Superman Returns Superman Returns is in continuity with the Donner Cut of Superman II! (Spoilers)

[dark_b]

SR is not a direct sequel. when will people understand this?

 

[charl_huntress]

Why? He always said it was in "Vague history" with the Superman II (Lester) that we knew about before.

Donner's cut finally gives us the actual direct history leading into SR.

Singer wasnt misleading anyone in his initial statements and the good news is that we got the additional bonus of seeing the direct history that ties into SR's backstory easily.

Why is he a hack? Let's see, perhaps because he couldn't come up with anything original and is so lacking in talent he had to use a vague storyline from an unreleased director's cut the public had never seen before. He also is a hack because he can't get off his knees to Donner.

I'm sorry, but the vague history should have been the Lester cut...NOT the Donner cut. I was and still am all for creating an arc from the story points left off int STM and SII, but to tie the story to Donner's cut is just plain stupid.

Actually, I don't see any good news in any of this, and if you do than great for you! However, Singer is a hack! To add to that burden, I'm positive the man does not get Superman because I do not believe the Superman shown in the "vague history" Singer is so fond of promoting would sleep with Lois without telling her is Clark too. Again, this harkens back to Singer just not understanding Superman, so I'm prepared for a sequel that will follow along the dismal, depressing tone he set in SR.

God help us all...

 

[Road Warrior]

I didn't feel like reading all of this. So, I apologize if I'm repeating something someone has already said.

Personally...I enjoyed Superman Returns. Was it a great movie? No. But, it was fun though. With that being said, I guess, Singer screwed up with the whole kid thing. I see where he is coming from with his idea, but he screwed up. Both versions of Superman II do not easily allow for it to be connected to Superman Returns. I don't know. Maybe it's just bad writing from Doughtery and Harris.

 

[charl_huntress]

On an additional note, this cut really helps explain Lois' overly cold reception towards Superman in SR, as well as how we thought she was too mean to Clark. If Kal wants Supes/Clark to be two distinct people, and not get too involved with Lois as Clark, then the distance b/t them makes sense.

For Lois, she has to be pissed -- think about it. Knowing you must have been screwed by Supes but having no recollection about it. She knows that's his kid, so she has to be thinking he date-raped her ...

Oh geez ... having typed that out, while this starts to make more sense, it also completely paints Supes as someone FAR from the moral ideal ... which really bothers me since that's what he's supposed to be ... Whatever happened to the "I never lie; truth, justice, and the American Way" motto ...?

I feel like the Donner cut helps give sense to the relationships in SR ... but I don't think it's made me like it any more.

Agreed on mostly every point. Following the Donner cut may explain Supes in actions in SR better, but it still presents a lot of issues that for me speak loud and clear on Singer's abilities. At this point, I just hope the actual sequel is better than the requel.

 

[GarudA]

One would think that Superman would of learnt a lesson known what had happend when he had given up his powers and after his lecture that his father had given him about "abandoning the weak and the helpless for selfish needs" and Superman saying I should of have listen to him.

 

[charl_huntress]

One would think that Superman would of learnt a lesson known what had happend when he had given up his powers and after his lecture that his father had given him about "abandoning the weak and the helpless for selfish needs" and Superman saying I should of have listen to him.

I'm sure that got turned around during the time continuum too, or it's a part of the vague history Singer decided to leave out.

 

[The Kid]

SR is not a direct sequel. when will people understand this?

It's like Superman IV.

 

[charl_huntress]

SR is not a direct sequel. when will people understand this?

I can buy this, which is why I keep going on with it being not a particularly good movie...regardless of rather it's a requel, sequel or something elset:

 

[X Knight]

besides.....the whole spinning time back thing is rather silly. That's really the one part I didn't like about the Donner movies. It's too convenient of a "power" to be able to erase any bad stuff that happened.

Instead of having Supes ( and Lois ) deal with the aftermath and consequence of an event, Supes can just reverse everything and make it "back to normal."

I mean, that would be like Batman reversing time everytime the Joker goes on a killing spree, or Spiderman reversing time so that his Uncle Ben doesn't die. By undoing the events, you take away the possibility of the character learning and growing from those events.

It's also slightly wierd in that it seems Supes remembers everything while everyone else forgets. So, Supes remembers sleeping with Lois, but she doesn't.......creepy!

oh, and in SR, when Clark comes back to the farm, didn't his mom say something like, "You can't stop the world from spinning?" I thought that was supposed to be an homage to what happened in S1? Sort of like a joking reference....

 

[Binker]

Superman Returns is in its own continuity, not conencted to Superman The Movie nor Superman II (Lester's nor Donner's).

Period.

 

[Matt]

If he turned back time then he would've never impregnated Lois

 

[The Caped Knight]

If he turned back time then he would've never impregnated Lois

The events still happend [Expect know one but Sups knows] Lois doesn't remember, but she still feels like something big happend .

 

[GarudA]

The events still happend [Expect know one but Sups knows] Lois doesn't remember, but she still feels like something big happend .

If he turned back time and un-did everything that had happend, that would also included sleeping with lois. All the events including sleeping with lois, never took place.

 

[SolidSnakeMGS]

Superman Returns is in its own continuity, not conencted to Superman The Movie nor Superman II (Lester's nor Donner's).

Period.

Where have you been?

YES IT IS. Let's see...Lex being imprisoned, the Adis Ababa meteor, Marlon Brando as Jor-El, John Williams's theme, Jonathan Kent beind dead, Ben Hubbard, etc, etc, ETC.

Seriously, were you joking??

 

[Substance D]

So what, in the Donner movies, Superman just turns back time everytime he can't fix something? Lame.

 

[Brainiac 2009]

Why is he a hack? Let's see, perhaps because he couldn't come up with anything original and is so lacking in talent he had to use a vague storyline from an unreleased director's cut the public had never seen before. He also is a hack because he can't get off his knees to Donner.

I'm sorry, but the vague history should have been the Lester cut...NOT the Donner cut. I was and still am all for creating an arc from the story points left off int STM and SII, but to tie the story to Donner's cut is just plain stupid.

Actually, I don't see any good news in any of this, and if you do than great for you! However, Singer is a hack! To add to that burden, I'm positive the man does not get Superman because I do not believe the Superman shown in the "vague history" Singer is so fond of promoting would sleep with Lois without telling her is Clark too. Again, this harkens back to Singer just not understanding Superman, so I'm prepared for a sequel that will follow along the dismal, depressing tone he set in SR.

God help us all...

Just because Singer chose to base this ONE film on Donner's doesnt make him a hack. Hes written, directed original stuff before and Brandon said publically that Singer is planning to make the sequel his own.

I dont see the need to get your panties in a twist.


And technically it still IS in "Vague History" with Lester's Superman II. It simply appears to be in a closer, more direct continuity with the Donner cut.

 

[Brainiac 2009]

One would think that Superman would of learnt a lesson known what had happend when he had given up his powers and after his lecture that his father had given him about "abandoning the weak and the helpless for selfish needs" and Superman saying I should of have listen to him.

There was nothing selfish about going on a life or death mission to search for and saved what he believed were the survivors of Krypton.

Superman has a responsibility to protect the entire galaxy and beyond, not just Earth.

Human life isnt worth more than alien life.

 

[Brainiac 2009]

So what, in the Donner movies, Superman just turns back time everytime he can't fix something? Lame.

Yep but watch the cut, it worked her better than the first film because it was more of a twist ending.

He didnt just do it for Lois either.

I believe Superman didnt want Zod and the others to die. He originally destroyed the Fortress so if they did survive the fall, they wouldnt use the Molecular Chambre to become Kryptonians again.

When he reversed time they were back in the Phantom Zone for good.

 

[Brainiac 2009]

The events still happend [Expect know one but Sups knows] Lois doesn't remember, but she still feels like something big happend .

Again, I feel she does remember. Bosworths acting is very transparent. So I could tell that in that scene she was directed to act as if she knew the truth but was hiding it and lying to Lex Luthor.

I hope the sequel has more flashbacks than just Return to Krypton. They can easily clarify these few details if they wanted to.

 

[Brainiac 2009]

oh, and in SR, when Clark comes back to the farm, didn't his mom say something like, "You can't stop the world from spinning?" I thought that was supposed to be an homage to what happened in S1? Sort of like a joking reference....

I noticed that, its a deleted scene. She said that and Clark gives her a weird look. I dont think she knew Superman could reverse time anyway.

Then Clark, looking frusterated, picked up a baseball and spinned it on the table like spinning the Earth.....a reference to him wishing he could have turned back these 5 years, obviously he can't.

Reeve's Superman simply turned back Earth a few hours.

 

[GarudA]

There was nothing selfish about going on a life or death mission to search for and saved what he believed were the survivors of Krypton. .

Survivors? The planet blew up, it had been many many years. Do you not think that a advance race of Kryptonians who had survived for SO LONG needed help WELL after Krypton had gone? Superman did not know for sure of anything, Why did he not think about what would happen to earth while he was going on a MAYBE? Unless he had recieved a SOS message which I doubt. What he did was selfish and stupid

Superman has a responsibility to protect the entire galaxy and beyond, not just Earth.

Then Superman should be traveling around in space like the USS Enterprise searching for the needy. Where do you get this crap from?

Human life isnt worth more than alien life

What the?

 

[Brainiac 2009]

Survivors? The planet blew up, it had been many many years. Do you not think that a advance race of Kryptonians who had survived for SO LONG needed help WELL after Krypton had gone? Superman did not know for sure of anything, Why did he not think about what would happen to earth while he was going on a MAYBE? Unless he had recieved a SOS message which I doubt. What he did was selfish and stupid

Originally they had written it so there was evidence that Krypton (or Argo City or whatever) was intact with Survivors. False information that Lex planted.

Superman had to go to them.

But all of that was cut later on along with the Return to Krypton sequence. My guess is they are using Brainiac as the person who wanted to lure Kal-El to Krypton (instead of Lex) and use the Return to Krypton sequence as a flashback of Brainiac's origins (saving 10 mil).

If thats the case, it wouldnt be the first time Brainiac has manipulated Superman. He has done it in every single incarnation.

Regardless, Superman's intentions were not selfish at all.

 

[Matt]

The events still happend [Expect know one but Sups knows] Lois doesn't remember, but she still feels like something big happend .

Thats not turning back time, that is altering someone's memory. Turning back time would be going back and preventing something. He couldn't go back in time and have sex with Lois while preventing her from remembering. Hell, to do that WOULD be date rape.

 

[GarudA]

Originally they had written it so there was evidence that Krypton (or Argo City or whatever) was intact with Survivors. False information that Lex planted.

Superman had to go to them.

But all of that was cut later on along with the Return to Krypton sequence. My guess is they are using Brainiac as the person who wanted to lure Kal-El to Krypton (instead of Lex) and use the Return to Krypton sequence as a flashback of Brainiac's origins (saving 10 mil).

If thats the case, it wouldnt be the first time Brainiac has manipulated Superman. He has done it in every single incarnation.

Regardless, Superman's intentions were not selfish at all.

This was not in Superman Returns, I am looking at the final version of SR, not the scenes that were not included in SR. It was written, but was not included. What we do know is he went out looking to confirm that Krypton had really gone and that their were no Survivors. It is still a selfish act when looking at the information we get from SR(Hardly any at ll).

 

[Brainiac 2009]

This is was not in Superman Returns, I am looking at the final version of SR, not the scenes that were not included in SR. It was written, but was not included. What we do know is he went out looking to confirm that Krypton had really gone and that their were no Survivors. It is still a selfish act when looking at the information we get from SR(Hardly any at ll).

SR left it purposely vague cutting those scenes out. All I can tell you is wait for the sequel for more answers before jumping the gun on Part one.

Singer clearly cut Lex as the one responsible for this out for a reason and cut the stuff about the fabricated DNA evidence.

I strongly feel whatever villian will be in the sequel will be tied to this (allowing the RtK sequence to be intergrated in). The writers already said that the sequel would focus on his Kryptonian heritage and being an orphan of his dead world.........my money is still on Brainiac being tied to this (not because Routh mentioned everyone wants Brainiac but because it just seems logical here).