411036/the-death-of-superman-lives-what-happened/posts

Now that's exciting!

 

[Matt.S99]

Bump! I need this documentary in my life!!

 

[BH/HHH]

I know, I am wondering though how is it gonna be released?

 

[Daryl]

I know, I am wondering though how is it gonna be released?

August 2014.

And...

New illustration by Sylvain Despretz

 

[BH/HHH]

Thanks but what I meant was how it will be released in terms of download etc

 

[BH/HHH]

So I finally read the whole of Wesley Strick's Superman Lives draft and I must say it was pretty poor.

Now don't get me wrong I quite enjoyed it up until Superman died, it had some dialogue issues but structurally it was fine. Unfortunately in the second half it goes to pot. I don't think Strick knew how to write dialogue for Lex (who they could have replaced with anyone to be fair as he's nothing but a pawn) bad especially Brainiac. Its chock full of silly one liners that didn't even have a place in the 90s. His Superman isn't too bad but even at times his dialogue had me cringing. The merging of Brainiac and Lex did not work at all and their exchanges were comically bad. Bruce Timm took the same idea for JLU and did it perfectly, this is just a mess. Also correct me if I'm wrong here but at the end does Superman beat Brainlex, Luthiac, whatever via the power of love? It really does get worse as it goes on and the ending is a huge rush job.

I actually think Dan Gilroy wrote a better draft and overall I prefer Smith's script, neither of those are perfect either but definitely better than Strick's at least in my opinion.

 

[bapi]

The Tim Burton interview confirmed!

 

[bapi]

Jon Schnepp had to travel to England and if you wanna donate few more bucks then you can do here.

 

[Black Narcissus]

The Tim Burton interview confirmed!

Awesome.

Did he interview Cage?

 

[theMan-Bat]

Awesome.

Did he interview Cage?

Nope. Not yet. But most of the top men to give insight about the Tim Burton Superman film project have been interviewed by Jon Schnepp. Initial screenwriter/creator of the basic Superman Lives plot structure Kevin Smith (interviewed in February), of course director Tim Burton (just interviewed in March), screenwriter Wesley Strick (interviewed in June 2013), Visual effects designer/costume designer Steve Johnson (interviewed in October 2013). The other main one left is, yeah, star Nic Cage.

For extra funds Jon Schnepp said, "I'm selling my entire comic collection, as well as toys and original art, all to raise finishing funds for 'The Death of Superman Lives: What Happened?'

Selling my entire comic book collection, comics from the 70s, 80s, 90s, right up to current series. Fantastic Four, Batman, Spider-Man, Avengers, Superman, Daredevil, X-Men, tons of independents, and lots of eclectic weirdo books! My personal comic book stash, that I've handpicked over the last 30 plus years, most of them for a buck a pop. I also have a bunch of toys (action figures like Justice League and Star Wars) and lots of my own original art to be bought. I'll also be doing art commisions, which I rarely do, so if you want a character drawn up in my own artistic flavor, now would be the time.

Why am I doing this??? Because I really am going to be making the extra scenes, animations, storyboard recreations, and more for my Feature Film Documentary that you all helped fund, 'The Death of Superman Lives: What Happened?'"

http://instagram.com/p/lfLkO1heOO/

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1270411036/the-death-of-superman-lives-what-happened/posts

So I finally read the whole of Wesley Strick's Superman Lives draft

The Wesley Strick script isn't called "Superman Lives", just Superman. Tim Burton explained, "I was pushing for it to be called Superman. I always hated those titles like 'Batman Forever'. I have high problems with some of those titles."

As Jon Schnepp said, "Wesley Strick's script is the most important since that is the script Tim Burton was going to film."

Brainlex, Luthiac, whatever

Lexiac is the name. It's stated over and over in the script by Wesley Strick. AICN reported that Kevin Spacey would play both Brainiac and Luthor, in a dual role. (Brainiac as a robot -- Spacey could voice the character, while Spacey plays Luthor physically -- and the merging of Brainiac and Luthor unit as Lexiac, which is similar to the occurrence in Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Superman story in the comics.)

Beaten via the power of love?

Lexiac's own psychic power backfires and destroys itself. When Superman see that Lois is still alive, that inspires him and strengthens his mind to overcome Lexiac's psychic brainwashing and the electrical storm that Lexiac's power was causing backfires because suddenly all of Lexiac's psychic energy has no effect on the mentally strengthened Superman and nowhere to go...Nowhere but back whence it came, a victorious rebound.

full of silly one liners

There are moments of humor, humorous dialogue. Superman was intended by creators Siegel and Shuster to have a sense of humor, and Luthor to have a sinister sense of humor, Siegel's Superman stories always had humor. Tim Burton has made a career out of mixing the bizarre, weird, creepy, grim, dark moments and monstrous characters with humor, moments of comic relief, upbeat, uplifting positive moments.

I actually think Dan Gilroy wrote a better draft and overall I prefer Smith's script, neither of those are perfect either but definitely better than Strick's at least in my opinion.

There's two Dan Gilroy scripts and two Kevin Smith scripts. I've gone over this before a year ago. Kevin Smith's has Jon Peters' input and a lot of Kevin Smith frat boy humor and cussing that's fine for Jay and Silent Bob and Clerks but out of character for the Superman characters. There's the January 31st, 1997 Kevin Smith script with Superman fighting Aquaman villain Black Manta and his Manta Ray submarine and Batman villain Deadshot. Deadshot yells, "WE CLAIM THE ISLAND OF CORTO MALTESE IN THE NAME OF THE LEGION OF DOOM!!!" (a Super Friends reference). Superman says about Krypton coldly, "There was a planet. It blew up. End of story." Lois mocks Superman and Clark Kent, "It's always, 'Gee, shucks Lois,' and all that Kansas boy scout babble" and Lois refers to Clark as "Dudley Do-Right" and says "I'm the kind of woman who likes a man in tights." Superman pulls glasses from his cape and puts them on and says he's Clark and Lois faints and then says "Must we go though this every night?" So she mocks Clark and fake faints every night already knowing the secret identity. When Superman asks her for dinner she says "Not Burger King again." Lois says to Superman "You're such a goof" for drinking orange juice. The Eradictor says to Superman, "*****, *****, *****." Etc.

There's the March 27th, 1997 script by Kevin Smith with Jon Peters' input of two polar bears outside of the Fortress of Solitude, gay robot L-Ron, Superman never seen flying, etc. Superman says to the Eradictor, "You've been in the Fortress all this time and I didn't know it?!? (thinks) Wait, wait, wait... did you ever see Lois and I... while we...(a sex reference) Well, why the hell did you never say anything?" L-Ron says, "Back to your tree, monkey man." and calls Lex Luthor "Baldy." Lex Luthor wears a t-shirt that say "I'M A MANIAC FOR BRAINIAC", Lex Luthor calls Superman "Stupid-Man." Jimmy Olsen says, "Holy ****." Etc.

Gilroy's scripts has Clark being hit by a car and not even realizing it, which I regard as a poor attempt at adding humor. Gilroy's scripts added Lois Lane's 10-year-old unnamed niece who was obviously added to make the film more kid-friendly. First Gilroy's script adding Brainiac hanging out at a swanky Metropolis nightclub called the Big Bang is ridiculous, obviously added in another attempt to lighten the film and make it more family friendly.

Also Gilroy's script lowers down the budget. In Strick's script Superman saves dozens of children from the Plutonian Gnaw Beast at the Luthorworld Amusement Park. I find that far more entertaining than the Gilroy scripts replacing that with Superman just saving children and Lois's niece in the elevators at Lexcorp on Lexcorp's Kids Day.

In the Strick script Lois is captured in the web of the Thanagarian Snare Beast and a dozen Baby Mutant Spiders slowly approach her to eat her until Superman can save her, the Gilroy scripts replaces that with tuxedoed Lexac having dinner on the Skull Ship with Lois and her niece with two goofy looking alien henchmen wearing tuxedos that don't fit them and Superman fights the Snare Beast, without Lois in any danger. Even K is toy size at the end of the Gilroy scripts and Superman hands K to Lois' niece and she says, "It's a toy." Warners obviously wanted Gilroy scripts to be much lighter, more kid-friendly than Strick's script and make it more toyetic.

In his book Burton on Burton, Tim Burton explained, "I was working for a year on script meetings with them, and once you go down that path the script doesn't get better, it becomes committee-ized." I see the result of that in the Dan Gilroy scripts.

The first Dan Gilroy draft that was dated January 24th, 1998 was also while Tim Burton was still signed on to direct the Superman film project, but Tim Burton didn't like that draft and called it committee-ized. Tim Burton had lost control of the scripting and was upset. By the time Dan Gilroy was finished with his September 20th, 1998 draft Tim Burton was off the Superman film project and onto directing the Sleepy Hollow film project instead. Tim Burton signed onto direct Sleepy Hollow in June 1998, regaining creative independence, away from Jon Peters and Warners year long script meetings and rewrites.

 

[BH/HHH]

The Wesley Strick script isn't called "Superman Lives", just Superman. Tim Burton explained, "I was pushing for it to be called Superman. I always hated those titles like 'Batman Forever'. I have high problems with some of those titles."

Regardless that makes no difference, the project is kniwn as Superman Lives. This really makes you come across abit of a smartass

As Jon Schnepp said, "Wesley Strick's script is the most important since that is the script Tim Burton was going to film."

That doesn't mean I have to like it.

Lexiac is the name. It's stated over and over in the script by Wesley Strick. AICN reported that Kevin Spacey would play both Brainiac and Luthor, in a dual role. (Brainiac as a robot -- Spacey could voice the character, while Spacey plays Luthor physically -- and the merging of Brainiac and Luthor unit as Lexiac, which is similar to the occurrence in Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Superman story in the comics.)

It was still poorly done for me, I thought the Gilroy script I read did it better and of course Bruce Timm & co nailed the concept on JLU.

Lexiac's own psychic power backfires and destroys itself. When Superman see that Lois is still alive, that inspires him and strengthens his mind to overcome Lexiac's psychic brainwashing and the electrical storm that Lexiac's power was causing backfires because suddenly all of Lexiac's psychic energy has no effect on the mentally strengthened Superman and no were to go...Nowhere but back whence it came, a victorious rebound.

It really didn't read like that to me but then again I was fed up by that point so maybe wasn't taking it in.

There are moments of humor, humorous dialogue. Superman was intended by creators Siegel and Shuster to have a sense of humor, and Luthor to have a sinister sense of humor, Siegel's Superman stories always had humor. Tim Burton has made a career out of mixing the bizarre, weird, creepy, grim, dark moments and monstrous characters with humor, moments of comic relief, upbeat, uplifting positive moments.

Doesn't mean the script has well written humorous moments. Personally I felt the dialogue was atrocious and yeah you've said before that Burton liked his actors to ad lib etc but that doesn't mean it would have been fixed.

There's two Dan Gilroy scripts and two Kevin Smith scripts. I've gone over this before a year ago. Kevin Smith's has Jon Peters' input and a lot of Kevin Smith frat boy humor and cussing that's fine for Jay and Silent Bob and Clerks but out of character for the Superman characters. There's the January 31st, 1997 Kevin Smith script with Superman fighting Aquaman villain Black Manta and his Manta Ray submarine and Batman villain Deadshot. Deadshot yells, "WE CLAIM THE ISLAND OF CORTO MALTESE IN THE NAME OF THE LEGION OF DOOM!!!" (a Super Friends reference). Superman says about Krypton coldly, "There was a planet. It blew up. End of story." Lois mocks Superman and Clark Kent, "It's always, 'Gee, shucks Lois,' and all that Kansas boy scout babble" and Lois refers to Clark as "Dudley Do-Right" and says "I'm the kind of woman who likes a man in tights." Superman pulls glasses from his cape and puts them on and says he's Clark and Lois faints and then says "Must we go though this every night?" So she mocks Clark and fake faints every night already knowing the secret identity. When Superman asks her for dinner she says "Not Burger King again." Lois says to Superman "You're such a goof" for drinking orange juice. The Eradictor says to Superman, "*****, *****, *****." Etc.

There's the March 27th, 1997 script by Kevin Smith with Jon Peters' input of two polar bears outside of the Fortress of Solitude, gay robot L-Ron, Superman never seen flying, etc. Superman says to the Eradictor, "You've been in the Fortress all this time and I didn't know it?!? (thinks) Wait, wait, wait... did you ever see Lois and I... while we...(a sex reference) Well, why the hell did you never say anything?" L-Ron says, "Back to your tree, monkey man." and calls Lex Luthor "Baldy." Lex Luthor wears a t-shirt that say "I'M A MANIAC FOR BRAINIAC", Lex Luthor calls Superman "Stupid-Man." Jimmy Olsen says, "Holy ****." Etc.

Gilroy's scripts has Clark being hit by a car and not even realizing it, which I regard as a poor attempt at adding humor. Gilroy's scripts added Lois Lane's 10-year-old unnamed niece who was obviously added to make the film more kid-friendly. First Gilroy's script adding Brainiac hanging out at a swanky Metropolis nightclub called the Big Bang is ridiculous, obviously added in another attempt to lighten the film and make it more family friendly.

Also Gilroy's script lowers down the budget. In Strick's script Superman saves dozens of children from the Plutonian Gnaw Beast at the Luthorworld Amusement Park. I find that far more entertaining than the Gilroy scripts replacing that with Superman just saving children and Lois's niece in the elevators at Lexcorp on Lexcorp's Kids Day.

In the Strick script Lois is captured in the web of the Thanagarian Snare Beast and a dozen Baby Mutant Spiders slowly approach her to eat her until Superman can save her, the Gilroy scripts replaces that with tuxedoed Lexac having dinner on the Skull Ship with Lois and her niece with two goofy looking alien henchmen wearing tuxedos that don't fit them and Superman fights the Snare Beast, without Lois in any danger. Even K is toy size at the end of the Gilroy scripts and Superman hands K to Lois' niece and she says, "It's a toy." Warners obviously wanted Gilroy scripts to be much lighter, more kid-friendly than Strick's script and make it more toyetic.

In his book Burton on Burton, Tim Burton explained, "I was working for a year on script meetings with them, and once you go down that path the script doesn't get better, it becomes committee-ized." I see the result of that in the Dan Gilroy scripts.

The first Dan Gilroy draft that was dated January 24th, 1998 was also while Tim Burton was still signed on to direct the Superman film project, but Tim Burton didn't like that draft and called it committee-ized. Tim Burton had lost control of the scripting and was upset. By the time Dan Gilroy was finished with his September 20th, 1998 draft Tim Burton was off the Superman film project and onto directing the Sleepy Hollow film project instead. Tim Burton signed onto direct Sleepy Hollow in June 1998, regaining creative independence, away from Jon Peters and Warners year long script meetings and rewrites.

I'm suppose to remember something you said a year ago?

Yeah that's your opinion but it doesn't mean you or I are right just that we disagree. I think the Smith script I read is by far the best.

 

[theMan-Bat]

Regardless that makes no difference, the project is kniwn as Superman Lives. This really makes you come across abit of a smartass

"Smart-ass"? I've been very civil and polite to you, generously shared information without sarcasm and rudeness, and haven't called you any names. To people who actually have a strong interest and care, like myself and Jon Schnepp, it's an interesting little known fact that Tim Burton didn't want the movie to be called "Superman Lives" and the script he intended to film isn't called "Superman Lives".

That doesn't mean I have to like it.

If you think the Superman script by Wesley Strick is poorly done and atrocious, that means that you probably wouldn't like the Superman documentary since Jon Schnepp's primarily focused on the Wesley Strick script that Tim Burton was going to film, including Wesley Strick interviewed, Tim Burton interviewed, storyboard recreations, the recreation scenes, animations.

It was still poorly done for me, I thought the Gilroy script I read did it better and of course Bruce Timm & co nailed the concept on JLU.

How exactly did the Gilroy scripts do it any better? The Dan Gilroy scripts are a restrained, watered-down-lower-budgeted version of the Wesley Strick script.

In the Wesley Strick script Brainiac says, "If Superman merged with K, then we need to level the paying field!" With a free tentacle, Brainiac feels around the Skull Ship console, finds a button, hits it. Kryptonian Theremin music plays, as Brainiac's force field meets Luthor. As the energies mingle, there is a crackling in the air between them. Luthor's limbs and face stretch and swell toward Brainiac. Brainiac clenches his titanium jaw, pours on the cyber-power. Luthor's eyes roll up and his body loose dimensionality and Luthor is sucked into Brainiac, conjoined, two-headed, fused together in Luthor's flesh, like Satan's Siamese twins.

The January 24th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script says, Brainiac envelopes Lex in a display of art department and special effects, transmutatively consuming him to the accompaniment of electrical arcs as we cut to dawn. "Lexiac" stands atop the Lexcorp building in the sun. Note: Lexiac looks the same as Lex Luthor.

The September 20th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script says, Brainiac grabs Lex's robe, pulls it off - Lex is revealed to be wearing a red, white and blue thong decorated with the American flag. Brainiac says, "I need your body." Brainiac envelopes Lex in a display of art department and special effects, transmutatively consuming him to the accompaniment of electrical arcs as we cut to dawn. "Lexiac" stands atop the Lexcorp building in the sun. Note: Lexiac looks the same as Lex Luthor.

Justice League Unlimited had Brainiac possessing Lex Luthor within by Brainiac placing a nanotech copy of his program inside Luthor's body.

It really didn't read like that to me but then again I was fed up by that point so maybe wasn't taking it in.

I was actually just quoting the script there pretty much word for word. This tells me that you weren't giving the Wesley Strick script much of an open minded chance, but rather seemed to have halfheartedly skimmed through it.

Spoiler

Well, here's a comparison of the defeat of Lexiac/Brainiac in the Wesley Strick script, both Dan Gilroy scripts and both Kevin Smith scripts...

In the Wesley Strick script Lexiac's own psychic power backfires and destroys itself. When Superman see that Lois is still alive, that inspires him and strengthens his mind to overcome Lexiac's psychic brainwashing and the electrical storm that Lexiac's power was causing backfires because suddenly all of Lexiac's psychic energy has no effect on the mentally strengthened Superman and no were to go...Nowhere but back whence it came, a victorious rebound.

In the January 24th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script Superman is battling Lexiac's power drain beam as Lois wills Superman on saying, "Your spirit is strong. I love you. I want to be with you forever." The power beam begins to change color from Superman's side becoming white and backfires back at Lexiac - crashing into the wall so hard that Brainiac is ejected from Lex's mouth. Brainiac's electronics dissolve from the short circuiting of the drain beam and Brainiac dissolves from the heat of the cross-wired energy.

In the January 24th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script Superman is battling Lexiac's power drain beam as Lois wills Superman on saying, "Fight, Superman. Don't give in." Lois jumps in front of the beam and collapses from the beam but doesn't die and quickly recovers, without any powers. Brainiac emerges from Lex's body. Superman throws Brainiac and Brainiac smashes into a hundred pieces. Brainiac's head shoots out a burst of energy into Superman's eyes as Brainiac enters Superman's body and tries to kill Superman from within. Lois wills Superman on saying, "He can't beat you, Superman. You have too much to live for. Your going to be a father." Superman wills Brainiac out of himself and back into Brainiac's head. Superman punches Brainiac's head into the wall, killing Brainiac.

In the January 31st, 1997 Kevin Smith script Superman takes Brainiac to the Earth's core and throws Brainiac into the magma, Brainiac says "Nooo!" and dies.

In the March 27th, 1997 Kevin Smith script Superman just punches his fist through Brainiac's chest and out of Brainiac's back. Brainiac then convulses, and dies.

Doesn't mean the script has well written humorous moments. Personally I felt the dialogue was atrocious and yeah you've said before that Burton liked his actors to ad lib etc but that doesn't mean it would have been fixed.

"I want to show how negativity destroys creativity. This fear was born in the voice of the fans, who become overprotective of a character. If the internet exited back in 1988 as it does today, Batman never would have been made. The fan outcry about a comedian to play Batman, early photos would have been leaked online that looked weird. Producers second guess creativity over fan outrage. Fan outrage doesn't compute when they don't know what's going on and haven't seen the film." - Jon Schnepp.

The Superman humor in Wesley Strick script is classic Superman. When powerless Superman tricks Brainiac into thinking that he is going to be atomized to death by the sun-gun, it actually restores Superman's strength, and Superman remarks humorously, "That dose of yellow sun was what the doctor ordered."

While confronted with Brainiac's Beast Army, Superman throws one into another, which smashes into the one behind him, etc. Superman wisecracks to K, "We call that the domino effect."

I'm suppose to remember something you said a year ago?

You remembered something I said a year ago about Tim Burton liking actors who are good at improve.

Yeah that's your opinion but it doesn't mean you or I are right just that we disagree. I think the Smith script I read is by far the best.

Most of that was me just reporting word for word facts from the scripts. How are Kevin Smith's scripts "by far" the best? Kevin Smith scripted Lois mocking Superman "It's always, 'Gee, shucks Lois,' and all that Kansas boy scout babble" and Lois refers to Clark as "Dudley Do-Right" and says "I'm the kind of woman who likes a man in tights." Superman pulls glasses from his cape and puts them on and says he's Clark and Lois faints and then says "Must we go though this every night?" So she mocks Clark and fake faints every night already knowing the secret identity. When Superman asks her for dinner she says "Not Burger King again." Lois says to Superman "You're such a goof" for drinking orange juice. Superman says about Krypton "There was a planet. It blew up. End of story." Lois says to Jimmy, "Would you shut up all ready." L-Ron says "B*tch, b*tch, b*tch." The Eradictor says to Superman "B*tch b*tch b*tch." Lex Luthor "I can't believe the b*tch tagged me." L-Ron says "Back to your tree, monkey man." and calls Lex Luthor "Baldy." Lex Luthor wears a t-shirt that say "I'M A MANIAC FOR BRAINIAC", Lex Luthor calls Superman "Stupid-Man." Superman says to the Eradictor "On our way, buddy. WOOOOOO-HOOOOOOOO!!" Superman says to the Eradicator, “You’ve been in the Fortress all this time and I didn’t know it?!? Wait, wait, wait… did you ever see Lois and I… while we… Well, why the hell did you never say anything?!” Etc., etc. I don't consider that by far the best scripting.

I can't help noticing you calling Man of Steel the greatest comic book movie of all time. It's your personal favorite film apparently (and we are all entitled to our personal favorites), what I find interesting is what is apparently generally considered the greatest comic book movies of all time according to Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and IMDb ratings:

And the top 30 financially successful comic book movies in their theatrical runs:
Marvel's The Avengers
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises
Iron Man 3
Spider-Man
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man 3
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Man of Steel
The Amazing Spider-Man
Batman (Tim Burton/Michael Keaton)
Men in Black
X-Men: The Last Stand
X2: X-Men United
300
Batman Begins
Thor: The Dark World
Superman Returns
Men in Black II
Batman Forever
Thor
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Men In Black 3
Captain America: The First Avenger
Batman Returns
X-Men
Fantastic Four
X-Men: First Class
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=comicbookadaptation.htm

Jon Schnepp considers Tim Burton's Superman movie a film that would have changed the world. "I think that this was the reboot that the character needed, and that ultimately, fear got in the way. Fear of trying something new, something that wasn’t just more of the same. I followed the release of production art and design with great interest. It looked really out there, in a good and exciting way. If this film was made, it would have changed the way a lot of films were done in the future (now our past), and opened up a lot more creativity in the realms of filmmaking and approaching the ideas of adaptation. Just imagine how different superhero films, and genre films in general, would have been. The ripple effect is staggering! If (Tim Burton's) Superman came out in 1998 when it was supposed to -- (Bryan Singer's) X-Men didn't come out until 2000. How would that have affected X-Men? How would that have affected a lot of DC and Marvel movies? How would that have affected the further adventures of Batman? Michael Keaton was scheduled to make a reappearance as Bruce Wayne in Burton's Superman. Who knows what that could have spawned?" Schnepp said. "I think it would have changed the landscape for superhero films quite a bit. So much so that we wouldn't have had a Christopher Nolan Batman reboot. We would have probably had some other kind of Batman reboot. It might have been a Frank Miller reboot. Things that could have been, that didn't exist, that were almost ready to go and how I want to see that now and didn't get the chance. I want to tell the story of why this thing was created this way."

 

[BH/HHH]

"Smart-ass"? I've been very civil and polite to you, generously shared information without sarcasm and rudeness, and haven't called you any names. To people who actually have a strong interest and care, like myself and Jon Schnepp, it's an interesting little known fact that Tim Burton didn't want the movie to be called "Superman Lives" and the script he intended to film isn't called "Superman Lives".

Yes you came across that way, its not even integral to the discussion.

If you think the Superman script by Wesley Strick is poorly done and atrocious, that means that you probably wouldn't like the Superman documentary since Jon Schnepp's primarily focused on the Wesley Strick script that Tim Burton was going to film, including Wesley Strick interviewed, Tim Burton interviewed, storyboard recreations, the recreation scenes, animations.

Making assumptions I see, how will I not enjoy it? I am very interested in this documentary as much as you are whether I liked a script or not is moot.

How exactly did the Gilroy scripts do it any better? The Dan Gilroy scripts are a restrained, watered-down-lower-budgeted and version of the Wesley Strick script.

In the Wesley Strick script Brainiac says, "If Superman merged with K, then we need to level the paying field!" With a free tentacle, Brainiac feels around the Skull Ship console, finds a button, hits it. Kryptonian Theremin music plays, as Brainiac's force field meets Luthor. As the energies mingle, there is a crackling in the air between them. Luthor's limbs and face stretch and swell toward Brainiac. Brainiac clenches his titanium jaw, pours on the cyber-power. Luthor's eyes roll up and his body loose dimensionality and Luthor is sucked into Brainiac, conjoined, two-headed, fused together in Luthor's flesh, like Satan's Siamese twins.

The January 24th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script says, Brainiac envelopes Lex in a display of art department and special effects, transmutatively consuming him to the accompaniment of electrical arcs as we cut to dawn. "Lexiac" stands atop the Lexcorp building in the sun. Note: Lexiac looks the same as Lex Luthor.

The September 20th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script says, Brainiac grabs Lex's robe, pulls it off - Lex is revealed to be wearing a red, white and blue thong decorated with the American flag. Brainiac says, "I need your body." Brainiac envelopes Lex in a display of art department and special effects, transmutatively consuming him to the accompaniment of electrical arcs as we cut to dawn. "Lexiac" stands atop the Lexcorp building in the sun. Note: Lexiac looks the same as Lex Luthor.

Justice League Unlimited had Brainiac possessing Lex Luthor within by Brainiac placing a nanotech copy of his program inside Luthor's body.

IN MY OPINION, it did do it better. They were two heads in a dome in the Script strick and the dialogue was purely atrocious.

I was actually just quoting the script there pretty much word for word. This tells me that you weren't giving the Wesley Strick script much of an open minded chance, but rather seemed to have halfheartedly skimmed through it.

Spoiler

Well, here's a comparison of the defeat of Lexiac/Brainiac in the Wesley Strick script, both Dan Gilroy scripts and both Kevin Smith scripts...

In the Wesley Strick script Lexiac's own psychic power backfires and destroys itself. When Superman see that Lois is still alive, that inspires him and strengthens his mind to overcome Lexiac's psychic brainwashing and the electrical storm that Lexiac's power was causing backfires because suddenly all of Lexiac's psychic energy has no effect on the mentally strengthened Superman and no were to go...Nowhere but back whence it came, a victorious rebound.

In the January 24th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script Superman is battling Lexiac's power drain beam as Lois wills Superman on saying, "Your spirit is strong. I love you. I want to be with you forever." The power beam begins to change color from Superman's side becoming white and backfires back at Lexiac - crashing into the wall so hard that Brainiac is ejected from Lex's mouth. Brainiac's electronics dissolve from the short circuiting of the drain beam and Brainiac dissolves from the heat of the cross-wired energy.

In the January 24th, 1998 Dan Gilroy script Superman is battling Lexiac's power drain beam as Lois wills Superman on saying, "Fight, Superman. Don't give in." Lois jumps in front of the beam and collapses from the beam but doesn't die and quickly recovers, without any powers. Brainiac emerges from Lex's body. Superman throws Brainiac and Brainiac smashes into a hundred pieces. Brainiac's head shoots out a burst of energy into Superman's eyes as Brainiac enters Superman's body and tries to kill Superman from within. Lois wills Superman on saying, "He can't beat you, Superman. You have too much to live for. Your going to be a father." Superman wills Brainiac out of himself and back into Brainiac's head. Superman punches Brainiac's head into the wall, killing Brainiac.

In the January 31st, 1997 Kevin Smith script Superman takes Brainiac to the Earth's core and throws Brainiac into the magma, Brainiac says "Nooo!" and dies.

In the March 27th, 1997 Kevin Smith script Superman just punches his fist through Brainiac's chest and out of Brainiac's back. Brainiac then convulses, and dies.

"I want to show how negativity destroys creativity. This fear was born in the voice of the fans, who become overprotective of a character. If the internet exited back in 1988 as it does today, Batman never would have been made. The fan outcry about a comedian to play Batman, early photos would have been leaked online that looked weird. Producers second guess creativity over fan outrage. Fan outrage doesn't compute when they don't know what's going on and haven't seen the film." - Jon Schnepp.

There you go making assumptions again, I read the thing all the way through and for me after Superman died it was unbearable.

The Superman humor in Wesley Strick script is classic Superman. When powerless Superman tricks Brainiac into thinking that he is going to be atomized to death by the sun-gun, it actually restores Superman's strength, and Superman remarks humorously, "That dose of yellow sun was what the doctor ordered."

While confronted with Brainiac's Beast Army, Superman throws one into another, which smashes into the one behind him, etc. Superman wisecracks to K, "We call that the domino effect."

You remembered something I said a year ago about Tim Burton liking actors who are good at improve

Classic Superman in your opinion maybe but not mine. The dialogue was terrible.

Most of that was me just reporting word for word facts from the scripts. How are Kevin Smith's scripts "by far" the best? Kevin Smith scripted Lois mocking Superman "It's always, 'Gee, shucks Lois,' and all that Kansas boy scout babble" and Lois refers to Clark as "Dudley Do-Right" and says "I'm the kind of woman who likes a man in tights." Superman pulls glasses from his cape and puts them on and says he's Clark and Lois faints and then says "Must we go though this every night?" So she mocks Clark and fake faints every night already knowing the secret identity. When Superman asks her for dinner she says "Not Burger King again." Lois says to Superman "You're such a goof" for drinking orange juice. Superman says about Krypton "There was a planet. It blew up. End of story." Lois says to Jimmy, "Would you shut up all ready." L-Ron says "B*tch, b*tch, b*tch." The Eradictor says to Superman "B*tch b*tch b*tch." Lex Luthor "I can't believe the b*tch tagged me." L-Ron says "Back to your tree, monkey man." and calls Lex Luthor "Baldy." Lex Luthor wears a t-shirt that say "I'M A MANIAC FOR BRAINIAC", Lex Luthor calls Superman "Stupid-Man." Superman says to the Eradictor "On our way, buddy. WOOOOOO-HOOOOOOOO!!" Superman says to the Eradicator, “You’ve been in the Fortress all this time and I didn’t know it?!? Wait, wait, wait… did you ever see Lois and I… while we… Well, why the hell did you never say anything?!” Etc., etc. I don't consider that by far the best scripting.

Again its called an opinion you should respect others more often.

I can't help noticing you calling Man of Steel the greatest comic book movie of all time. It's your personal favorite film apparently (and we are all entitled to our personal favorites), what I find interesting is what is apparently generally considered the greatest comic book movies of all time according to Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic and IMDb ratings:

And the top 30 financially successful comic book movies in their theatrical runs:
Marvel's The Avengers
The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight Rises
Iron Man 3
Spider-Man
Spider-Man 2
Spider-Man 3
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Man of Steel
The Amazing Spider-Man
Batman (Tim Burton/Michael Keaton)
Men in Black
X-Men: The Last Stand
X2: X-Men United
300
Batman Begins
Thor: The Dark World
Superman Returns
Men in Black II
Batman Forever
Thor
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Men In Black 3
Captain America: The First Avenger
Batman Returns
X-Men
Fantastic Four
X-Men: First Class
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=comicbookadaptation.htm

Jon Schnepp considers Tim Burton's Superman movie a film that would have changed the world. "I think that this was the reboot that the character needed, and that ultimately, fear got in the way. Fear of trying something new, something that wasn’t just more of the same. I followed the release of production art and design with great interest. It looked really out there, in a good and exciting way. If this film was made, it would have changed the way a lot of films were done in the future (now our past), and opened up a lot more creativity in the realms of filmmaking and approaching the ideas of adaptation. Just imagine how different superhero films, and genre films in general, would have been. The ripple effect is staggering! If (Tim Burton's) Superman came out in 1998 when it was supposed to -- (Bryan Singer's) X-Men didn't come out until 2000. How would that have affected X-Men? How would that have affected a lot of DC and Marvel movies? How would that have affected the further adventures of Batman? Michael Keaton was scheduled to make a reappearance as Bruce Wayne in Burton's Superman. Who knows what that could have spawned?" Schnepp said. "I think it would have changed the landscape for superhero films quite a bit. So much so that we wouldn't have had a Christopher Nolan Batman reboot. We would have probably had some other kind of Batman reboot. It might have been a Frank Miller reboot. Things that could have been, that didn't exist, that were almost ready to go and how I want to see that now and didn't get the chance. I want to tell the story of why this thing was created this way."

Critical reviews and box office have no bearing on what's my opinion. Man of Steel is my favourite CBM ever and that's my right.

You really need to start respecting others opinions more and stop obsessing when someone disagrees with you. You aren't gonna convince me either way. Your words are not gonna suddenly make me fall in love with something I didn't like.

 

[theMan-Bat]

I'm sure everyone reading this thread knows your opinion. At this point you are continuously bashing a script, telling me that what I enjoy is "purely atrocious", "terrible", "unbearable", and calling me a "smart-ass." You should take your own advice about respect. Disrespectful rude name calling "smart-ass", bashing, and acting like opinions and inaccuracies are facts is not respectable behavior. I presented the facts of what is actually in the scripts. I'm not trying to say everyone has to agree with me. To each his own. It's good to have a civil discussion so we can understand each other, share our opinions and help keep each other informed. That's what these boards are for. In this case you'd already made your opinion clear a year ago. bashing something with "purely atrocious", "terrible", "unbearable", is not giving constructive criticism and calling "smart-ass" is not the means for civil discussions, rather, it looks like you are trying to bait me into a flame war. I've defended something that I feel is worth defending, like Jon Schnepp is doing with the documentary. I dislike a lot of things in the Dan Gilroy and Kevin Smith scripts, but I still wouldn't stoop to calling those scripts "purely atrocious", "terrible", "unbearable", just because it is not to my liking. Calling "purely atrocious", "terrible", "unbearable" to a known fan of the material you are bashing is not polite discussion, but rather the apparent attempt at provoking an angry response from them. Criticism is one thing, and I am sure everyone is well aware of your opinion of Wesley Strick's script by now. Repeatedly posting hostile comments is another. As you must already know, I disagree with your opinion. No amount of negative comments is going to change that, yet you have continued posting such comments to me with the apparent goal of provoking an angry response out of me. I've posted with the goal of trying to inform and open minds.

 

[BH/HHH]

Must have hit a nerve. If you're offended by the word smart ass then you clearly need to chill out.

You're the one whose making something out of nothing the point is I didn't like the scrip you love it so you feel some obsessive need to prove me wrong when infact no one is wrong. Its about personal preference. I think the scripts garbage you don't. Let's just leave it at that.

Bloody hell your a sensitive sod when you don't get your own way. I don't get how I've contiously pushed you when you're the one who responded to me and jams it down my throat that I can't think its not amazing etc. Get over it!

 

[theMan-Bat]

And now another insulting post from BH/HHH calling me a "sod". There are rules against insults on the boards. Polite disagreements are fine with me, I was just trying to clear up misunderstands such as you wondering if Lexiac was "Beaten via the power of love?" and have a polite discussion and script comparisons. The hostile bashing and name calling is totally uncalled for.

 

[Super Kal]

there's always the "report post" option...

 

[theMan-Bat]

Yeah, I have reported.