SUPERMAN PRIME (holding nothing back) vs GOKU (with full access to the Dragon Balls)

[SSJ4_Mikael]

What are you talking about?At every ssj transformation the are 50 times stronger then the first ssj transformation.Why is it 50 times?Because when Cell fought fpssj Goku,he was not going all out,but when he is at full power he is about 5 times stronger then fpssj Goku (Cell wanted to be equal with Goku so he could have a good fight) and ssj2 Gohan was at least 10 times stronger then Cell because when he was playing with Cell he was not useing his full power,he probably wasn't even at 50% of his power.

Now why was ssj2 Gohan 10 times stronger, because when Raditz camed and fought Goku and Picolo he was 3 or 4 times stronger but he could be hurt by their punches and attacks but ssj2 Gohan was not even hurt a bit after Full Power Perfect Cell punched him with all his strengh and ssj2 Gohan was probably not even using 50% of his power.

And that 40 ton feat is SvsFL because if it were not then Vegeta from the Cell saga would be stronger then Goku from the Buu saga, and so would Gohan because normal Gohan lifted a 747 and a bus with one hand and that bus was more then 20 tons.And it's SvsFL because there is noway that ssj2 Goku could have destroyed mountain/mountain ranges with just the shockwave of his punches if he could only lift 70.000-90.000 tons.

And don't say that Full power Perfect Cell was only 1 times stronger because that is false,Cell just wanted to be equal with him so he didn't went full power.And there was a gravity of 10 times that of earth so Goku could not lift 400 tons.

1) Gokou went from 1,000 kiri's to 3,000 kiri's against Yakon after going SSJ. So no not every SSJ level 50 fold the users power.

2) Gohan lifting a bus = filler.
South kaio-sama changed the gravity on the planet for Gokou so it would be 40 earth ton's.
Gokou destroying a mountain = filler.
However he was stronger than Burori who could destroy a galaxy, so a montain, on't make me laugh. (Burori is also filler, Gokou shoulden't be able to destroy more than a solar system)

3)

 

[SSJ4_Mikael]

I think there is no way Goku can win. It comes down to whether Goku has cosmic powers or not. Prime does. Therefore, if Goku does not have them, he's getting himself unexisted. If he does, neither can win. It doesn't matter how strong Goku is. Altering reality can override any amount of strength.

It's either Supes or a stalemate.

Well, actually it is...
If you count in the filler (anime). SSJ4 Gokou should be able to destroy the universe. So even Thanatos ifw HotU (Thano's controlling all matter in the universe)
would be chansless since Gokou can destroy it if nessecery.
Or, better to put them equal since Thanos can do the same.

 

[Leto Atrides]

If he can then, then I'm guessing they would completely destroy everything, including themselves. So no one wins. Rather depressing.

 

[SSJ4_Mikael]

If he can then, then I'm guessing they would completely destroy everything, including themselves. So no one wins. Rather depressing.

True, but the thing is, Thanatos survived even after destroying everything, which puts him a step ahead.
But the anime make's no sence.
If you go by the original work, then DB's power ain't so far from thoese in Naruto. If you are excluding the power to destroy planets and so on.

 

[chuy]

in db yea
but in z and gt their some much better then narturo
it isn't even funny

 

[buutenks]

1) Gokou went from 1,000 kiri's to 3,000 kiri's against Yakon after going SSJ. So no not every SSJ level 50 fold the users power.

2) Gohan lifting a bus = filler.
South kaio-sama changed the gravity on the planet for Gokou so it would be 40 earth ton's.
Gokou destroying a mountain = filler.
However he was stronger than Burori who could destroy a galaxy, so a montain, on't make me laugh. (Burori is also filler, Gokou shoulden't be able to destroy more than a solar system)

3)

1.Where did it say that he went from 1000 to 3000?Don't say that he is only 3 times stronger because those power levels are not the same as the oder power levels.And it can't be 3 times because if it was then Full power Perfect Cell would only be 2 times stronger then normal Goku from the Cell saga and Imperfect Cell stage 2 would only be 0.5 times stronger then normal Goku from the Cell saga and ussj Vegeta would only be 1 times stronger then normal Goku from the Cell saga and fpssj Goku would only be 1.5 times stronger then himself.I said 2 times because normal Goku from the Buu saga was stronger then normal Goku from the Cell saga so his ssj transformation was stronger then Perfect Cell.So you see why it can't be 3 times for the ssj transformation it would be to weak then,kaioken10 would be better then,so it must be 50 times.

2.Gohan still lifted a boeing 747 with one hand so that puts him over 100 tons.
He didn't say nothing about making the gravity like the earths gravity.So it was 400 tons.And Brolly is non-canon,you can't use him.And if it was 40 tons then it means that normal Vegeta and Gohan are stronger then normal Goku and it means that Goku got weaker in the Buu saga,well thats what happens when you get older you get weaker.So if it was 40 tons(which it wasn't )then we could use Goku from the Freza saga when we put him against Superman because he lifted a mountain in the Frieza saga so he is stronger then ssj3 Goku.Or was that mountain lifting feat a filler?If it was then he is only stronger then normal Goku from the Buu saga(which he is not because it was not 40 tons it was 400 tons,but I am just saying that he is stronger if we go by what you said).And if it was 40 tons(which it wasn't)and at every ssj transformation they are 3 times stronger(which is not) then why could they destroy mountain ranges just by the shockwave of their punches?Because it wasn't 40 tons it was 400 and at every ssj transformation they are 50 times stronger then the first.

 

[Red]

maxed out with full access to the Dragon Balls

Couldn't he just wish Superman was powerless?

 

[buutenks]

Couldn't he just wish Superman was powerless?

Nope.

 

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Then he's dead meat...

 

[ster]

Goku wins

 

[buutenks]

Goku wins

Goku does not have the feats to beat Pre-crisis Superman let alone Superman prime.

 

[ster]

I said Goku wins

 

[buutenks]

I said Goku wins

What ever.

 

[buutenks]

1.Where did it say that he went from 1000 to 3000?Don't say that he is only 3 times stronger because those power levels are not the same as the oder power levels.And it can't be 3 times because if it was then Full power Perfect Cell would only be 2 times stronger then normal Goku from the Cell saga and Imperfect Cell stage 2 would only be 0.5 times stronger then normal Goku from the Cell saga and ussj Vegeta would only be 1 times stronger then normal Goku from the Cell saga and fpssj Goku would only be 1.5 times stronger then himself.I said 2 times because normal Goku from the Buu saga was stronger then normal Goku from the Cell saga so his ssj transformation was stronger then Perfect Cell.So you see why it can't be 3 times for the ssj transformation it would be to weak then,kaioken10 would be better then,so it must be 50 times.

2.Gohan still lifted a boeing 747 with one hand so that puts him over 100 tons.
He didn't say nothing about making the gravity like the earths gravity.So it was 400 tons.And Brolly is non-canon,you can't use him.And if it was 40 tons then it means that normal Vegeta and Gohan are stronger then normal Goku and it means that Goku got weaker in the Buu saga,well thats what happens when you get older you get weaker.So if it was 40 tons(which it wasn't )then we could use Goku from the Freza saga when we put him against Superman because he lifted a mountain in the Frieza saga so he is stronger then ssj3 Goku.Or was that mountain lifting feat a filler?If it was then he is only stronger then normal Goku from the Buu saga(which he is not because it was not 40 tons it was 400 tons,but I am just saying that he is stronger if we go by what you said).And if it was 40 tons(which it wasn't)and at every ssj transformation they are 3 times stronger(which is not) then why could they destroy mountain ranges just by the shockwave of their punches?Because it wasn't 40 tons it was 400 and at every ssj transformation they are 50 times stronger then the first.

Well ssj4 Mikael still thinking that it's 3 times?

 

[ster]

What ever.

what are you all in a heap over?

 

[saiyan jedi]

Nope.

yes he can

 

[SSJ4_Mikael]

Well ssj4 Mikael still thinking that it's 3 times?

stupid n00b, the raise is based on your base power...
It's allways different, in Furiza saga it were 50x.
In Babidi saga it was 3.

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume38/Db38ch06/380603.gif

Gokou was slight stronger than Yakon in his base.
Gokou > Yakon = 800 kiri's
So yeah, Gokou is about 1,000 kiri.
And SSJ is 3,000
That make's it 3 time's.

And Gohan turning SSJ2 at the tournament incresses his power by 9x-12x

 

[buutenks]

stupid n00b, the raise is based on your base power...
It's allways different, in Furiza saga it were 50x.
In Babidi saga it was 3.

http://www.nfsupreme.com/hostees/dranet/mangas/showimg.php?file=/Dragon%20Ball%20%26%20DBZ%20Manga/volume38/Db38ch06/380603.gif

Gokou was slight stronger than Yakon in his base.
Gokou > Yakon = 800 kiri's
So yeah, Gokou is about 1,000 kiri.
And SSJ is 3,000
That make's it 3 time's.

And Gohan turning SSJ2 at the tournament incresses his power by 9x-12x

You are wrong base Goku was not stronger then Yakon when he transformed in ssj he was stronger then Yakon ,it never said nothing about his base being stronger then Yakon, Babbidi knew that Yakon could beat Goku because Babbidi did not knew about the ssj forms and Babbidi was sure that Yakon could beat base Goku but when he transformed he had 3000 kilis and was stronger then Yakon so normal Goku would have had 70-100 kilis,and don't say that he needed to transform because it was dark,he did need to transform because it was dark but he needed to transform because he was not strong enough to beat Yakon in his base.

And there is noway that ssj2 Goku could destroy mountain/mountain ranges just by the shockwave of his punches if he could only lift 10.000-15.000 tons.

 

[SSJ4_Mikael]

You are wrong base Goku was not stronger then Yakon when he transformed in ssj he was stronger then Yakon ,it never said nothing about his base being stronger then Yakon, Babbidi knew that Yakon could beat Goku because Babbidi did not knew about the ssj forms and Babbidi was sure that Yakon could beat base Goku but when he transformed he had 3000 kilis and was stronger then Yakon so normal Goku would have had 70-100 kilis,and don't say that he needed to transform because it was dark,he did need to transform because it was dark but he needed to transform because he was not strong enough to beat Yakon in his base.

And there is noway that ssj2 Goku could destroy mountain/mountain ranges just by the shockwave of his punches if he could only lift 10.000-15.000 tons.

If you were paying attention you would notice that before Gokou turned SSJ (when he was at planet "darkness") he kicked Yakun's ass all over the plance, Yakun coulden't even touch him...
So Base Gokou is slight stronger than Yakun

 

[buutenks]

If you were paying attention you would notice that before Gokou turned SSJ (when he was at planet "darkness") he kicked Yakun's ass all over the plance, Yakun coulden't even touch him...
So Base Gokou is slight stronger than Yakun

I forgot about that port,but still ssj3 Goku is light speed.Don't say that he isn't because Perfect Cell went from earth to a astroid,which was far from earth.

 

[buutenks]

If you were paying attention you would notice that before Gokou turned SSJ (when he was at planet "darkness") he kicked Yakun's ass all over the plance, Yakun coulden't even touch him...
So Base Gokou is slight stronger than Yakun

I forgot about that part,but still ssj3 Goku is light speed.Don't say that he isn't because Perfect Cell went from earth to a astroid in a couple of seconds,which was far from earth.

 

[SSJ4_Mikael]

I forgot about that part,but still ssj3 Goku is light speed.Don't say that he isn't because Perfect Cell went from earth to a astroid in a couple of seconds,which was far from earth.

Raditzu was faster than light in the anime...
Anime character's can do pretty much anything.
I even think that the strongest (XiShenlon and SSJ4 Gojita) would be able to overpower the Heart of the Universe, since they both probobly have the power to destroy Time and Space.
Time and Space >> Dimention >> Universe >> Galaxy >> Solar system > Planet

 

[buutenks]

And Gohan turning SSJ2 at the tournament incresses his power by 9x-12x

I think it's more like 15-20 times stronger.

 

[SSJ4_Mikael]

I think it's more like 15-20 times stronger.

Ehh, I wasn't guessing.
If you look at Spopavish kiri-scale you see that the difference is about from 1,5 to 16 something.

 

[buutenks]

If I remember one of the Kais said that he could sense their ships but could not sense Goku or Gotenks moving which would mean that they are FTL because their ships are moving faster then the speed of light is the statement true or it has never been stated?Gokus ship got to Namek in six days and Namek is in a nother galaxy so that is far faster then light speed so was that stastement said?Because I want to know if the statement was said because I don't have the manga so If some one knows can he tell me if that statement was said?