First of all, what is personal? Personal is I´m saying you´re an idiot, your´mom´s a ****e, etc., and I never did such things. The topic here is writing skills, it´s YOU who´s taking a comment on that topic as something personal.
No, those are insults. Are insults personal? Sure, but that's not the only way to be personal about something in a debate. Go look up the definition if you don't know what it means. I consider bringing my personal dialogue writing into a debate, without discussing the issue that was set forth on its own merits, to be personal. There's no real reason for you to bring it up. My dialogue is not the issue here. And if you were attempting to imply that you think I am impaired in my ability to judge decent dialogue because of the quality of my own, then you should have provided some examples.
There´s no self-*****iating here, all I´m saying is I am a paid professional that has achieved a certain level of accomplishment, as such I would even be entitled to be a harsh critic on other pieces of work, but I don´t find that helpful.
Entitled how? Because you write a children's educational comic book? Because you're a professional? Who cares? Britney Spears is a professional entertainer who has sold far more albums that many of the greatest singers in the world ever will. Should I take her opinion of music above theirs, or of someone else's, on the basis of sheer numbers?
There's no need to say "I have so many copies sold, I have so many readers" to make your point. I don't think that professional experience neccessarily equals an ability to properly judge quality. All you really had to say, had that been your aim, was "I am a paid professional writer", and, if you could, give EXAMPLES of why you think this writing is anything impressive. But you didn't do that. You went on and on about your own accomplishments.
Or the point is you don´t express yourself well. Which is a pretty reasonable explanation when you get "misinterpreted" all the time.
I didn't say I was misinterpreted. People here tend to only interpret one part of what I say. That does not surprise me, because people here tend to think in very polarized, and very black and white terms.
And how can we say the movie "adapts every cliché" when it´s just fifteen or so pages of script, probably from an early draft? That´s a big part of your problem, you constantly write pages and pages of complaints about things that actually amount to a small part of the whole.
I'm pretty sure an intelligent person could figure out I was referring to the actual excerpts we've read.
I´ll wait till we get to the actual finalized scene of the bank robbery, with all context and actual dialogue that goes to the screen, to see if it deserves such bile.
If the final product is better, then great. However, if the bank manager makes an awkward speech about morality intersecting with criminality, I'm still going to loathe it. All I'm judging right now is the dialogue AS IT EXISTS in THIS PARTICULAR DRAFT.
Nobody said anything about giving free passes. I never said it was all perfect or spectacular, just don´t think it deserves the level of harshness in which you expressed yourself.
The only harshness I've expressed (other than the sequence with the bank manager and the judge) is that it's not impressive. That it's somewhat average, and that a few sequences just ring completely false. And you consider that harsh?
I like how the Chief keeps saying "Son". Three, four times on one page, I believe.
These excerpts aren't terrible. But they're not that impressive, either. The context is somewhat obvious, so the dialogue doesn't get a pass for that. The only line that's given me any rise at all is "It's rude to stare", simply because I can imagine the moment. Everything else feels recycled from other movies or feels like a cop drama cliche. The Bank Managers dialogue in particular, is simply awful. So is the Judge's. And past that...I see a lot of elements that might as well be the writer going "Hey, let's steal this idea from this movie".
Sam Hamm's original BATMAN 2 (BATMAN RETURNS) script utilized The Sons of Batman thematic. I find it somewhat interesting that it shows up here in the context of another Batman sequel.
Does that mean it has to be boring and predictable? Not all thugs and dealers are complete cliche-ridden bumblers.
Originality. It's very predictable, very pedestrian dialogue. That manages to not sound like normal people talking. Several of these characters speak as if they know they're in a movie, with clever barbs and oneliners worked into their conversations.
I'd tend to agree. The dialogue here is a bit stiff, somewhat clunky, and overall, a tad unrealistic. And some of it is just lousy. Real people just don't talk like this. Cops don't always speak in cop cliches, and thugs always don't speak in thug cliches. And quite honestly, if that's the best portrayal we're going to get for the mob...
Not worried just yet, but not impressed.
I don't consider that harsh. I consider it honest. And given some of the massive overreactions to the "brilliance" of the writing here...I don't think it's all that uncalled for.
Because the actual point of the scene is to illustrate the distaste that old world criminals have for the anarchic behavior of the new blood. Whether it's overwritten or written poorly is up for debate, but the reason for the scene is obvious.
I know. And assuming they explore that, it's a nice angle. Again, I said the context was obvious. And that was never an issue with me. The issue I have is with the overpresentational, speechlike nature of the dialogue. And the absurdity of it coming from a criminal to begin with.
Exactly. The mafia cares a great deal about honor and contracts and rules. It's an ORGANIZATION. They have a specific way of operating, and yes, as a matter of fact, old mafia guys are often disgusted by the behavior of the street gangs, for instance, or the behavior of the younger set of thugs. Mafia guys are odd like that.
Guys like the Joker have no sense of honor. And they're scarier and far more dangerous than any Carmine Falcone or Sal Maroni. If you've been a part of that old system, and you're watching it fall apart at the hands of guys like the Joker... you're going to have the same perspective as an old man watching reckless children bung up his world.
It's been known to lead to speeches about morality, on occasion.
How nice that they're showing us this honorable side of the mafia in THE DARK KNIGHT after ignoring it completely in BATMAN BEGINS.
I'm aware of this aspect of the mob. But do they always speak in such poor dialogue? And if they do...do you want to see this overpresentational dialogue in a film representation of this concept? Oh, I hope the actor wrings his hands as he says those lines...
